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The Haze discussion thread

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TheDarkStorm

Well-known member
Here's the latest bullshit lie to the Haze story, fabricated by everyones favorite Hero/Hayz God Sam the BSman.

filedata/fetch?id=17822482&d=1617399853

I think its snowing all over tod...getting way way too high....I think he should really talk to sam before making statements about him or for him....as sam has made it pretty clear he sold nevil killos of seeds just days after arriving in holland....sam even recognized the description I gave him of one haze plant...which was actually nevils description of the post 70's plant...and sam recognized it as brians haze....guess were else briains haze is listed..
 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Breeding perspective (ok = hay)
End-user perspective (ok = ok)

Grow 100 pure Hazes and compare the best one to the OK ones.
Then you will understand.

Nothing wrong with having a different take on what you think. We all choose quality in our own way. Nothing wrong with someone thinking a haze plant is hay. They're entitled to their opinions. I should add someone called haze hay and they haven't grown any then their opinions are moot.
 
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Dirt Life

Well-known member
Veteran
Speaking of Todd, heres a lone haze seedling...
20210404_124927.jpg
20210404_125000.jpg

Sprouted amongst others including some haze hybrids..
 

RoyalFlush

DEA Agent
Premium user
420club
I think its snowing all over tod...getting way way too high....I think he should really talk to sam before making statements about him or for him....as sam has made it pretty clear he sold nevil killos of seeds just days after arriving in holland....sam even recognized the description I gave him of one haze plant...which was actually nevils description of the post 70's plant...and sam recognized it as brians haze....guess were else briains haze is listed..

Interesting
 

Hemphrey Bogart

Active member
Veteran
Not sure who Notsodog is, but I found his take on Nevil’s breeding work very interesting. I can still remember those old threads at Mr Nice where Nev was laying claim to having a hand in the more modern strains that we recognize today as elites. I remember doubting him at the time, but the way this guy explains it, it kinda makes sense. When you consider all the seed Nev sent to the states, at great personal risk, and the time frame he was in charge of the seedbank...well...it may not be such a coincidence that so many great lines were being grown in the mid-late 80s to 1990 or so.

Some of you are way more informed than myself regarding what Nevil did and the history behind his work...but I think the bottom line is...Nevil got a raw deal. When the Seedbank was at its apex, he was working on taking things even further and then he got busted. He had to sell everything in order to get bailed out and then ended up selling everything and going to work for the Dronkers who proceeded to change the names of some of his strains that he’d worked on for years. That would have made anyone bitter, I think.

This is part 2 of a 3 part interview, but this is the part that had the most meat on the bone, imho.



HB.
 

acespicoli

Well-known member
Yes it’s a big difference depending if one is talking about making seeds (breeding) or if one is talking finding female clones to grow perpetual and even some difference if one is talking about growing seeds. Maybe the most looked over aspect of having these online talks about cannabis, we all grow/smoke for our own reasons. Some look for parental stock to make seeds, some look for that one in a thousand female plant and some look to find ”stable” seed stock to plant. Also what is ”the best” vary with all the different endo-cannabinoid systems and how we all want to feel when smoking. One mans dope might be the next mans rope.

perfect haze cutting.png - Click image for larger version  Name:	perfect haze cutting.png Views:	0 Size:	468.1 KB ID:	17824066


True Stocktont
for me
that one female clone and open pollination
as SamS said he keeps clones 30+ years and OP was for preservation
May we all aspire to keep the haze for another 30 years intact as received
as well as enjoy the best, theres a reason haze has been around this long

I still remember telling my buddy years ago you cant die from weed
poor guy walked around in the spring rain trying to "loosen" his collar for a couple hours
before he believed me.

Moral of the lesson:: :biggrin:That needle in the hay stack aint for everyone
comfort.gif


happy Easter to everyone who is celebrating
Party
 
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@hempy

The Haze Whisperer
A Few points.

Haze is not for every one but for those of us who love sativas they are some of the best that can be found hands down but as haze is a hybrid numbers and selection with some luck thrown in is key to find those special plants that are worthy of legendary statues.

