The Need for a Real Seed Bank and a standardized seed storage technique

[zamalito]

I guess the title is pretty self explanatory. By a Real seed bank I'm talking about something similar to the vavilov institute or the many other botanical genetic preservation groups located throughout the world. What would we do if the colombian govt started spraying genetically modified fusarium or hemp pollen. This isn't a stretch a strain of fusarium has already been engineered for spraying coca in colombia. Fortunately Environmentalists have been succesfful in preventing the use of this however it's just a matter of time before they come up with something that they'll be able to use without creating public outrage. I believe the save the seeds project mentioned on the front page to this website may be exactly what's needed. The problem is it takes serious money to acquire large amounts of landrace seed at the source then conduct breeding programs to propagate the seed. The save the seeds project may very possibly be the first such attempt at this type of project to have adequate resources to do so properly.

On to seed storage techniques. Since may of us who work on preservation don't have the money or resources to do true cryogenic seed storage alternate methods are necesary for the preservationist on a tight budget. Here's some ideas:

I've read that the best dessicant for this purpose is called molecular sieve. Its a chemical mixture that attracts polar molecules especially water. Molecular sieve can be purchased in packets similar to that of silica gel. Another useful packet to seal up with your seeds is an oxygen absorber packet. O2 is very reactive and perhaps I'm wrong but I assume it can be harmful to the shelf life of seeds. O2 absorber also comes in packets similar to silica gel. After drying the seeds as thoroughly as possible the seeds should be vacuum sealed with the above mentioned packets preferably in a heat sealable mylar bag. I use a food saver vacuum sealer which unfortunately won't vacuum mylar foil bags but will heat seal them. However the seeds can be vacuum sealed with desiccant and O2 absorber in the standard bags then that bag can be placed in a mylar bag which has had all the air removed from it with either your hands or using a straw and your mouth then heat sealed with the food saver. This bag is then placed in the refrigerator at approx 10 degrees fahrenheit. I've read that every 5% humidity removed from the seed storage environment can increase shelf life one year. Anyways I'd love to hear anyones experiences thoughts and ideas for seed storage, or creating a true seedbank for cannabis genetics.

 

[Guest]

. I believe the save the seeds project mentioned on the front page to this website may be exactly what's needed. The problem is it takes serious money to acquire large amounts of landrace seed at the source then conduct breeding programs to propagate the seed. The save the seeds project may very possibly be the first such attempt at this type of project to have adequate resources to do so properly.

Yes I believe so too, that GN has a lot of the tools do do this properly is beyond doubt. He also has the name and contacts to bring in industry support for such a project. He and the ICMag team are already travelling the four corners of the globe for their articles on Cannabis cultures, so it is not a big stretch to start the collection of genetics at source in a 'professional' manner.

To have the magazine to document these cultures and strains in is also a fantastic tool to to show these traditional plants and the people who created them. This needs preserving and sharing too, their traditional cultivation methods, uses and environments.

From there to a Seedbank that stores genetics is also not a huge step and these genetics would also be real preservation quality, collected from plants in the field and stored without a assecion being made. Gypsy has invested in the past in purpose built seed storage units for Seedbay. These are In Amsterdam, but there could be better places for them longer term, but for sure seed storage there is as good as can be for the short/medium term. Its also a recognised legal business so it is very safe, a lot safer than sat in the refrigerator of a grower or breeder.

We must think also of ways of 'backing up' the genetics that are collected by any such a project in alternative places, in other professionally managed seedbanks. I think this is much more likely to be able to happen when presenting correctly documented Landraces sourced in country of origin in sufficient quantities. Not a few hundred seeds but thousands. At least a very strong case could be presented to the 'world seedbank' or the 'Valivov institute' and the 'IHA' and If seed could be deposited in these Seedbanks then we would be a long way to safe storage of genetics for the future.

I use a food saver vacuum sealer which unfortunately won't vacuum mylar foil bags but will heat seal them. However the seeds can be vacuum sealed with desiccant and O2 absorber in the standard bags then that bag can be placed in a mylar bag which has had all the air removed from it with either your hands or using a straw and your mouth then heat sealed with the food saver. This bag is then placed in the refrigerator at approx 10 degrees fahrenheit. I've read that every 5% humidity removed from the seed storage environment can increase shelf life one year.

