The Haze discussion thread

[50shadesofgreen]

Maybe its all about how different people feel and react on different variety....than everyone of them know they talk truth and will fight for it, beause it is how he/ they feel it. I know some people who do not like sativa high at all because they go crazy when they smoke it. Its too strong for them and they want to be grounded on the planet earth by strong sedating WLD variety.
For me personaly I feel the diference between NHZ and THH (never grown OHZ so I cant compare). I feel NHZ more racy and kind of ''stronger'', but after NHZ I am more tired, for example some phenotypes of Malawi from Ace are also that strong, long lasting and heavy. When I smoke THH I feel just great, my day brighten and than it leaves me in great mood not that wasted. I usualy took NHZ out from a jar when I wanted to impress somebody with potency. THH I smoke at weekends when I have time to relax and enjoy that bliss undisturbed. During week I smoke usualy some of my own hybrid pollen chucks Theres just something special about THH ... and about OHZ also I believe, people write it a lot on forums here and there, they love it....why would they all lie ?

 

[Ganja 13]

Beautiful post 50 shades

 

[William76]

It's were the catpiss phenos come from or so iv found,nl has a cat piss musky pheno and so does skunk,different from each other but still pissy,didn't find as much,or many for that matter in the o haze,iv grew a few from this site a few year back,grew tfds(norcalboneyards
is an f3 of these if I remember rightly),grew positronics and a few other versions of supposed pure hazes.its what I found.76

 

[Hammerhead]

Is THH still available today?.

 

[CannaRed]

Is THH still available today?.

And what happened to Tom? Did he get banned or just drop off again?

 

[Hammerhead]

And what happened to Tom? Did he get banned or just drop off again?

He still here as far as I know. Its been a min since he last posted.

 

[Raho]

...
Ive grown Original Haze 15 maybe 20 years back and it was nice but then i found Neville's Genetics.
...
Its taken nearly 40 years to discover the OHaze , where have they been the last 20 years, where were the famous cuts , buds in Coffeshops etc etc
They grew 16 week Nevil Haze so Why not O Haze

Because Neville's Haze's were the refined versions of OHaze and O Haze is still very nice but most only like to smoke it not grow it , Neville made it indoor friendly and managble and better tasting by isolating
certain phenos anb working them for 20 years.
...
Sam has made more seeds than most including
Sk x Haze , thai x Haze , Hindu kush x Haze and the list goes on and plain truth is none were as good as Neville's strains or selections.
The grail project Neville made is easily
up there with any Haze/Sativa i smoked and his famous work and much better than any OHAZE or F2 O Haze's i tried.

Hi OJD.
Glad you like Nev's Hazes. Everybody has their preference, right?
...

When you start talking about what is popular in coffee shops, you have to agree that commercial popularity really has little to do with connoisseur quality for 2 reasons:
A: The best "grower's plant" for commercial growers has quality of effects somewhere way down around #9 or #10 on the list of requirements, after things like:

1. Flower time
2. Yield
3. Hardiness
4. Ease of trimming
5. Bag appeal
6. Smell
7. Taste
8. Potency
9. Effects (quality)

B: Most smokers are incredibly poor judges of quality, especially at putting a value on something they have never smoked before. They also consistently choose price over exotic quality just like they do in the beer market where many choices are available at their fingertips and they consistently buy WAY more of the cheap stuff.

So, commercial growers have an incentive to grow something besides "the best" and commercial customers gladly accept it because they don't know any better.
Thus your point about what sells the most at coffeeshops is moot as an indicator of quality.

You say that Nevil's hazes are "refined" versions of oHaze, but I don't think that's the right word to describe what you mean. "Tamed" maybe? Tamed for growers.

More compact less challenging plants, finishing faster are MUCH easier to successfully bring a crop to harvest than giant, stretchy long flowering sativas with unique fertilizer requirements.

