The myth, of the high P myth?

[tester]

1% THC means : out of 100 grams cannabis 1 gram is THC while 99 gram is something else (plant material, leafs, stalk...)

Botrytis doesn't have to raise the actual amount of THC to raise the THC content. The same thing happens if it lowers the amount of plant material without touching the THC. (eating away tissues, sucking moisture etc)

In grapes it punctures holes in the peel of the grape, sucking away moisture lowering the water content. This is why the sugar content appears to be higher relative to water content while the amount of sugar remains the same.

Could be also related to defense mechanisms.

 

[YosemiteSam]

By that logic mites could also raise the % of thc.

But nice analysis. I did not look at it that way.

 

[spurr]

This was grown with Low P from start to finish...not to mention I didnt flush and my plants taste and smoke 10x better then b4

Spurr thanks for saving me a tons on nutes....and better yet..thanks for helping me pump out real dank!

was that with spurs 5/5/5/5 ? what was your rough gpw?

I think I can answer that one for him:

Yes, AFAIK that was with my other-older mix of 5 ml GH-M/5ml GH-G/5ml GH-B/5 ml CalMag Plus; but he uses ~7 ml Pro-TeKt instead of 2.5 ml and no Epsom Salt, so he gets more Si and K, with less Mg and S. He also uses kelp extract and I think fulvic acid in-between fertigations, but I could be wrong and maybe it's only kelp extract.

No flushing, but also not adding fertilizers to water every time watering, no overkill of ferts so there is often no need to flush.

He may have spayed those plants with MDHJ (methyl dihydrojasmonate), as "Jaz Rose Spray", which effects MeJa (methyl jasomonate) endogenously (in plant tissue); whereby increasing and/or potentating endogenous MeJA). And it's MeJa that is one key factor in trichome formation, without MeJa plants cannot for trichomes, IIRC. The reason I am going on and on about this, is exogenous application (ex. foliar spray) of MeJA or MDHJ (or even JA) will increase trichome formation (i.e., trichome density), as well as production of some terpens/terpenoids. The increase in trichome density (# of trichomes per X leaf area, normally an area of a millimeter^2) can be quite drastic. So if he did use Jaz on those plants, I am not sure we can say increased P wouldn't have increased trichome density (as YS seems to be possibly claiming ...YS?). If he didn't use Jaz on those plants, then its better evidence (vs if he did use Jaz) that high P isn't needed for high trichome density.

 

[spurr]

I figured some more pics would be good for this thread. Here are some pics of GrapeGod feminized (F4?) from NextGeration Seeds. At ~53 ppm P now, never higher, ~39 pm until about two weeks ago; still using my mix. I think they are at week 3 or 4 after they were changed to 12/12. The color of the leafs is a bit off in the pics vs what it really is, I had to use flash and a 400 mh in some pics. The main HID was turned off about an hour before the pics, that made the leafs settle/drop a little.

I am going to give them their last trim tomorrow, there are some bud sites too low in the canopy and some older leafs, that gotta go.

I had two issues so far this grow, at one point my heater I use at night to decrease DIF, was pumping hot at right into the canopy every night, it really messed with some of the plants until I realized what was happening. And my Pro-TeKt seems to have 'gone bad', it's full of solids and other things, I think it may have cause phytotoxicity. I now am forced to use Dutch Master Gold Range Silica.


B.C. God Bud leaning phenos:

Grapefruit leaning phenos:

 

[Overthinker]

I figured some more pics would be good for this thread.

Spot on.

Everything looks very nice!

 

[Storm Shadow]

I think I can answer that one for him:

Yes, AFAIK that was with my other-older mix of 5 ml GH-M/5ml GH-G/5ml GH-B/5 ml CalMag Plus; but he uses ~7 ml Pro-TeKt instead of 2.5 ml and no Epsom Salt, so he gets more Si and K, with less Mg and S. He also uses kelp extract and I think fulvic acid in-between fertigations, but I could be wrong and maybe it's only kelp extract.

No flushing, but also not adding fertilizers to water every time watering, no overkill of ferts so there is often no need to flush.

He may have spayed those plants with MDHJ (methyl dihydrojasmonate), as "Jaz Rose Spray", which effects MeJa (methyl jasomonate) endogenously (in plant tissue); whereby increasing and/or potentating endogenous MeJA). And it's MeJa that is one key factor in trichome formation, without MeJa plants cannot for trichomes, IIRC. The reason I am going on and on about this, is exogenous application (ex. foliar spray) of MeJA or MDHJ (or even JA) will increase trichome formation (i.e., trichome density), as well as production of some terpens/terpenoids. The increase in trichome density (# of trichomes per X leaf area, normally an area of a millimeter^2) can be quite drastic. So if he did use Jaz on those plants, I am not sure we can say increased P wouldn't have increased trichome density (as YS seems to be possibly claiming ...YS?). If he didn't use Jaz on those plants, then its better evidence (vs if he did use Jaz) that high P isn't needed for high trichome density.

