The ice box

[smurfin'herb]

I have been seeing these for a while now being advertised, but havent read much feedback on them. You can view "the ice box" here...http://hydroinnovations.com/product3.htm

This is what they say in urban garden...

"only requires and inline fan and 65 degree water to remove 100% of the heat generated from a 1000 watt bulb."!!!!! Are u kidding me..?

"Using chilled water at least 10 degrees cooler than your growroom will add supplemental a/c to your environment."


These claims seem to be pretty far fetched. Questions that come to my mind are...

How big of a reservoir do you need for each unit considering you had an optimal grow environment and your incoming water was 65-68 degrees..?

Do you need to use r/o or filtered water...? Or will any sink water do..?

Do these require a water cooler in order to operate at full efficiency...?

Does each light need to have its own inline fan, or can you hook multiple lights up in a row while only using one fan..? ( considering each light having its own ice box unit of course). I can only imagine how loud 10 inline fans on 10 lights would sound!!!! lol But then i read this..............................

They say.. "For proper function the Ice Box must be installed on the exiting air duct flange, not the incoming air!"
With this being said, im guessin that these arent made to be used inline with a row/chain of lights (That would mean EACH individual light needs it own inline fan!!!)...? Also, how can you remove 100% of the heat by doing it this way..? Some heat will still exit through the glass lens of the hoods before it can get pushed out and cooled by the ice box is what im thinking... Feedback anyone...?

 

[micro gro]

I'd love to hear about it. But IMO doesn't seem to be worth the mess of setup.

 

[little wing]

Sounds like to many wires. Ever look at the Mills Pride cabnit?

 

[madpenguin]

You just need one inline fan for multiple ice boxes. They are just mini radiators so as long as there is air flow moving between the water cooled fins, they remove heat. For maximum efficiency, if you have 5 1kw lights in a row, you would need 5 ice boxes. One on the exhaust side of each light. But yet still one fan at the tail end of the run. All you need is air flow through them and a fresh supply of cold water running to them.

TBH, unless your recycling the air back into your room, there is no point in using them. Maybe you might want to cool the air down some before it hit the next light I suppose. It would be cheaper to just split your intake duct into 2 runs, then join them back together again right before the fan.

 

[Greyskull]

i've seen them set up, smurf - it doesn't look like something you can chain together becasue of how the 'radiator' needs to sit on the exiting side. maybe there is some after market product add-on they have to allow the integration of multiple lights...

it almost makes those fresca sols seem like a better alternative because you can chain them... just need a lot of water and some water chillers.

hope you find out what you are looking for

 

[Greyskull]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=126342

Hydro Innovations Ice Box



Finally, a safe and very efficient way to water-cool your entire grow room! It consists of a high-quality heat-exchanger with a strong molded plastic housing. One side of the housing is designed to install over a 6" air-cooled reflector duct flange, and as an option the opposite side can be attached to 6" air ducting (depending on inline fan placement). Air from your indoor garden is either pushed or pulled through the reflectors with an inline fan and then passed over the Ice Box heat exchanger. Cold water is circulated through the heat exchanger, cooling the air before it exits right back into the indoor garden area. The longer the tubing the higher the pump. But you don’t want to use too high of a pump, due to the fact that it may not allow adequate time for the water to chill. If humidity is an issue in your room, you may want to put the reservoir outside the room.



1/4 HP minimum chiller size is recommended per 1000 watts.

600gph-900gph pump needed depending on the length and size of the tubing.

Approximately 250 cfm of airflow is needed to properly cool the fixture.

Several units can be daisy chained together using one fan, only 250 cfm is needed though all fixtures.
For maximum efficiency we recommend one Ice Box per reflector.

Allows you to keep a sealed room and helps keep pest and pathogens out of the room.

Keeps CO2 in the room instead of exhausting it out.

By running the water approximately 20 degree colder than your environment it can reduce the cooling load or replace your a/c unit.

Can be wall mounted with optional wall mount kit that includes the bracket and ducting coupler.

Manufacturer: Hydro Innovations







thats the Manufacturers sales add... seen them at the hydro store seem to work ok was in a green house area + i dont know if it had a chiller hooked up to it...



Only person i have heard mentioning them are dig Hap...



even if it dont chill if it just negates the heat off a 1000w bulb that means.... No more aircooling no more ducts running everywhere. no more a/c needed no a/c exhaust....



Down sides are need a chiller and a fan to push the air to each ice box.... and water lines will be running through the room....



i would like to know what if any peoples expierence that they have had with these... thanks in advance....

maybe i am wrong. thats makes it more appealing for sure

 

[madpenguin]

You can also feed them with a cold water line from your house plumbing. No need for a chiller/res. Would use a lot of water though.

 

[Sinfuldreams]

These do work when have the right set up. Seal the room Use a 55 gal Rez and a Good A/C unit or Chiller. The set up I saw used a A/c Unit that was rigged so the Condenser was about 6 feet from the Rez and in an Attic so all heat was dissipated out of the Rez Room.
You need an Area for the Heat Producing Parts of the system.. HVAC experts can make a killing customizing these.
The trouble for Most of us will be the cost to get the rest of the system working.
When you have these set right they are the best thing since Sliced Bread.

 

[buddah]

cool tube!!!

 

[Cotyledons]

Hi Smurfin, the product does perform. Greencoast Hydro has a setup running and it is badass. Shawn from Greencoast told me that they have a customer that has 6k watts with a 2hp chiller. For testing purposes he turned the chiller down all the way and the garden never got over 59 F for 12 hrs, WITH NO A/C RUNNING. That is badass.I have some answers to your questions.