Maha is right that hybrids are not the same thing as pure hazes, and although he often seems to forget that each of us have a different definition of "best" herb, he is not the first to make the point that sativas crossed with wide leafs lose some clarity. He leaves out that they give what some people consider to be positive effects in their place, but that's not really my focus.
Nevil didn't refine haze by hybridizing it, he changed it fundamentally. And that is Maha's point.
...

Regarding oHaze quality, you seem to be making the suggestion that oHaze is not as good as Nevil's crosses because it's been around for 40 years and it's never made an impact on the market.
I have a couple of points in reply to that:
oHaze and Nev's Haze hybrids have been experiencing declining popularity for at least the last 15 years.
In the US, the concept of "Elite cuts" is dominated by wide leafs, and the EU market has been dominated by "Cali weed strains" for 6 years or so maybe?
In the US, there are only a couple of "named cuts" of haze that have been preserved and circulated, and none of them have much more than a local impact where they are held. "Colorado Cough" might be a bad example because the folks in CO insist that it is made with oHaze and isn't Nev's work. I have always doubted that claim, but who knows right? Then there's is the "Cuban Black Haze" or "Piff". More of a legend than a cut (not for lack of trying to find it.) The CBH is just starting to appear in some breeders works now, and most believe that it is a very early selection from Nevil's NL x Haze.
Probably the most popular Haze hybrid to ever hit the market by pure pounds sold in the US would be Blue Dream.
That's only a "25% haze", so it kind of supports the point about wide leafs dominating. (I hate discussing pheno/chemotypical genetics terms of % of the parents, but for simplicity sake . . .)

The popular (Nev selected) commercial cuts of haze hybrids in Netherlands are all pretty wide leaf in expression, although the dominant influence of haze on their effects is indisputable.

All of that is to the point that the market for true pure tropical narrow leafs is tiny compared to the wide leaf market. Both for seeds and flowers. Of course pure oHaze get's less love than Nevil's 50-25% crosses.
Why is that you ask?

Well, first of all, different philosophies of Sam vs Nev.
Sam has made it pretty clear that his approach to Haze seeds has been more about preserving breeding stock than improving the line or locking in specific traits. He made his money elsewhere, and doing it this way satisfied his preservation needs and his desire to share the genetics with the world.
Nevil on the other hand pursued his goal of making sure his customers found keepers in every pack. To do that he sold F1 seeds from 1 to 1 matings of excellent parents. This reduced pheno spreads, and delivered mostly dominant traits and hybrid vigor. Of course, once the original F1's were no longer available on the market, the magic became fleeting, killer phenos rare like lightning in a bottle.

It's no wonder people started to look at the source genetic inputs. But the task was not going to be easy.

Not only was the seed stock that Sam sold not consistent, but companies like Positronics, Flying Dutchman and others didn't do a particularly good job at preserving their parent selections and delivering people seeds that actually grew like the catalog said they would.
Lets not even get into the fact that many people smoke herb these days to tune out and turn off. As much as those of us in this thread get excited by the description of "electric effects" anxiety, paranoia, and trip weed, tuning in and connecting to the world in 2021 is just not as popular as the opposite. Another case of the customer maybe not realizing what they are missing?

We are in the middle of an oHaze Renaissance right now, and there is a very good reason for it.
A small, loosely affiliated group of passionate people have been working and collaborating for YEARS away from ICmag to grow out and make selections from all the available lines of oHaze on the market.
They didn't announce to the world that they were doing some big project and ask everyone to help like Nevil did with his Grail work. They just quietly chased their own passion and found a few kindred spirits that joined them along the way. Organic and spontaneous.