Couldnt have said it better myself bro...no MEJA on these plants...as they were grown from seed...I only use MEJA on plants I have grown b4 so I can see if the product is doing me any good....

 

[Dave Coulier]

Your ladies look great Spurr.

I had the same problem with my Pro-Tek too. I threw it out as well. Im using Pro-Silicate now, and still have the white solids in the bottom of container but not nearly as bad as Pro-Tek.

Have you ever gotten any Cal/Mag mixed in with it? Cal/Mag added to Protek or ProSilicate causes white gooey globules to form. Sorta looks like you know what.

 

[ShroomDr]

Here is a Bogglegum, minutes before harvest, after 64 extended dark periods. She was trellised, creating a vertical plain, to take advantage of vertical lighting, using bamboo stakes and 4" zipties. She creates somewhat (6.5-7/10) dense golf ball buds.

Been running GH 6+9 for months and months (maybe a year now), and i think im about to start experimenting a little more.

FWIW

GH Flora Micro @6mL/Gal = 97N 0P 16K 97Ca 1.9Fe +
GH Flora Bloom @9mL/Gal = 0N 60P 91K 41Mg

6+9 = 97N 60P 107K 41Mg 97Ca 1.9Fe

*I will drop the Micro to 5mL half the time, it all depends on how 'green' the girls are compared to their flowering age. Sometimes i think it should be always at 5mL and i should just foliar Cal-Mag the first 2-3 weeks.

*I also get added K from Pro Tek Si, and i re-use my coco, im sure there is K breaking down into the mix, although i have no idea the level.

*i was adding carbs, up to 10mL/Gal of Sweet, and 15mL of the GH equivalent. They are sugars, but they are also MgS (read: epsom salts). Im not sure i noticed a difference using them, so i have currently dropped this type of supplement.

i was thinking of bumping the Bloom level to 10 or 11mL, just to experment and see how my familiar phenos respond. If it starts to raise my EC, i will discontinue, but it has always appeared to me that the Micro was the one raising my EC (When i dont add the extra 1mL, the EC is normally stable or slightly falling).

Just my observations...

 

[DonkDBZ]

i ran heads 6/9 for 2 runs. plants were healthy, buds were frosty and smoked great.....but not big and chunky. The 3rd run I added silica, bud candy, and big bud on week 2 and shit came out awsome.

 

[DonkDBZ]

Loving the internode spacing with low P

spurs recipe with couple of tweeks

day 10 flower


the slight cal/mag problem was from some root aphids. i gave em bayer and botanigard week before i flipped

 

[spurr]

I think I can answer that one for him:

Yes, AFAIK that was with my other-older mix of 5 ml GH-M/5ml GH-G/5ml GH-B/5 ml CalMag Plus; but he uses ~7 ml Pro-TeKt instead of 2.5 ml and no Epsom Salt, so he gets more Si and K, with less Mg and S. He also uses kelp extract and I think fulvic acid in-between fertigations, but I could be wrong and maybe it's only kelp extract.

No flushing, but also not adding fertilizers to water every time watering, no overkill of ferts so there is often no need to flush.

He may have spayed those plants with MDHJ (methyl dihydrojasmonate), as "Jaz Rose Spray", which effects MeJa (methyl jasomonate) endogenously (in plant tissue); whereby increasing and/or potentating endogenous MeJA). And it's MeJa that is one key factor in trichome formation, without MeJa plants cannot for trichomes, IIRC. The reason I am going on and on about this, is exogenous application (ex. foliar spray) of MeJA or MDHJ (or even JA) will increase trichome formation (i.e., trichome density), as well as production of some terpens/terpenoids. The increase in trichome density (# of trichomes per X leaf area, normally an area of a millimeter^2) can be quite drastic. So if he did use Jaz on those plants, I am not sure we can say increased P wouldn't have increased trichome density (as YS seems to be possibly claiming ...YS?). If he didn't use Jaz on those plants, then its better evidence (vs if he did use Jaz) that high P isn't needed for high trichome density.

Hey look at that - Spurr has hijacked the thread. Please substantiate your broadly sweeping claims based on a loose post hoc assumption = hypothesis to substantiate preheld assumption = probably incorrect

Huh? I hijacked nothing. All I did was answer a question for an ICmag member.

If you are referring to the topic of MeJa (jasmonates), I didn't hijack this thread on that topic either. I merely wrote about it because if SS did spray with jasmonates the topic of P and trichome density would not have been as relevant.