Its time people moved on both Sam and Nevil played a key roll in the modern Haze story.

Talking about history is fine but trying to change history and the facts relating to the parts played by Sam and Nevil is not.

The focus should be about shearing information on how to grow and get the best out of haze both indoors and out doors.

Were do we go from here is key like it or not Haze has not been improved going by Nevil it has not been improved since Haze arrived in Holland all those years ago.

Sam has his theory of what haze needs very large number grow and selection with open pollination.

Nevil had his Theory to use an unrelated sativa a Thai to haze to then dig threw that mating to find the ancestral haze plants as the closer you can get to the original Haze f1 is were the true magic is found.

Others believe inbreeding is the way.

The right way is were you see results.

Me i am going to follow Nevil's theory but i also want to work my own version of a haze type line i want to cross a Thai to a Colombian i wanted to do this for over 2 decades ago but finding the right lines was key.
 

Hemphrey Bogart

Active member
Veteran
A Few points.

Haze is not for every one but for those of us who love sativas they are some of the best that can be found hands down but as haze is a hybrid numbers and selection with some luck thrown in is key to find those special plants that are worthy of legendary statues.

Its time people moved on both Sam and Nevil played a key roll in the modern Haze story.

Talking about history is fine but trying to change history and the facts relating to the parts played by Sam and Nevil is not.

The focus should be about shearing information on how to grow and get the best out of haze both indoors and out doors.

Were do we go from here is key like it or not Haze has not been improved going by Nevil it has not been improved since Haze arrived in Holland all those years ago.

Sam has his theory of what haze needs very large number grow and selection with open pollination.

Nevil had his Theory to use an unrelated sativa a Thai to haze to then dig threw that mating to find the ancestral haze plants as the closer you can get to the original Haze f1 is were the true magic is found.

Others believe inbreeding is the way.

The right way is were you see results.

Me i am going to follow Nevil's theory but i also want to work my own version of a haze type line i want to cross a Thai to a Colombian i wanted to do this for over 2 decades ago but finding the right lines was key.


Best of luck with your project, Hempy. I think any productive breeding project has to begin with quality parents. I hope you find the lines you want to work with and then get to it.

This quote from Nevil always stuck with me for some reason....

"1:1 matings is something I'd like to address. People suggest that I'm creating a bottleneck and it's true. A bottleneck of quality. Seeds are usually produced by using two parents. With a 1:1 mating you know which ones they were.

As a seed breeder, the job as I see it is to ensure that the customer has the highest chance of producing a keeper pheno, whilst at the same time keeping the median a high standard. Every packet should produce top shelf plants. These guys who say you have to buy numerous packets of seed to get a keeper, crack me up. The job is not to save the gene pool, but to satisfy the guy who gave you the money. Few people want to give you money to save the genepool (but I am taking donations) Haha!
If I'm making Early Skunk and the mother EP has been chosen. Which Skunk male fathers the seeds does make a difference. Single progeny tested males is your best guarantee of quality and crop uniformity."

If you're open pollinating, you're trying to preserve/save as many genes as possible...which is great. You're also not breeding towards any specific traits...which may not be so great. It's like you're just reshuffling the same deck and hoping you find something out of the progeny that rings your bell. That said, I suppose it all depends on what you want to accomplish. If you want to produce seed with a high number of quality/uniform plants, it only seems logical to breed with specific traits in mind and to select away the plants that don't carry those traits. In a sense, you have to keep narrowing your focus as you continue digging through the line in order to find a parental combination that works.

When Nevil was selling seeds, his main goal seemed to be to get the best seed out to his customers so that he could dominate the market and spread his creations all over the world. The more satisfied customers he got, the more business he got...the more business he got, the more he could afford to do the work he wanted to continue doing. Seems like pretty simple math to me.

The more I read and learn about Nevil, the more I come to understand why he did the things the way he did them. I've been reading about him for years, but I've never really given too much thought to the impact he had and how he really transformed the seed business.

HB.
 