Their work is just now showing up on this site and it has caused quite a stir.
Part of that work included sad discoveries with some vendors gear. It just wasn't what it used to be. Nothing like what it was supposed to be.
These guys have done the hard work, identified the most promising lines and worked them to individual keeper selections of the best parents to breed with.
The last 100 pack of Seedsman oHaze, Golli's selection and preservation of Seedsman ohaze from the 90's,OT1 haze and selections from Tom Hill's Haze stock, dug out and shared for the occasion were worked and found the best offspring to not only be head and shoulders above anything "oHaze" offered on the market to date, but world class to the point that they are serious rivals for anything Nev ever did with A and C.
Sam's pure oHaze seeds gifted to Mac are still being grown I guess. Everyone hopes for/expects great things from his generous contribution, and we'll see. The bar was already set very high before they arrived.

Nobody needs to tell these dudes what to select for, that is for sure
So Imagine: Being able to buy a pack of seeds where you could find your own haze A or Haze C male or female . . . PURE.

• "Incense"? Yup. Plenty of it.
• "Trippy"? Sure, they got that.
• "Connected/Spiritual/Uplifting"? Oh yeah! No problem.

It's a BIG DEAL, and the guys doing the work have been giving it away as testers and gifts to lots of growers here.

None of them care a thing about making a buck off of the work. Explore, Preserve, Work and Share are what they care about and it's inspiring. It's EXCITING.
Hopefully the work will become more available soon. I know these guys are not money driven but every grower out there should have some packs of this gear. They'll find a way if i know anything about them ;-)

But I understand . . . This new pure gear isn't the only thing people want and it's not the only narrow-leaf work going on right now.

Not everybody wants to deal with growing these long-flowering monsters. I'm sure hybrids will start coming out from people who get the gear and work with it.

I also wish you great success with your work using the Nev/Kanga lines you have sourced. I'm sure you will find something great in there!
It's a great time to be a grower, but we should all pay attention to the lessons of the past: never count on other people to preserve and make available the genetics you love. It's here today, gone tomorrow, and if you don't hold it, you don't have it.


Cheers!

 

[@hempy]

Hi OJD.
Glad you like Nev's Hazes. Everybody has their preference, right?
...

When you start talking about what is popular in coffee shops, you have to agree that commercial popularity really has little to do with connoisseur quality for 2 reasons:
A: The best "grower's plant" for commercial growers has quality of effects somewhere way down around #9 or #10 on the list of requirements, after things like:

1. Flower time
2. Yield
3. Hardiness
4. Ease of trimming
5. Bag appeal
6. Smell
7. Taste
8. Potency
9. Effects (quality)

B: Most smokers are incredibly poor judges of quality, especially at putting a value on something they have never smoked before. They also consistently choose price over exotic quality just like they do in the beer market where many choices are available at their fingertips and they consistently buy WAY more of the cheap stuff.

So, commercial growers have an incentive to grow something besides "the best" and commercial customers gladly accept it because they don't know any better.
Thus your point about what sells the most at coffeeshops is moot as an indicator of quality.

You say that Nevil's hazes are "refined" versions of oHaze, but I don't think that's the right word to describe what you mean. "Tamed" maybe? Tamed for growers.

More compact less challenging plants, finishing faster are MUCH easier to successfully bring a crop to harvest than giant, stretchy long flowering sativas with unique fertilizer requirements.

Maha is right that hybrids are not the same thing as pure hazes, and although he often seems to forget that each of us have a different definition of "best" herb, he is not the first to make the point that sativas crossed with wide leafs lose some clarity. He leaves out that they give what some people consider to be positive effects in their place, but that's not really my focus.
Nevil didn't refine haze by hybridizing it, he changed it fundamentally. And that is Maha's point.
...