The rest of your post claiming I am using hypothesis and assumption is wrong and inaccurate. I really don't know where that came from, nor why you are so 'hard out of the gate'. What I wrote about jasmonates is factual, it's not assumption or hypothesis. If you wish to learn more read the PGR threads in the science sub-forum, within the jasmonates thread specifically I provided lots of info. I know of at least a half a dozen people who have tested jasmonates (mostly as MDHJ from Jaz spray) on cannabis, with the results always the same.

SS was the first one to bring jasmonates to my attention some time ago, re trichome production. Then I went from there and did a ton of research on the topic. Next SS and I tested jasmonates, and then I started threads about it and SS posted his experiences, and other people tested it. Now there is a little movement with respect to jasmonates; IMO within the next couple of years most all growers will be using jasmonates to increase trichome density and (some) terpene/terpenoid production (re smell).

 

[spurr]

Who? ABC, or was that XYZ, or LSD?!

(^^ j/k about acronyms, re 'SS, YS and WFT' )

 

[spurr]

Loving the internode spacing with low P

spurs recipe with couple of tweeks

day 10 flower


the slight cal/mag problem was from some root aphids. i gave em bayer and botanigard week before i flipped

Nice, looking good so far.

May I ask what "tweeks" you use from my mix? And which mix of mine are you using as your base? My first mix of 5 ml GH-Gro/5 ml GH-Micro/5 ml GH-Bloom/5 ml CalMag Plus/2.5 ml Pro-TeKt or my current test mix of 5/5/7 (GH Gro/Micro/Bloom) along with CalMag Plus, Pro-TeKt (or other source of Si), and Epsom salt?

 

[spurr]

oh yea, DonkDBZ,

What media type do you use? Is it coco and perlite, IIRC?

P.S. got your PM, I'm will respond today.

 

[spurr]

i ran heads 6/9 for 2 runs. plants were healthy, buds were frosty and smoked great.....but not big and chunky. The 3rd run I added silica, bud candy, and big bud on week 2 and shit came out awsome.

Yea, Si and additional K for the win! I am not sure what is in "bud candy", I assume Epsom salt and carbs?

 

[ShroomDr]

Correct, bud candy is MgS and carbs.

DonkDBZ claim is essentially based on the big bud.

 

[spurr]

Hey Shroom,

I agree, however, adding Si increases yield and growth in many plants, I have found that bears out with cannabis, too. The internode spacing seems shorter with addition of Si, esp. during bud set, buds seem denser, IMO/IME.

In regard to big bud, I think it's the K that is helping, not the P. That is why I wrote "Si and additional K for the win". And I agree the biggest benefit for DonkDBZ's plants was probably coming from sufficient level of K after addition of big bud. If the mix already has sufficient K however, ex., ~180-200+ ppm, I doubt adding big bud would be all the helpful (re efficacy), may even be detrimental in terms of cation ratios, etc.

P.S. I noticed your post in the 'optimum environ' thread, I will respond today, as well as to your PM.

 

[ShroomDr]

@spurr that was basically what i was eluding to, i know we both us Si supplements. However you did put it more accurately; as i have never ran the 6+9 without running Si too, perhaps it has a more pronounced effect that i realized. I use it mainly because its suppose to help prevent stress, or more accurately negate negative effects of less than optimal conditions. Ive also read that Si can be substituted for C in the plant tissues. This seems to make sense given their 4 electrons, and they both being members of 'the carbon group'.

-

The more i think about it, im thinking of trying to mix up a GH Flora mix with ~93N ~50P ~150K. Its gonna require a bottle of GH Flora Grow (2-1-6), and as a result, a drop in the Micro application rate. Hmm, im not sure i like that last part.

I wanted to grow with the Technaflora lineup using just their 'boost' and 'grow' bottles (10mL/Gal of both together = 119N 39P 148K, but technaflora is more expensive (FWIW Technaflora adds their micro nutrients to their 'Grow' and 'Bloom' bottles, not the 'Boost'. This makes dropping the N much less worrisome, as the micro nutrients are unaffected, unlike most other mfg lines).

 

[DonkDBZ]

Correct, bud candy is MgS and carbs.

DonkDBZ claim is essentially based on the big bud.

I used the older version of bud candy which was 0-0-1 and the 0-15-40 bigbud.

at 6 micro, 8 bloom, 8 bud candy, 1 gram big bud gave me. 1/2ro and 1/2tap
97n 70p 208k. Could have used more N cause fans look a lil pale

I am using 10-20%coco rest is number 4 perlite

 

[YosemiteSam]

Nice looking plants Donk. Looks like you are gonna get lots of tops.

I am with you on a little more N. I tend to top out at 125.