@hempy

The Haze Whisperer
Nevil tried to share his breeding tech with people at Mrnice but it is what it is there is more than enough info posted by him for people to put the peaces together if they want to.

I was lucky i got to know Nevil as a human being and hear all the history direct from him many times but for me having him treat me as an equal having debates discussions on things like Haze and breeding is something i am grateful for.

I taught Nevil a few things to he loved the Hempy bucket method Nevil did not just breed cannabis he had breed horses birds fish and even sheep i bet few knew this part to him.

He told me all about the bird breeder that lived next to him as a kid he gained all the breeding knowledge from.

Nevil taught me about what he called colors and how even a indica that i may not like could be very useful in hybridization work with lines i love and how they could improve lines.Like an artist blending of colors adding say blue and yellow to make green you have the ability to also make a dark or light green and so on. 5 breeders could start with the same 2 basic lines and all end up at very different directions and end results.

HB it took me years to find the right lines mate more luck than anything.

Was wondering how did the Todds repo haze work turn out for you.
 

Hemphrey Bogart

Active member
Veteran
Todd’s haze was decent...found two plants that I liked. One was a taller Ohaze with a typical haze high and flavor. Really buzzy head high with a good taste. My favorite was a haze plant that grew very short...almost like a miniaturized version of one of the sibling plants.

The shorter plant had noticeably tackier resin and a more woody/spicy incense thing going on. The high on that one was quite nice as well...not as good as a well selected Mango haze, imho... but definitely worth growing.

This season, I’m focusing on NL5 and trying to grow out as many seeds as I can find from different sources. I’ve got some Acapulco Gold seed that seem pretty uniform (but somewhat sexually unstable) and I want to see how the two lines combine just for fun. Failure is always an option, but I’d rather try than not and wish I had later.

HB.
 

@hempy

The Haze Whisperer
Todd’s haze was decent...found two plants that I liked. One was a taller Ohaze with a typical haze high and flavor. Really buzzy head high with a good taste. My favorite was a haze plant that grew very short...almost like a miniaturized version of one of the sibling plants.

The shorter plant had noticeably tackier resin and a more woody/spicy incense thing going on. The high on that one was quite nice as well...not as good as a well selected Mango haze, imho... but definitely worth growing.

This season, I’m focusing on NL5 and trying to grow out as many seeds as I can find from different sources. I’ve got some Acapulco Gold seed that seem pretty uniform (but somewhat sexually unstable) and I want to see how the two lines combine just for fun. Failure is always an option, but I’d rather try than not and wish I had later.

HB.

So no hiding behind the curtains type high when you hear a knock on the door there the ones you want. Is the smaller plant the one i really liked i loved the profile of that plant.

Last time i saw Acapulco Gold was the early 80s we had lids ( Oz in a can ) being imported in was really nice smoke to.

I think that sounds like a nice project HB i personally don't like smoking NL kicking my self i was offered a NL line grown in the snowy maintains here inbreed many generations grown out doors i said no to it would of been a valuable breeding tool.
 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
So no hiding behind the curtains type high when you hear a knock on the door there the ones you want. Is the smaller plant the one i really liked i loved the profile of that plant.

Last time i saw Acapulco Gold was the early 80s we had lids ( Oz in a can ) being imported in was really nice smoke to.

I think that sounds like a nice project HB i personally don't like smoking NL kicking my self i was offered a NL line grown in the snowy maintains here inbreed many generations grown out doors i said no to it would of been a valuable breeding tool.


Not many would want a plant like that lol.. Being paranoid is not enjoyable. If that's what a special Haze plants about ill have to pass.
 

TheDarkStorm

Well-known member
If its doing that to you and you find it awkward it means use less of that type..guess some of us like a menical rollercoaster ride tho...something that pushes the boundaries and hits the outer limits...and very very few types are that aggressive and powerful that there able to do that...
 

acespicoli

Well-known member
hempy if you like the nl id check the maple leaf (some call ortega) JO
Sensi Seeds' Maple Leaf Indica Description


A relatively new release as a seed, this fat, sticky hash-makers’ plant has long been prized for its sparkling coating of resin glands and syrupy sweet citrus bouquet. Maple Leaf Indica is bred from precious, vintage Afghanica gene-stock – parent plants that have formed part of several important Sensi Seeds hybrids and which represent one of the surviving strains behind original Mazar-i-Sharif hashish.