If you have the a properly sized chiller large reservoirs are not necessary. A 55 gallon barrel is more than enough for most systems.
You do not need RO water, sink water will do
Yes you will need a water chiller unless you live in an area that is really cold, if so you can put the res outside. If you worry about it freezing propylene glycol keep that from happening.
Several reflectors can be used on one fan as long as there is adequate airflow and one Ice Box per reflector. The instructions are referring to the fact that the Ice Box must be placed on the exiting side of each reflector. If the Ice Box is placed on the incoming air it will not work properly. In order for it to remove heat it must be placed past the heat source. Some heat will leak out of the reflector but considering that all of the air in the garden will pass over the Ice Box it will be removed one way or another. I agree with madepenguin about that.
Chaining them together is easy, nothing extra to buy. The first reflector has nothing on the incoming side and an Ice Box on the other side. Ducting attaches directly to the Ice Box and runs to the next reflector...this reflector gets an Ice Box on the other side....that Ice Box is ducted to the next reflector and so on. You would then attach the fan to the last Ice Box which would pull air through all of the reflectors.

It is important to have an Ice Box per reflector for a couple of reasons, one b/c if fewer IB's are used than recommended the water temperature must be lower to get the same results which is not energy efficient. The other reason is that you want each reflector to have cool air running through it, that is what will keep the glass cool.

 

[smurfin'herb]

Thanks for filling me in cotyledons. SO.. If i have 6kw and i have an ice box on each light, am i going to need 300 gallons of water to run through them..? That would be @ 50gal per unit. Is that what you meant..?

ALSO, how often does the water need changed..? And will it run more efficiently if you use pure water...?

 

[madpenguin]

I would probably want to use RO water with them. One would think you'd get excessive calcium deposits on the inside of the lines after a few years. The lower the TDS, the cleaner they will stay.

 

[Cotyledons]

Smurfin, no you would only need a 55 gallon barrel for most any system. You could actually run 20 lights off of a 5 gallon bucket if you have the right size chiller. It's all about BTU for BTU. A typical 1000 watt bulb makes 3500 BTU of heat an hour with about 500 BTU an hour of radiant heat. Radiant heat is the heat that you feel when you are underneath the light. IR from the bulb is absorbed by everything under the light and in turn the objects radiant heat in to the garden. So figuring 4000 BTU of heat per 1000 watt reflector would require 4000 BTU of cooling/chiller power for each lamp. So if you have a 12,000 BTU chiller (1hp) then you can run 3 lamps not using much traditional a/c.

If you were to put 4-6 lamps on a 1hp chiller you would then need a much larger reservoir so that you can "store" energy during the OFF cycle to be used during the ON cycle. Typically the chiller would run constantly so that you can bring the water temperature down in the res as much as possible. B/c the chiller is undersized the water temperature will rise until the light(s) turn off. The manufacturer recommends 1/4 HP per 1k watt lamp if there is a/c already in the space and this is b/c you are adding cooling BTU's with the a/c too. If not much a/c is available then they recommend 1/3 hp to 1/2 hp per 1k watt light.

Always over size your chiller, having your chiller running constantly is not good for it. Larger chillers don't use any more power than a smaller chiller b/c they run less. For an example, lets say you are running 3k watt lights which you would want to at least use a 1hp chiller. If you purchased a 2hp instead the chiller will run 1/2 as much and will theoretically last twice as long before wearing out. Plus if you decide to add a couple of lights you have the cooling power to handle it. Typically there is only a few hundred dollars difference between a 1hp and 2hp, they don't cost twice as much.

 

[ThaiSativa]

I am interested in getting one of these, but i was wondering if this would work with a big rubbermaid rez and bunch of frozen 2 liter bottles floating inthe rez.

 

[habeeb]

If I understand correct, your just wasting electricity to transfer the heat somewhere else

why not just hook up your light to vent out

 

[Seed Buyer]

Hey Cotyledons: I am going to be investing into a few Ice boxes and chillers and was looking for advice for rigging the hoses from the res to the ice boxes. I found one pic in your gallery. Could you please explain in more detail? Any extra pics would be great.

habeeb: in some parts of the world it is simply to hot to air cool. If you are sucking 90-100 degree heat from outside the grow room, through 1000 watt lights, virtually no "air cooling" is taking place. There is with out a doubt a need and market for these ice boxes.

 

[DankNugz420]

If I understand correct, your just wasting electricity to transfer the heat somewhere else

why not just hook up your light to vent out

Because the Ice Box REPLACES your a/c needs...

the ice box not only cools the reflectors/lights but EVERYTHING in your room, it acts as an A/c system..

 

[DankNugz420]

** I plan on purchasing a 1hp chiller and running (3) 1000W lights in my flowering room

the veg/clone room will just run with lots of cfls or fluro tubes **


This is going to save me a ton of $$ in electricity b/c liquid cooling is typically about 40% more efficient than traditional (window a/c unit) cooling

 

[NicholasSmokes]

For it to act as the A/C, do the lights have to have their intake and exhaust in the room?

 

[Lazyman]

Check with Apartmentblower for water-cooling your grow, he uses a big heat exchanger with a chiller. I think it would be much simpler to plumb one big H/E than 3-6 small ones, and probably more efficient too.

I thought that putting a res outside next to the outdoor chiller would probably help in the winter a lot, since the chiller wouldn't need to run much to keep the water ice cold. In the summertime it would use as much power as a split AC. Nice to be able to install it yourself though, no HVAC guy needed.

I also really like these, planning on getting one of them next spring, a 5-ton AC that only uses 600W of power and 1GPH of water! http://www.coolerado.com