The myth, of the high P myth?

[Marquis de Sod]

can someone answer me this, and the same goes for compost i left outside all summer getting ten tons of rain thru it but....

when my bag of ewc DRIES OUT completely, is it still good for tea? or did everything good in there die off? thx

 

[danks]

tricantinol is found in bee shit. one of the main ingredients in brix plus and liquid wieght by green planet.

 

[grapeman]

I have heard things like it makes a big difference in the taste of the grapes...is that correct grapeman?

If it does then I suspect it will also change the taste of marijuana. That is why I am interested.

Hmm maybe. Grapes are funny in that we pick at a certain level of soluble solids (sugar) or brix.

The problem arises due to climate and nature. Different years have different acid levels and if someone could figure that out they would be famous & rich. So many variables when you are growing outdoors.

I believe however that adequate K during at the right time helps build sugars. Same as this crop

 

[Dawn Patrol]

I believe however that adequate K during at the right time helps build sugars. Same as this crop

Care to elaborate????

 

[down2grow]

Grapeman,

I remember you mentioning on the AN booster thread that using sulphate of potash would be the same as using big bud and overdrive during flower. At what rates would you add it and what weeks on an 8 week strain? Is there a specific brand you would use? Google brought up a whole bunch of different kinds(0-0-50, 0-08, etc.). Thanks

D2G

 

[grapeman]

K increases sugar production. It's long been used by fruit growers during ripening and in fact crops such as peaches and nectarines are often given a good hit of P and K just prior to harvest to sweeten the fruit. I really can't explain how this happens (probably cause I can't be stuffed reading on it) but a million fruit growers can't be wrong. Hey Grapeman - if you want sweet grapes just dose them with Botrytis (the noble rot)

LOL - do you think we could sell them after that? LOL

I have tried the wine crushed from botrysis grapes.

 

[tester]

Offtopic on Botrytis:

Based on the fact that Botrytis cinerea may rarely cause an allergic reaction and it has no other known negative health effects, it might be even possible to use it to increase relative THC content by decreasing chlorophyll in the effected buds at the end of flowering thereby getting rid of unusable plant material leaving us with more resin and oils.

There's a wine here in Hungary called "Tokaj aszú" which is made with grapes infected by the same mold that also infects cannabis, aka the "grey mold" Botrytis cinerea.
Upon harvest the spores are like dust, grape workers are inhaling huge amounts into their lungs, the infected grapes are also eaten as a delicacy so I don't see any problems associated with smoking Botrytis infected buds other than there might be other mold species but that is unlikely with properly stored buds.
Also, buds that were already infected with Botrytis would be harder to colonize by other mold species because the food is already eaten up by the grey mold and it also has antifungal propereties.

So IMO the only problem with grey mold is if it comes too soon, killing the plant or lowering the yield.

 

[grapeman]

Offtopic on Botrytis:

Based on the fact that Botrytis cinerea may rarely cause an allergic reaction and it has no other known negative health effects, it might be even possible to use it to increase relative THC content by decreasing chlorophyll in the effected buds at the end of flowering thereby getting rid of unusable plant material leaving us with more resin and oils.

There's a wine here in Hungary called "Tokaj aszú" which is made with grapes infected by the same mold that also infects cannabis, aka the "grey mold" Botrytis cinerea.
Upon harvest the spores are like dust, grape workers are inhaling huge amounts into their lungs, the infected grapes are also eaten as a delicacy so I don't see any problems associated with smoking Botrytis infected buds other than there might be other mold species but that is unlikely with properly stored buds.
Also, buds that were already infected with Botrytis would be harder to colonize by other mold species because the food is already eaten up by the grey mold and it also has antifungal propereties.

So IMO the only problem with grey mold is if it comes too soon, killing the plant or lowering the yield.

Who would eat these "infected" grapes?

Aside from the wine made from these infected grapes, I see no other benefit to this infection.

I'm sure you are just trying to look on the bright side.

 

[tester]

The infected grapes are eaten as a delicacy during harvest, I also tried it, tastes like raisins.

I admit that trying to take benefit from grey mold on cannabis is a little extreme idea, but a few years ago this was also the case with grapes too.

But I still don't see any reasons to not smoke infected buds.

 

[roasthawg]

Great thread! Just read through the whole thing. My own personal experience is mostly with H&G which has low P to begin with... in my experience if you run low P you run the risk of airy buds if your N gets too high. I'm constantly battling with slightly yellowing leaves or airy buds... I prefer the battle with a little yellow.