The direct forebears of Maple Leaf Indica were brought out of Afghanistan just before the Soviet invasion and older smokers lucky enough to have visited the region in its peaceful era may find this variety to be a taste – and a blast – from the past. Some of the earliest western references to the Maple Leaf parent strain describe both the plant and the hashish produced from it as “renowned throughout the Hindu Kush and the whole of the Middle East as the best there is.”

Even by the high standards of the region, Mazar-i-Sharif is a celebrated centre of cannabis and hashish culture, and prior to the Eighties its reputation was greater still. Situated just inside Afghanistan’s northern border, the town’s proximity to the territory of the former USSR made it one of the very first areas to be affected by the invasion. This threat was perhaps the only reason that the traditional cultivators of the Maple Leaf parent strain allowed it to leave their possession, and the collector who received the original seeds made it a personal mission to preserve this unique Indica.

The exodus of sublime Afghani genotypes during that period changed the face of ganja cultivation around the world and western growers have literally reaped the benefits ever since. Maple Leaf represents one of the finest Afghanica varieties ever seen outside the region, back-crossed to express the purity of her ancestors. This strain quickly and easily produces solid buds that drip with crystal and sugary orange-grapefruit flavours. While not the biggest-yielding Afghani in the Sensi collection, Maple Leaf Indica tops the list for resin production and has always been one of our personal favourites.

Short flowering period (45 - 50 days)
100% Indica

if you get into the story or know the history might take you to the roots of where nl came from

It is a pure Maple Leaf Indica Afghani selection and is not related to Northern Lights. She is over 40 years old and still preserved in her original vitality. Ortega / Maple Leaf Indica genes are found in many known crosses such as Black Domina or Super Skunk. The plants are dark green with broad leaves reminiscent of maple leafs, have a stable main trunk and grow when they have space in a Christmas tree shape. Tightly composed, only one main blossom forms and almost no lateral shoots.The aroma is sweet-fruity towards grape / grapefruit with distinct hashish and hops touch in the finish. Very resinous plants, producing excellent hashish, dry sifted a true flavor experience. Can be used for medical purposes like: sleep disorders, ADHD, tourette, appetite, tinnitus and nerve pain.'

was used to good effect in Marleys Collie I found that mix very enjoyable
https://en.seedfinder. :bow: eu/strain-info/Marleys_Collie/Sensi_Seeds/ SF
Sensi Seeds' Marleys Collie Description


Mrs. Rita Marley was the guest of honour at the 1997 Cannabis Cup. Her presence lifted the normally high spirits of the festival to a new level and inspired Sensi to start work on something truly special - a strain of ganja to celebrate the great Bob Marley.

Leading the spread of reggae across the globe is an enormous achievement and Bob Marley accomplished even more than this, speaking to generations of people about freedom, justice, unity and, of course, cannabis. Whether he’s known as a poet, preacher or prophet, few other artists have had so much positive influence on world culture.

Creating a strain worthy of the Marley name was a challenge Sensi took very seriously. For two years, the skills of our breeding staff and research lab focused on a group of superb Jamaican plants selected years before for their delicious tropical qualities.

After dozens of experimental crossings, the best Jamaican lady was pollinated with a pure Afghani cultivar from the syrup-sweet Maple Leaf Indica family, producing extraordinary results.

From the first tests of the f1 seeds, it was obvious this was a very special hybrid. The fusion of tropical Caribbean ganja and hash-drenched Afghanica genes from the heart of the Hindu Kush gave rise to exotic, exciting plants with massive, running bud structures and bubbling resin production. The spectacular sight of the test plants in full bloom was absolute proof that this was the new strain Sensi was looking for.