Regarding oHaze quality, you seem to be making the suggestion that oHaze is not as good as Nevil's crosses because it's been around for 40 years and it's never made an impact on the market.
I have a couple of points in reply to that:
oHaze and Nev's Haze hybrids have been experiencing declining popularity for at least the last 15 years.
In the US, the concept of "Elite cuts" is dominated by wide leafs, and the EU market has been dominated by "Cali weed strains" for 6 years or so maybe?
In the US, there are only a couple of "named cuts" of haze that have been preserved and circulated, and none of them have much more than a local impact where they are held. "Colorado Cough" might be a bad example because the folks in CO insist that it is made with oHaze and isn't Nev's work. I have always doubted that claim, but who knows right? Then there's is the "Cuban Black Haze" or "Piff". More of a legend than a cut (not for lack of trying to find it.) The CBH is just starting to appear in some breeders works now, and most believe that it is a very early selection from Nevil's NL x Haze.
Probably the most popular Haze hybrid to ever hit the market by pure pounds sold in the US would be Blue Dream.
That's only a "25% haze", so it kind of supports the point about wide leafs dominating. (I hate discussing pheno/chemotypical genetics terms of % of the parents, but for simplicity sake . . .)

The popular (Nev selected) commercial cuts of haze hybrids in Netherlands are all pretty wide leaf in expression, although the dominant influence of haze on their effects is indisputable.

All of that is to the point that the market for true pure tropical narrow leafs is tiny compared to the wide leaf market. Both for seeds and flowers. Of course pure oHaze get's less love than Nevil's 50-25% crosses.
Why is that you ask?

Well, first of all, different philosophies of Sam vs Nev.
Sam has made it pretty clear that his approach to Haze seeds has been more about preserving breeding stock than improving the line or locking in specific traits. He made his money elsewhere, and doing it this way satisfied his preservation needs and his desire to share the genetics with the world.
Nevil on the other hand pursued his goal of making sure his customers found keepers in every pack. To do that he sold F1 seeds from 1 to 1 matings of excellent parents. This reduced pheno spreads, and delivered mostly dominant traits and hybrid vigor. Of course, once the original F1's were no longer available on the market, the magic became fleeting, killer phenos rare like lightning in a bottle.

It's no wonder people started to look at the source genetic inputs. But the task was not going to be easy.

Not only was the seed stock that Sam sold not consistent, but companies like Positronics, Flying Dutchman and others didn't do a particularly good job at preserving their parent selections and delivering people seeds that actually grew like the catalog said they would.
Lets not even get into the fact that many people smoke herb these days to tune out and turn off. As much as those of us in this thread get excited by the description of "electric effects" anxiety, paranoia, and trip weed, tuning in and connecting to the world in 2021 is just not as popular as the opposite. Another case of the customer maybe not realizing what they are missing?

We are in the middle of an oHaze Renaissance right now, and there is a very good reason for it.
A small, loosely affiliated group of passionate people have been working and collaborating for YEARS away from ICmag to grow out and make selections from all the available lines of oHaze on the market.
They didn't announce to the world that they were doing some big project and ask everyone to help like Nevil did with his Grail work. They just quietly chased their own passion and found a few kindred spirits that joined them along the way. Organic and spontaneous.

Their work is just now showing up on this site and it has caused quite a stir.
Part of that work included sad discoveries with some vendors gear. It just wasn't what it used to be. Nothing like what it was supposed to be.
These guys have done the hard work, identified the most promising lines and worked them to individual keeper selections of the best parents to breed with.
The last 100 pack of Seedsman oHaze, Golli's selection and preservation of Seedsman ohaze from the 90's, and selections from Tom Hill's Haze stock, dug out and shared for the occasion were worked and found the best offspring to not only be head and shoulders above anything "oHaze" offered on the market to date, but world class to the point that they are serious rivals for anything Nev ever did with A and C.
Sam's pure oHaze seeds gifted to Mac are still being grown I guess. Everyone hopes for/expects great things from his generous contribution, and we'll see. The bar was already set very high before they arrived.

Nobody needs to tell these dudes what to select for, that is for sure
So Imagine: Being able to buy a pack of seeds where you could find your own haze A or Haze C male or female . . . PURE.

• "Incense"? Yup. Plenty of it.
• "Trippy"? Sure, they got that.
• "Connected/Spiritual/Uplifting"? Oh yeah! No problem.