Im thinking if it was me there in the field working i would want to be in and out of their in as fast a time as possible to allow the job to be done in documenting and collection. Drying i have thought might be the hardest thing to accomplish without long term curing to reduce moisture content to the right levels. In the field this is not going to be possible I don't think. Also the seed stock must all be perfectly cleaned in situ with all seeds checked. You cant risk all that collection effort for having traces of THC on packs etc. This could also be done at the local base camp of course but still there is a curing issue. It would be best as i understand it to get them to the temp and the environment they will be stored in as soon as is possible.

It would be great to build a accepted model for Cannabis genetics collection.

Anyways I'd love to hear anyones experiences thoughts and ideas for seed storage, or creating a true seedbank for cannabis genetics.

Yes it sounds like Gypsy is doing just that. Very exciting i think. Great to see a attempt such as this which has resource and tools to do this work. Gypsy has also been sharing seeds freely from his travels with the community in the past, so im sure he will be doing so again too so they can be multiplied and conserved, i cant wait!!

Peace, hhf

 

[DarkGreen]

Dank Bank

Dank Bank

That's a good idea....it would be cool to have a bank for buds too.

I saw something called the Dank Bank in Seattle. I believe you can put your bud in there for storage, trade, buy, sell, etc......it was mentioned in issue #63 Nov/Dec Cannabis Culture. It would be great if you could do that with seeds, buds, and hash/oil. That actually said that the bud they kept had the same taste several months later down the road.

 

[fjällhöga]

Contact me if i can help you Zamalito

 

[Guest]

Its a bit later more people are on, bump

consider this slot reserverd ill edit when i have a real contribution, untill then i await others

 

[Nept]

bump :|

 

[simple]

i have had this idea in my head several times but have always dismissed it as too far fetched to happen. hopefully people will realize how important and amazing this plant is in all the variation it is cappable of before it is too late. i think this needs to happen and im happy to hear of gypsys efforts and will suport it 100%.

 

[southwind]

Something like this

Something like this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6335899.stm

 

[DocLeaf]

i n i remind people that picking wild flowers (or the seed from) isn't smart!

Preserving cultivated (landrace) varieties of cannabis is however a praise worthy cause.

As an annual cannabis seed need to be sown to be preserved, IMO.

Count us in

erb, roots, n culture
dLeaf

 

[exactlywatt]

Thanks for the seed storage tips zamalito. I'm just using silica jell and rice in a glass jar, in the dark. Aren't some home refrigerators high in humidity?

 

[Rgd]

Humidity in a fridge is not
good for seed storage.
vacuum packed in freezer is a
better idea.

 

[zamalito]

Exactly watt; Yeah , many refrigerators are very high in humidity. I have desiccant bag made for refrigerators it works ok but I live in the south where the humidity can be extremely unreasonable at times. That's one reason why I started this thread. Its very hard yet also very important to be able to store seeds for long periods.

 

[Slim Pickens]

Southwind:
I saw that news bit as well,very timely issue.


As far as Fusarium goes,wasn't it a strain of that bacteria that Mark Souder R-Indiana had recommended to eradicate Cannabis?I'd have to look around,but it also seems that it could mutate to effect other crops as well,and could do serious damage to food crops.Can you believe the absolute stupidity that is practiced by our governments?Trying to eradicate naturally occuring crops,and allowing the Pharm companies to operate with impunity...unbelievable.

On Edit:I found that article about Fusarium:

Call for bio war on drugs:

Congressman Mark Souder has been busy in his personal war on drugs. As well as fighting against the legalisation of cannabis for medical use (see below), the Indiana Republican has slipped a provision into a bill calling for the fungus Fusarium oxysporum to be used as a biological control agent against drug crops in foreign countries.

The CIA, however, has had moral doubts about using the fungus. In 2000, a CIA official told The New York Times that it was unsafe both for humans and for the environment: "I don't support using a product on a bunch of Colombian peasants that you wouldn't use against a bunch of rednecks growing marijuana in Kentucky."