The rich and unique ‘green oil’ smell of Marley's Collie encompasses the sweet, sharp and spicy notes of her varied ancestry. Bud growth is steady and strong at the outset, and rampant in later stages, when swollen, sticky calyxes suddenly grow in every direction from Marley’s flowers, giving them a spiky ‘meteoroid’ appearance.

Collie buds have strong Indica and Sativa features, providing a delicious burst of flavour and splendid, golden high that warms the body like a beam of sunshine - from the tips of the toes to the frontal lobes.

Note: ‘Collie’ is an old-time Jamaican term for excellent ganja, and the word is said to derive from the name of the goddess Kali – the dark, destructive aspect of Durga who can be seen as Shiva’s female antecedent or counterpart. Indian culture originally brought Kali to the Caribbean, along with cannabis itself, and even the word ‘ganja’. It’s no coincidence that the holy herb is also a sacrament to Ma Kali.

Average flowering period (60 - 65 days)
60% Sativa / 40% Indica

imagine it would blend with a great haze very well, wish you the best on your work:plant grow:
 

JohnnyChicago

Well-known member
Hey Johnny

Could you point me to the right direction to obtain one of those magic OHaze packs that only puts out winners?

Hey RF,
Seedsman Haze, for winner males. That is what I do recommend to everybody. Especially to you, as that's what everybody will be doing, NLxOH or A5/A5s1xOH.
But for what you are asking I would say THH x Seedsman, or any pure Haze crossed to Seedsman.
 

JockBudman

Well-known member
Yes it’s a big difference depending if one is talking about making seeds (breeding) or if one is talking finding female clones to grow perpetual and even some difference if one is talking about growing seeds. Maybe the most looked over aspect of having these online talks about cannabis, we all grow/smoke for our own reasons. Some look for parental stock to make seeds, some look for that one in a thousand female plant and some look to find ”stable” seed stock to plant. Also what is ”the best” vary with all the different endo-cannabinoid systems and how we all want to feel when smoking. One mans dope might be the next mans rope.

Wisdom right here an somethin that bears repeatin on this site until it becomes ingrained in all of us.

:tiphat:
 

mexcurandero420

See the world through a puff of smoke
Veteran
hempy if you like the nl id check the maple leaf (some call ortega) JO
Sensi Seeds' Maple Leaf Indica Description


A relatively new release as a seed, this fat, sticky hash-makers’ plant has long been prized for its sparkling coating of resin glands and syrupy sweet citrus bouquet. Maple Leaf Indica is bred from precious, vintage Afghanica gene-stock – parent plants that have formed part of several important Sensi Seeds hybrids and which represent one of the surviving strains behind original Mazar-i-Sharif hashish.

The direct forebears of Maple Leaf Indica were brought out of Afghanistan just before the Soviet invasion and older smokers lucky enough to have visited the region in its peaceful era may find this variety to be a taste – and a blast – from the past. Some of the earliest western references to the Maple Leaf parent strain describe both the plant and the hashish produced from it as “renowned throughout the Hindu Kush and the whole of the Middle East as the best there is.”

Even by the high standards of the region, Mazar-i-Sharif is a celebrated centre of cannabis and hashish culture, and prior to the Eighties its reputation was greater still. Situated just inside Afghanistan’s northern border, the town’s proximity to the territory of the former USSR made it one of the very first areas to be affected by the invasion. This threat was perhaps the only reason that the traditional cultivators of the Maple Leaf parent strain allowed it to leave their possession, and the collector who received the original seeds made it a personal mission to preserve this unique Indica.

The exodus of sublime Afghani genotypes during that period changed the face of ganja cultivation around the world and western growers have literally reaped the benefits ever since. Maple Leaf represents one of the finest Afghanica varieties ever seen outside the region, back-crossed to express the purity of her ancestors. This strain quickly and easily produces solid buds that drip with crystal and sugary orange-grapefruit flavours. While not the biggest-yielding Afghani in the Sensi collection, Maple Leaf Indica tops the list for resin production and has always been one of our personal favourites.