It's a BIG DEAL, and the guys doing the work have been giving it away as testers and gifts to lots of growers here.

None of them care a thing about making a buck off of the work. Explore, Preserve, Work and Share are what they care about and it's inspiring. It's EXCITING.
Hopefully the work will become more available soon. I know these guys are not money driven but every grower out there should have some packs of this gear. They'll find a way if i know anything about them ;-)

But I understand . . . This new pure gear isn't the only thing people want and it's not the only narrow-leaf work going on right now.

Not everybody wants to deal with growing these long-flowering monsters. I'm sure hybrids will start coming out from people who get the gear and work with it.

I also wish you great success with your work using the Nev/Kanga lines you have sourced. I'm sure you will find something great in there!
It's a great time to be a grower, but we should all pay attention to the lessons of the past: never count on other people to preserve and make available the genetics you love. It's here today, gone tomorrow, and if you don't hold it, you don't have it.


Cheers!

Growers that grow for there person use and that would be the majority of growers i know aim to grow the very best and quality is at no1 .

Most smokers are very good judges of the cannabis they smoke and they know the difference between quality and poor cannabis.

Commercial growers are also interested in growing good weed makes no seance to grow a poor product.

Have you even grown Nevil's Haze F1s Raho or even a true 50% haze hybrid F1 ?.

Haze is not pure Raho its a hybrid your post makes many assumptions and claims it as 100% fact yet you clearly have no understanding of the work that was done on haze threw the 80s 90s and till now by people like Nevil Sam and many others.

Nevil did inbreed pure Haze the results were the quality declined in the Haze he even made HzC Square. His posted about this and even Sam tells people to out cross his OHaze as inbreeding dose not improve it.

Nevil was about producing the very best cannabis he could the Grail project was about how to improve haze and that was as Nevil saw it to cross Haze to a pure unrelated sativa preferably a Thai.


The proof is in the seed and like shanti says an empty drum makes the most noise.

 

[Limeygreen]

We just need Leet's Neville's haze cut and I think we'd all be happy to see the best that Neville's haze hybrid had to offer.

 

[50shadesofgreen]

Hempy what is "best" cannabis ? or very best cannabis... ? Do you have definition for this when you claim nevile bred very best cannabis ? The fact it is very best for you or Nevile or some others does not meean it is very best for everyone. It is strong and its potency is outstanding I agree with that, but it simply does not smoke same way as THH. If I coul'd chose I would always chose THH instead NHZ because I just simply like it more. Make yourself a favor and try it also THH or OHZ - whatever you can get your hands on so you can compare against NHZ. I swear you will not be disapointed.
Also I would like to tell OJD that I tried lot of haze crosses or "hazes" at amsterdam coffee shops, they were all good smokes, but I have found zero better than my own home grown haze from THH seeds. I cant speak for OHZ I have never grown it but THH should be derived from OHZ and never outcrossed, so in the fact I grow selected OHZ line by Tom Hill. Tose I tried in Adam were all great I am not saying it was hay, but they could not compare to bliss I receive from THH anytime I smoke it. It is not all about raw potency.
Also I think theres not much about to improve haze as it is already great Maybe thats also why sam just preserve it and didnt try to improve it. Theres just no reason. Only maybe to shorten flowering time...but than again...would it be the same great haze with shortened flowering time ? I do not think so, everything needs its own time. If you shorten it, than it is not the same anymore.... peace

 

[Raho]

Growers that grow for there person use and that would be the majority of growers i know aim to grow the very best and quality is at no1 .

Most smokers are very good judges of the cannabis they smoke and they know the difference between quality and poor cannabis.

Commercial growers are also interested in growing good weed makes no seance to grow a poor product.

Have you even grown Nevil's Haze F1s Raho or even a true 50% haze hybrid F1 ?.