The Department of Agriculture and the Drug Enforcement Agency agree. Fusarium species are highly prone to mutation, so they can readily change hosts and infect plants they were not supposed to. This was the main reason Florida's Department of Environmental Protection rejected the fungus in 1999 as a biocontrol agent for use on outdoor marijuana crops.

The House of Representatives proposal to use F. oxysporum in biocontrol is not included in the Senate version of the bill, which concerns the office of the US "drug czar", and a committee will now meet to decide on the final version.

Meanwhile, Bausch & Lomb recalled a contact-lens solution last week amid fears that it is associated with the spread of an eye disease across the US. The disease is caused by F. oxysporum.

The full article is here:

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/opinion/mg19025492.900.html

 

[southwind]

fear

fear

Yes Slim

I am in agreement, it is very scary what bio controls are considered for use.

It would be next to impossible to assure that any virus or funus would not mutate and effect other crops. Corn and Tobacco are particularly susceptible to new types.

You can see why those industries would be opposed to using them, so in a way big business can protect other species like Cannabis by lobbying against plant biocontols.

If any Government would be so foolish as to use a biological agent against plants merely for the control of a drug or drugs with the potential for mutation
to occur and attack world food supplies that government would deserve any censure any boycott any attack that humans can muster.

It would could be tantamount to disaster. period.

We as humans DO NOT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT LIFE TO USE BIOLOGICAL AGENTS.


Trust me, my closest brother worked for the Department of Health for a time.

There are already things going on that are not reported enough and are very frightening.

v.e.r.y f.r.i.g.h.t.e.n.i.n.g.

Southwind

 

[Guest]

If any Government would be so foolish as to use a biological agent against plants merely for the control of a drug or drugs with the potential for mutation
to occur and attack world food supplies that government would deserve any censure any boycott any attack that humans can muster.

Fusarium is already a massive threat...it is already released.

What is fusarium? This is nicked from an agriculture research site.
----------------
Taxonomy: Vascular wilt fungus; Ascomycete although sexual stage is yet to be found. The most closely related teleomorphic group, Gibberella, is classified within the Pyrenomycetes.

Host range: Very broad at the species level. More than 120 different formae speciales have been identified based on specificity to host species belonging to a wide range of plant families.

Disease symptoms: Initial symptoms of vascular wilt include vein clearing and leaf epinasty, followed by stunting, yellowing of the lower leafs, progressive wilting of leaves and stem, defoliation and finally death of the plant. In cross-sections of the stem, a brown ring is sometimes evident in the area of the vascular bundles. Some formae speciales are not primarily vascular pathogens but cause foot and rootrot or bulbrot.

Economic importance: Causes severe losses on most vegetables and flowers, several field crops such as cotton and tobacco, plantation crops such as banana, plantain, coffee and sugarcane, and a few shade trees.

Disease control: Use of resistant varieties is the only practical measure for controlling the disease in the field.

Under greenhouse conditions, soil sterilization can be performed. Alternative control methods with potential for the future include soil solarization and biological control with antagonistic bacteria or fungi.
----------------

General back ground info, in the resent past both the USA and Russia have been putting millions a year to develop new strains of fusarium oxysporum as biological weapons to spray on enemies crops. The USA are still working on it and have also been trying to develop a form of fusarium specific to cannabis, the idea being to eradicate the entire genus from the planet or at least parts of it.

Things that can reduce the risk of infecting your plants. It is obvious that a large proportion of imported bud from Europe is from infected plants. Just touching bud and then touching a plant can infect the plant, smoking a joint of infected bud anywhere near cannabis plants can infect them. It can be carried in infected clones.

It is also now here in grow rooms in the uk, it is going to spread. You have been warned.

oldtimer1. .