Short flowering period (45 - 50 days)
100% Indica

if you get into the story or know the history might take you to the roots of where nl came from

It is a pure Maple Leaf Indica Afghani selection and is not related to Northern Lights. She is over 40 years old and still preserved in her original vitality. Ortega / Maple Leaf Indica genes are found in many known crosses such as Black Domina or Super Skunk. The plants are dark green with broad leaves reminiscent of maple leafs, have a stable main trunk and grow when they have space in a Christmas tree shape. Tightly composed, only one main blossom forms and almost no lateral shoots.The aroma is sweet-fruity towards grape / grapefruit with distinct hashish and hops touch in the finish. Very resinous plants, producing excellent hashish, dry sifted a true flavor experience. Can be used for medical purposes like: sleep disorders, ADHD, tourette, appetite, tinnitus and nerve pain.'

was used to good effect in Marleys Collie I found that mix very enjoyable
https://en.**********. :bow: eu/strain-info/Marleys_Collie/Sensi_Seeds/ SF
Sensi Seeds' Marleys Collie Description


Mrs. Rita Marley was the guest of honour at the 1997 Cannabis Cup. Her presence lifted the normally high spirits of the festival to a new level and inspired Sensi to start work on something truly special - a strain of ganja to celebrate the great Bob Marley.

Leading the spread of reggae across the globe is an enormous achievement and Bob Marley accomplished even more than this, speaking to generations of people about freedom, justice, unity and, of course, cannabis. Whether he’s known as a poet, preacher or prophet, few other artists have had so much positive influence on world culture.

Creating a strain worthy of the Marley name was a challenge Sensi took very seriously. For two years, the skills of our breeding staff and research lab focused on a group of superb Jamaican plants selected years before for their delicious tropical qualities.

After dozens of experimental crossings, the best Jamaican lady was pollinated with a pure Afghani cultivar from the syrup-sweet Maple Leaf Indica family, producing extraordinary results.

From the first tests of the f1 seeds, it was obvious this was a very special hybrid. The fusion of tropical Caribbean ganja and hash-drenched Afghanica genes from the heart of the Hindu Kush gave rise to exotic, exciting plants with massive, running bud structures and bubbling resin production. The spectacular sight of the test plants in full bloom was absolute proof that this was the new strain Sensi was looking for.

The rich and unique ‘green oil’ smell of Marley's Collie encompasses the sweet, sharp and spicy notes of her varied ancestry. Bud growth is steady and strong at the outset, and rampant in later stages, when swollen, sticky calyxes suddenly grow in every direction from Marley’s flowers, giving them a spiky ‘meteoroid’ appearance.

Collie buds have strong Indica and Sativa features, providing a delicious burst of flavour and splendid, golden high that warms the body like a beam of sunshine - from the tips of the toes to the frontal lobes.

Note: ‘Collie’ is an old-time Jamaican term for excellent ganja, and the word is said to derive from the name of the goddess Kali – the dark, destructive aspect of Durga who can be seen as Shiva’s female antecedent or counterpart. Indian culture originally brought Kali to the Caribbean, along with cannabis itself, and even the word ‘ganja’. It’s no coincidence that the holy herb is also a sacrament to Ma Kali.

Average flowering period (60 - 65 days)
60% Sativa / 40% Indica

imagine it would blend with a great haze very well, wish you the best on your work:plant grow:

Marley's Collie is discontinued to the legal issues of using the name Marley.Was a lovely variety.Grew their Jamaican Pearl.
 

@hempy

The Haze Whisperer
hempy if you like the nl id check the maple leaf (some call ortega) JO
Sensi Seeds' Maple Leaf Indica Description

Hi acespicoli thanks for that but i wouldn't touch a thing from sinsi i grew a few of there things out in the mid 80s worse weed i ever grew.

I have a nice collection of indicas now from very old Nevil's Hash plant / Afgani / Kush / 2 G13 hybrids and a few more.

I crossed a very heavy G13 expressive male to Queeny and the OTHER years ago ran a few to see how it turned out was very happy with the results.
 
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