Mandel wasn't completely accurate in that statement, of course, but Mandel wasn't aware of chromosomes and alleles and their effects on inherited traits. Some inherited traits are always associated with other inherited traits due to chromosomal positioning of alleles.
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The Haze discussion thread
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Mandel wasn't completely accurate in that statement, of course, but Mandel wasn't aware of chromosomes and alleles and their effects on inherited traits. Some inherited traits are always associated with other inherited traits due to chromosomal positioning of alleles.
so whats the theory on why removing an essential part of the plant is an improvement on its ability to gain more energy??
i reckon with growing plants id be listening to a gardener, botanist or scientist over a hippie anyday ,
and the former would say do not remove the parts of the plant that turn light into food im fairly sure ,
anything to make life harder for the plant does it no good ...
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
The problem lies more with what the consumer wants not the breeder. I will give you just one example the Mango Haze.
When shanti sent out the Mango Haze test seed most if not all apart from me and Jesse ended up culling there plants because they felt the line was not practical because they acted more like a pure sat than that of a more manageable fast flowering C99.
As a result the released version of the Mango Haze was re worked so it was more manageable for the consumers.
Most people want the smoke of a long flowering quality sativa but with out the long flowering time they take.
Agree 100% ...hey Pato...qwak
Old hippie friends used to remove fan leaves when outdoor plants were close to maturity....they were always speaking of harvest moon...October
they used to grow big plants outdoors....el Pato and I as well
Leave the plants alone...fuckers
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@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
The proof is in the results and every one dose things a little different.
I know what i do works i also know my ability as a grower but i am always willing to pick up new things and ideas.
A mates uncle who is a gorilla grower for over 5 decades now thought me how to create multiple root zones on a single out door plant.
Having grown also out doors i would of never of thought of doing this or even known it was possible to do.
Knocking something you have never tried or thought of doing is really a closed mind approach.
I know what i do works i also know my ability as a grower but i am always willing to pick up new things and ideas.
A mates uncle who is a gorilla grower for over 5 decades now thought me how to create multiple root zones on a single out door plant.
Having grown also out doors i would of never of thought of doing this or even known it was possible to do.
Knocking something you have never tried or thought of doing is really a closed mind approach.
Unfortunately, you can have the true smoke of a long flowering quality sativa, or you can have shorter flowering time, but my experience is you cannot have both. the real way to shorten flowering time on a tropical sativa is to go with highland over lowland, and then you only cut a couple of weeks at best. My experience is NOTHING matches the smoke of a truly tropical lowland Sativa, though.
Others may value that short time grow, but the hassle of growing out a lowland tropical sativa is worth everything to me.
I see the benefit of defoliating indoors. I have limited space so my plants pretty much grow sideways. The bigger fan leaves that run across the main stem are directly blocking light from the flower buds and I tend to remove these. It's common sense when all light comes from one direction. That said,I don't really like removing healthy green leaves so I sometimes just bend the shading leaves out of the way. Works either way.
heirloomganja
Active member
That's the reason you don't see commercial grow of Original Haze.Its not practical to have plants with flowering periods of 18+ weeks.
Hey Thule ,
i can understand in some situations when growing for personal use that due to the artificial light not penetrating the canopy,
and not being strong enough to reach lower parts of the plant once they are of size ,
that it might be prudent to cull a few leafs shadowing lower parts in order to increase penetration , light penetration that is of course ,, lol ,
i cant agree severe or complete defoliation is needed and i pity plants that have that happen to them ...
i dont see the need to ever do that same thing outdoors since the sunlight is as strong at the top of the plant as it is at the bottom ,
a little pruning of the inner parts is useful , as well as lifting the skirts a little , but not defoliation,
that should never be needed on outdoor plants ...
reducing some of the inner branches that never produce much bud,
and the lowers so airflow can be increased can be beneficial ,
and help the remaining flowers to retrieve more energy to produce better ..
JohnnyChicago
Well-known member
I have no clue what's better, espcially when grown outside their natural environment.