Haze is not pure Raho its a hybrid your post makes many assumptions and claims it as 100% fact yet you clearly have no understanding of the work that was done on haze threw the 80s 90s and till now by people like Nevil Sam and many others.

Nevil did inbreed pure Haze the results were the quality declined in the Haze he even made HzC Square. His posted about this and even Sam tells people to out cross his OHaze as inbreeding dose not improve it.

Nevil was about producing the very best cannabis he could the Grail project was about how to improve haze and that was as Nevil saw it to cross Haze to a pure unrelated sativa preferably a Thai.


The proof is in the seed and like shanti says an empty drum makes the most noise.

This is your thread Hempy.

This is my Seedsman [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ohaze x NL BX scrog.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nothing to do with the work of the current haze kings.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3 gallon pot, coco/perl, drain to waste drip, GH 3 part, under 8 tubes of T5HOs (440 watts).
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Produced over a pound of trimmed dried bud in 100 days of flower.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]S[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]o right at 1 gram per watt.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I did in in a 42 inch tall crawlspace.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Here she is at 70 days (I took her to 100 before harvest.)
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I can't really understand what else you are saying so I'll just leave this here.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]

 

[UniqueFlower4]

Haze-4-Dayz

Haze-4-Dayz

Haze-4-Dayz

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Sam had said time and time again that the only place who had his original haze pure was the Dutchman......wen he released that was now not the same he put some more out to tod, and confirmed tod has his pure original haze(although it seems to be a refined version)...when did sam ever say tom hill haze is pure original haze..
Sam are these small plants that come out of thh that are almost pink or purple your original haze pure?
Looks to me like clearly some people have no experience growing original haze because they would know that thh has definitely got outside blood in it. Grow the two lines and you'll see the difference.....infact ask mac if thh is pure original haze.
People forget things when they haven't been around for 20 years.....cuz the nevils haze I remember it was hard to find 14 week plants...most coffe shops had alterd versions or just other stuff renamed as it..ive had phenotypes with zero body coming from it.......any way ther were lowland lumbos the extreme potency ones that had some body to them....things like the cheeba...wacky weed.....they wernt just happy highs kind to you....have a little day dream type and believe that is tripy....no some realy powerful sativas like these were aggressive....the type people are afraid of......
E ry few years in the last 20 years thers a haze revival......what happened to all the stuff from the last time.....

 

[@hempy]

Give it a rest Raho this Nevil bashing needs to stop i have chatted with Tom hill on his Haze and if you or others think that every seed you germ of THH is going to give you a quality plant then your not being truthful.

If you think every Ohaze seed is going to give you a top quality plant again your not being truthful.

Haze Kings you claim really like they invested or created haze to deserve the title haze kings lol.

Most of you attacking Nevil or his Haze work have not even grown the lines you criticize you grow polys or reproduction seed others made and not the Breeders work.

I have grown sativas for over 40 years i have smoked African Black Tripping weed i have smoked Colombians Thai Panamas list goes on trust me i have a good understanding of what good cannabis is.

The first dutch lines i tried in the mid 80s i thought they were all complete rubbish weak smoke id not bother filling my lungs with.Then in 2000 i discovered Nevil's Haze work.

I know what good cannabis is i dont need any one to lecture me on what is good and whats not.

You lot also forget Nevil used Haze that was the closest to the original parent line.

One of the most underrated lines not one of you have even discussed is Kali Mist that was close to the best Nevil Haze in potency and yet i would bet not one of you would pick up how closely related it was to Haze.


1 NH F1 plant

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Were is the the sandlewood frankincense.....taste that was so so strong it would literally burn the back of your throat....to the point you would think the weed was actually dipped in chrmicals an camphor......were are all these disheveled folk coming out of there houses in a panic looking a complete mess and afraid and giving you the weed back saying they dont ever want to smoke weed again....im still waiting for the stuff from others that could rival that....instead wat I see for example is the efect off one joint if comparing to alcohol like they get happy off one shot....wen your trying to go up against one splif that would be compared to 10 shots and being wrecked....go back to the drawing board...forget the fancy pictures and finding the narowest leaves.....concentrate on the raw power the effect that was once hidden in haze.