Random question which I would ask somewhere else but I'm hoping to get a couple of the guys in this thread to respond... H&G is tough to dissect as their guaranteed analysis generally only show npk but what do you guys think about budxl? Thanks.

 

[epicseeds]

Wow, haven't been back to this thread in months... this is a gold mine!

 

[LittleAmsterdam]

H&G which has low P to begin with...

YES H&G has low P, but look at Drip Clean. It has a NPK value of 0-19-6 derived from Phosphoric acid and Potassium oxide. Strong Stuff. That's why you use it in such small amounts.

 

[tester]

Tester this is definitely one of your more left of center ideas.

It's far-fetched I admit, but my main point is that grey mold has no known negative health effects other than it can cause an allergic reaction, so there is no big reason to not smoke infected buds. Read my other posts above.

in order to achieve the infection you'd have to create an ideal environment for fungi which also leaves the door wide open I suspect for other fungi which may compete - some of these may be myctoxin forming fungi.

Can you name a couple of species that would infect cannabis plants that are still alive and produce toxins?
Storage molds are an other question.

 

[ShroomDr]

noble rot, great for some wines, but for my ganja, I'll pass. You can keep the corn smut too! The only mold and fungus i like are cheeses, psychotropic boomers, and substrate inoculates.

 

[strictlybongz]

Can you name a couple of species that would infect cannabis plants that are still alive and produce toxins?
Storage molds are an other question.

Aspergillus?

 

[tester]

Group 2 storage fungi are the primary cause of storage
losses—Aspergillus, Penicillium, Rhizopus and Mucor species
(Fig 8.2). "Storage moulds" predominate in storage because
they have evolved as such. They thrive under low oxygen
levels, limited moisture, and intense competition for
substrate.

AFAIK it hasn't been found on living plants, Aspergillus evades after harvest.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I might be changing my mind on the low P myth. This time around I still started at 40 ppm P but at the end of stretch I bumped it to 90 for 2 weeks then down to 60.

I don't think it is going to affect yield much but trich development...that is another story:



Obviously not a big enough sample size to make any type of statistical claim...but it got my attention.

edit..the pic is 6 weeks into flower at 60x.

 

[Storm Shadow]

Ive been using Spurr's Nute Mix and Not only Am I getting better yields....but smell and taste are on another level... Sign me up and for the whole Low P ordeal....

Spurr where are u bro...none of these discussions mean much without your input bro at least to me

 

[YosemiteSam]

You are probably right. They are yellowing out maybe a week early. I was afraid I would lose bud density going higher on NO3...but in retrospect I should trust what I see instead of being stubborn and sticking to a number just cause I wanted to find something out.

Still though...I am quite proud of this grow. I don't even think I can fuck it up now

 

[YosemiteSam]

I worked with 6 sigma too many years to draw a conclusion without proper statistical analysis...being wrong based on loose statistics is worse than just playing a hunch. It forms a paradigm in your mind (cause you think you have science behind your decision when you don't) and that blinds you to true problems/solutions.

But a hunch. I like low P all of the way through stretch.

Beyond that I am not truly sure. Yes I upped the P to 90 and clearly the plants have put on a ton of crystal. some of it is genetics...but not all of it. Even plants I have run several times have more crystal than they ever have. Still I also jumped the K all of the way to 300...so what contribution did that play and is there some kind of interaction between P and K.

For that matter...even if you held environment exactly the same (and I am pretty close with a sealed room) you are still feeding 16 elements so there are 16 factoral different combinations and permutations. In other words every time you change a single thing you have literally changed 100s of different interactions...isolating which one or which combination caused the change you see is very difficult...or impossible.

Even if you locked in everything but N-P-K-Ca-Mg you would be looking at a 5x5 design of experiment and I have never seen anyone do anything that complicated in real life, only on simulations.

So conclusions...no.

Direction??? Well I am debating on the next grow whether to up the NO3 like you suggested when I up the P at the end of stretch...or if I want to play around with the K-Ca-Mg ratio at that point. I am kinda thinking running the Steiner solution for tomatos...it seems to me blossom end rot in tomatos and what happens to fan leaves late in flower look pretty freaking similar...maybe my basic 4-2-1 K-Ca-Mg ratio is not quite right...perhaps 4-3-1 is better?

One thing I know for sure is that something can be improved. The plants are not perfect at this point. Improved significantly yes...perfect...nope.

I am, however, always open to suggestions for trials.