But couldn't it be that the narrow leafed plants are so much narrow, because they are adapted to their natural environment, and their fan leaves need to abord less light, as nearer to the sun. Therefore fan leaves could be removed to have less shade and more light penetration indoors, as the light they do absord is neglectable compared to the shade they produce.
But Hammers is a great argument. Fan leaves do give you early signals...
But couldn't it be that the narrow leafed plants are so much narrow, because they are adapted to their natural environment, and their fan leaves need to abord less light, as nearer to the sun. Therefore fan leaves could be removed to have less shade and more light penetration indoors, as the light they do absord is neglectable compared to the shade they produce.
But Hammers is a great argument. Fan leaves do give you early signals...
B
Benny106
Arjan said, on a YouTube interview that when he was growing on a mountain, the lowland areas gave wider leaves and the same cultivar at higher altitudes gave thin leaf expression. So perhaps it is simply amount of light?
....?????????Settle down boyz! 
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
The Benefits of Proper Defoliation When Growing Cannabis
In the cannabis industry and especially among cannabis growers, defoliation continues to be a divisive topic. Many people still believe that defoliation isn’t necessary for a growing cannabis plant. Those that acknowledge its importance are also still likely to disagree on what defoliation method works best and which doesn’t work at all.
But ultimately, defoliation is good for cannabis plants and there is enough scientific research to prove it. It’s important to note that defoliation is only beneficial to the plant when done right. This simple guide helps cannabis growers learn more about defoliation techniques, plus the specific benefits plants derive from being defoliated every once in a while.
What is defoliation?
Defoliation is simply the act of cutting leaves off a cannabis plant for the purpose of pruning. It is backed by scientific research that shows that older plant leaves do not contribute as much to plant growth as new, smaller leaves, but instead, they become detrimental.
According to research, as plants grow, so does the size of their leaves. Older leaves become larger, thereby taking up even more water, sunlight and other nutrients even though their ability to support photosynthesis and other necessary processes is more limited. Defoliation aims to eliminate these older leaves and rejuvenate the cannabis plant.
The benefits of proper defoliation
When done right, defoliation triggers a long list of benefits for the cannabis plant. Some of them include:
Larger yields
Defoliation has been proven to boost the yields you can get from your cannabis garden. There are two angles to this: the first revolves around the plant hormone ethylene, which is known to lower yields because of its ability to trigger aging processes within plant cells.
Per nature’s design, ethylene is found in higher concentrations in older leaves and flowers, such as those at the lower ends of the cannabis plant. Defoliation effectively nips these leaves and flowers, triggering higher yields for the plant.
The second angle revolves around defoliation’s ability to increase the exposure of leaves to sunlight and air, which directly stimulates more photosynthesis, better growth and larger yields by harvest time.
Efficient light absorption
Plant leaves and flowers need direct light for a number of reasons, but mainly photosynthesis, faster growth and formation of resins. Defoliation helps clear overgrown sections of the plant by eliminating unnecessary leaves and exposing others to light.
When choosing leaves to spare, experts recommend that you give priority to newer, younger leaves because older, larger leaves (usually located lower down the plant) carry out less and less photosynthesis regardless of the amount of light received.
Note: If the cannabis plants are so close together in a small garden, you might need to nip a lot more leaves per plant for them to access any light. Just don’t overdo it because too much leaf loss directly affects plant growth.
Better ventilation
For cannabis plants, increased growth also means more leaves everywhere. When no defoliation is done for a long time, the lower and inner sections of the plant see their air circulation cut off by the many leaves around foliage, which is detrimental for growth as there is limited gas exchange via the stomata in the leaf.
Defoliation helps avert disaster here, especially if some of the bigger leaves are cut off and sections with more leaves are trimmed to allow air flow into other sections of the plant.
Lower risk of bacteria
In addition to pests and fungal infections, bacteria are another major hazard to watch out for when growing cannabis plants. Defoliation can help lower bacterial infections, thanks to its ability to improve light absorption and increase airflow toward the plant.
These effects are direct triggers for increased chlorophyll and more photosynthesis, which in turn result in increased leaf concentrations of phenols such as resveratrol and apigenin. Both compounds happen to have natural immunity boosting abilities, so they help the cannabis plant combat bacterial infections.