 

[longshot]

Hi all,
The idea of a seed bank is a good one indeed...problem is, who do you trust?
To my mind more than one cache of landrace seeds needs to be kept in perfect 'laboratory' conditions to ensure the future of these genes. Is there no way of getting the seeds into a seed bank containing all sorts of plants, in the best storage conditions possible? We could probably never accesss them again...but at least they'd be safe there!
So, I agree that home storage is the way for us at the moment and a standardised storage technique is a brilliant idea. Much has been said about dessicants and humidity already, I know from bitter experience how bad a fridge can be for storing seeds, but nobody has mentioned anything about fungicides. Many of us prefer to use organics and the idea of putting nasty chemicals on our precious seeds is unappealing, to say the least, but is long term seed storage an area where we should be looking to fungicides to protect our seeds from fungal attacks?

 

[dankiestog]

The final design for a "doomsday" vault that will house seeds from all known varieties of food crops has been unveiled by the Norwegian government. this has got to be the greatest idea what a great gov. They better put my fav Plants seeds in there i think its a food, please . Thanks for the storage tips and keep the movement alive...the powers in all of are hands..

 

[Harpo]

Its' baloney season again!

The Norwegian government has revealed the architectural design for the Svalbard International Seed Vault, to be carved deep into frozen rock on an island not far from the North Pole.

There are real seed banks out there. More than one university has collections of wild and domestic grains and other plant foods already in storage. This has been going on for decades. It is nothing new.

This Ark baloney is designed to focus on Global Warming. Why? Because Norway stands to be greatly enriched if the Kyoto Treaty ever becomes enforced.

The Kyoto Treaty would have the USA paying places like Norway and other low emitters of greenhouse gasses to buy up their unused quota of greenhouse gases for our own use.

Of course all the small and developing countries of the world can continue to clear cut their forests, pollute, dump hazardous wastes and increase their own output of greenhouse gases at any rate they can manage. The Kyoto Treaty says nothing about this. . .

Maybe if they made the Kyoto Treaty more fair for everyone things might be different. . .

If they did make things fair and even handed, where would all the industries escaping America and its stringent pollution, minimum wage and child work laws go?

We are in an interglacial period. Water levels have been raising for the last ten thousand years. Something like 300 feet to date. Scientist predict another couple of feet increase in water levels in the next hundred years.

The earth is not about to be flooded out. More evidence this Ark business is pure hype. . .

Things warm up. The ice recedes. Water levels rise. Then it gets cold again and the process reverses. Cycle after cycle for millions and millions of years.

The earth gets warmer and colder , with or without humanities help. A thousand years ago, grapes were grown comerically three hundred miles further north in europe than is managed today. It was warmer then than it is now. Scientist find ancient sea ports under water and in deserts. Things change with time. People adapt or perish.

With warmth, Biodiversity increases. With increased warmth, the land can grow and support many more animals and plants per acre than when everything is frozen.

Instead of frozen tundra or a solid ice sheet with a few animals struggeling to survive, you get entire forests moving north and lots of different critters get a chance at life.

Norway will be able to grow re-grow their forests and lots of different foods will be able to thrive with increased warmth and increased CO2 levels. To survive, Norway will no longer have to plunder the oceans fisheries, which I understand are about to collapse from over fishing.

However, too bad, so sad if you are a polar bear. . .

 

[Guest]

The idea of a seed bank is a good one indeed...problem is, who do you trust?
To my mind more than one cache of landrace seeds needs to be kept in perfect 'laboratory' conditions to ensure the future of these genes. Is there no way of getting the seeds into a seed bank containing all sorts of plants, in the best storage conditions possible?

Yes. That is exactly as i understand it one of Gypsy's aims with the Save the Strains project. If he and the ICMag team go to these areas and collect the strains with appropriate documentation of them it is possible they may be able to push for space within these world class storage facilities for these genetics. When presenting them with important genetics and correct documentation i would think it is definitely possible.

As well as keeping them in the community for ongoing preservation and working with.

But the collection and correct documentation is the first step i think.

Peace, hhf

 

[acespicoli]

I'm with you Zamalito on this seed saving quest! Open source free use genetics and preservation best way to accomplish this is a breeder collective in my opinion. Check out seedsavers. org as a example of what is possible. The other thing is all these different strains have different medicinal properties which need to be preserved. If you start this support will grow