 

[CannaT]

When a man reads a post like this of Raho.
It can be seen that behind him stands a strong and open mind.
Behind a strong and open mind, stands the highest quality weed.

Nice one Raho.

I also wanted to write something similar to hempy, but with a language barrier and all that seemed to me a rather difficult task, but when I think about it,it is generally not worth explaining to a person living in his world. Anything from a world he himself denies and does not accept because impotence and non-acceptance of this world forces people to create their own world.
And every attack on their world is actually an attack on themselves.

He has no evidence for his claims, and even when he tries to present evidence, that evidence works against his theory.

It is simple guys OJD,HEMPY and DS.
Like today cuts Amnesia,SSH and other 10 weekers are not so ''Haze'' for you.
for Maha and others NL5xhaze or Nevile's Haze and other Haze Hybrids are not so Original Haze for them.

Get Hazed,I am

 

[wh1p3dm34t]

who the hell bashed anything on nevil ? PLEASE QUOTE IT


or stop drummin on instrument full of sh1t

 

[TheDarkStorm]

When a man reads a post like this of Raho.
It can be seen that behind him stands a strong and open mind.
Behind a strong and open mind, stands the highest quality weed.

Nice one Raho.

I also wanted to write something similar to hempy, but with a language barrier and all that seemed to me a rather difficult task, but when I think about it,it is generally not worth explaining to a person living in his world. Anything from a world he himself denies and does not accept because impotence and non-acceptance of this world forces people to create their own world.
And every attack on their world is actually an attack on themselves.

He has no evidence for his claims, and even when he tries to present evidence, that evidence works against his theory.

It is simple guys OJD,HEMPY and DS.
Like today cuts Amnesia,SSH and other 10 weekers are not so ''Haze'' for you.
for Maha and others NL5xhaze or Nevile's Haze and other Haze Hybrids are not so Original Haze for them.

Get Hazed,I am

I dont have a issue with that Chicago.....but wen someone goes around and at every chance they get and bash haze hybrids and go on and on about pure haze...yet what their talking about is a haze hybrid then obviously they haven't a clue or their purposly dont want you to know the reality....especially when they then take those haze hybrids they constantly call out and make new hybrids and say check out this trippy stuff......did you know that certain people didnt even know that nevil hade made sativa haze hybrids too.....but still they wants you to believe only nl5haze was ever made in what ever form... do you also know that these people who say all this think thh is superior to all other o hazes .....now what they dont realize is if it is really superior why is it suppior....thats simple....cuz its a hybrid.....a hybrid that comes out better than both parents.....i think most of these people know this...but they dont whant you to know...why
I aint seen no proper ssh for 15 odd years...got a picture please

 

[Ganja 13]

Nevil was about producing the very best cannabis he could the Grail project was about how to improve haze and that was as Nevil saw it to cross Haze to a pure unrelated sativa preferably a Thai.

Yes indeed Hempy.

Nevil placed the recipe right under our noses

What I think is worth mentioning is when I asked DJ who had a link to Nevil in the very early Amsterdam day's... "What his thoughts were on the Hawaiian Nevil received from Roger from New York ?"
DJ went on to say that the Hawaiian Haze was his favourite of all the Haze hybrids..... now that is saying something !!!!

It's got me beat why Haze fans are not looking into this particular line for the absolute grail !

I also agree with Thai but also would not discount South Indian, Mexican or Columbian as a sort of backcross which is restoring the potency and vigor to the Haze with it's inbreeding depression to the Haze but also adding a different magical edge with some slightly unrelated pure sativa line into the mix

Namaste

 

[CosmicGiggle]

No Trolling, No Flaming, THANKS!