In the cannabis industry and especially among cannabis growers, defoliation continues to be a divisive topic. Many people still believe that defoliation isn’t necessary for a growing cannabis plant. Those that acknowledge its importance are also still likely to disagree on what defoliation method works best and which doesn’t work at all.
But ultimately, defoliation is good for cannabis plants and there is enough scientific research to prove it. It’s important to note that defoliation is only beneficial to the plant when done right. This simple guide helps cannabis growers learn more about defoliation techniques, plus the specific benefits plants derive from being defoliated every once in a while.
What is defoliation?
Defoliation is simply the act of cutting leaves off a cannabis plant for the purpose of pruning. It is backed by scientific research that shows that older plant leaves do not contribute as much to plant growth as new, smaller leaves, but instead, they become detrimental.
According to research, as plants grow, so does the size of their leaves. Older leaves become larger, thereby taking up even more water, sunlight and other nutrients even though their ability to support photosynthesis and other necessary processes is more limited. Defoliation aims to eliminate these older leaves and rejuvenate the cannabis plant.
The benefits of proper defoliation
When done right, defoliation triggers a long list of benefits for the cannabis plant. Some of them include:
Larger yields
Defoliation has been proven to boost the yields you can get from your cannabis garden. There are two angles to this: the first revolves around the plant hormone ethylene, which is known to lower yields because of its ability to trigger aging processes within plant cells.
Per nature’s design, ethylene is found in higher concentrations in older leaves and flowers, such as those at the lower ends of the cannabis plant. Defoliation effectively nips these leaves and flowers, triggering higher yields for the plant.
The second angle revolves around defoliation’s ability to increase the exposure of leaves to sunlight and air, which directly stimulates more photosynthesis, better growth and larger yields by harvest time.
Efficient light absorption
Plant leaves and flowers need direct light for a number of reasons, but mainly photosynthesis, faster growth and formation of resins. Defoliation helps clear overgrown sections of the plant by eliminating unnecessary leaves and exposing others to light.
When choosing leaves to spare, experts recommend that you give priority to newer, younger leaves because older, larger leaves (usually located lower down the plant) carry out less and less photosynthesis regardless of the amount of light received.
Note: If the cannabis plants are so close together in a small garden, you might need to nip a lot more leaves per plant for them to access any light. Just don’t overdo it because too much leaf loss directly affects plant growth.
Better ventilation
For cannabis plants, increased growth also means more leaves everywhere. When no defoliation is done for a long time, the lower and inner sections of the plant see their air circulation cut off by the many leaves around foliage, which is detrimental for growth as there is limited gas exchange via the stomata in the leaf.
Defoliation helps avert disaster here, especially if some of the bigger leaves are cut off and sections with more leaves are trimmed to allow air flow into other sections of the plant.
Lower risk of bacteria
In addition to pests and fungal infections, bacteria are another major hazard to watch out for when growing cannabis plants. Defoliation can help lower bacterial infections, thanks to its ability to improve light absorption and increase airflow toward the plant.
These effects are direct triggers for increased chlorophyll and more photosynthesis, which in turn result in increased leaf concentrations of phenols such as resveratrol and apigenin. Both compounds happen to have natural immunity boosting abilities, so they help the cannabis plant combat bacterial infections.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
......... would love to hear a little more about this!
Hi Cosmic well out doors i love to grow what we call tie downs. Basically you grow a plant to say 4ft or 5 ft and then slowly start tying the top towards the ground bending the plant over say a week so most of its now close to the ground. The side branches start to head up and branch out.Easy way to increase yield on a plant.
My mates uncle grew tie downs to but what he did that i had never herd of before or thought of doing was to created more root points on a single plant.
As the main steam in now being grown trained towards the ground what he did was put soil mounds at set points along the main steam and water.
You know what that dose it triggers the plant to throw out roots and now instead of having just one root ball you create as many as you want and the plant allows you. More roots means more uptake of what the plant needs.
Thanks 
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