The growing large plants, outdoors, thread...

[Backyard Farmer]

i have a few ideas on why you had a bad season with the soil you bought ,

really curious how the batches can be SO different.

I had dave mix me up a batch of my blend in April or May and he sent it to me right after blending , I threw it down in a big pile and planted right in it, now I have huge ganja plants.

If you don't make the biology work, then EWSF won't work for you...Never seen them have 68%K , No idea how that's even possible...the nutrient blend that goes in to the norcal mix is almost all calcium or things that contain calcium and protein

 

[Backyard Farmer]

i cant see shit in that pic. wtf breh , is that supposed to be an album cover or the back of a movie cover or some shit ?

doesnt matter what the cross is in that pic i cant see it . all i can see is that it matches the pic in ur avatar

i dont like to be teased.

Talkin about Bamboo crosses....Praise the Ganja Gods!!

 

[epicorchard]

How much should a good soil cost? I usually buy 3 yards per plant of a solid sandy loam/ mushroom compost (full of horse manure) that costs around $44 per yard, then I mix in in amendments. Chicken manure, steamed bone meal, gypsum, dolomite, azomite, green sand, oyster shells,ewc, and kelp.

With amendments i'm at close to $100 a yard. Granted I'm in year one soil, but I think I could still pull down 3-5lbs with a just add water season. But to be clear, I have not tested my soil, or my just add water theory.

 

[epicorchard]

i cant see shit in that pic. wtf breh , is that supposed to be an album cover or the back of a movie cover or some shit ?

doesn't matter what the cross is in that pic i cant see it . all i can see is that it matches the pic in ur avatar

i dont like to be teased.

Totally an album cover; my first one. I just started playing a custom ukulele banjo hybrid, so expect an epic release mid october. Should land big in the Sweedish classical Island Death scene.

Actually I was talking about the creepy way my bamboo forms "crosses" when the sun sets.

 

[milkyjoe]

The soil test I got from Logan Labs on the EWSF soil does not paint a very pretty picture. Calcium at 21.26%, Magnesium at 9.48% and Potassium at a unbelieveable 67.80%. Calcium and Magnesium added together should be 70% to 80% of the exchangable cations with the K being 2 to 5%, not almost 68%. Talk about nutrient lockout? No wonder leaves are turning yellow and dropping. Should we discuss the 7.0 Ph and 0% exchangable hydrogen? If that is not your bag to discuss, maybe nitrogen availability of 0.2 would raise interest.

A second and separate soil test from Logan Labs confirms the first. I had some of the EWSF soil left over and it would not even sprout grass seed. Bad isolated batch? Who knows. But never again, that's for sure. And organic's concerns above are not the first I heard. What about Furry? You know, the post that got deleted. A well respected employee of AEA looked at the soil and told me to trash it at the end of the year. Said it would take 3 or more years to get it into Albrecht's standards.

Do your homework before purchasing from EWSF, that's for sure. If you like what you see, go for it. Don't let someone else do your homework for you. As the old saying goes, Caveat Emptor, "Let the buyer beware".

How did this soil work? Really spindly stems?

Not that it will help now but calcium nitrate can save the day if the ec of soil is not too high. The plant itself does not take up ca in the same ratio as the soil. Partly the ca is there to open up the soil. Plus ca is harder to solubalize than the other cations.

By adding it in a soluble form...cano3...you can still make enough available to the plant. You will shut down some bacteria...make it go dormant...but the tainio stuff will replace it when your ratios improve.

Anyways...if you find yourself in that spot again

 

[Organic Grower]

really curious how the batches can be SO different.

I had dave mix me up a batch of my blend in April or May and he sent it to me right after blending , I threw it down in a big pile and planted right in it, now I have huge ganja plants.

Sounds like a custom blend might be the reason for differences, for starters. Wouldn't you say?

I will surely be mixing up my own soil from here on out. Was hoping that the EWSF would be a good base that I could build on year after year. That does sound like some really far off numbers, bamboo, and I have a feeling theres something screwy with mine too. The results for my test shouldve been back already, but when I called to get an update the receptionist told me the agronomist didn't like something in the test and sent it back for retesting... We'll see..

I like the idea of starting with a good compost and amending from there like epicorchard does. I had pallets of stuff ready to order in March, all priced out and waiting for me to pull the trigger, but I spent the extra money for Daves thinking it would pay off in the boilogical activity and energy of the soil.

Next season will be a different beast altogether.

 

[bamboogardner]

i have a few ideas on why you had a bad season with the soil you bought , really curious how the batches can be SO different. I had dave mix me up a batch of my blend in April or May and he sent it to me right after blending , I threw it down in a big pile and planted right in it, now I have huge ganja plants.

One of the things you said BYF is that you had Dave mix you up a batch of "my blend". Your blend of soil may be completely different than the other soil he is selling. Two different animals. Somewhere or somehow I was delivered a very bad batch of soil. The Logan Labs test do not lie, especially two of them. AEA's field rep confirmed the Logan Lab reports. The soil was out of wack.

The soil was delivered, put into 200 gallon smarties, watered in to a initial 35% moisture reading on a professional moisture meter, and then held at 25% moisture until planting. The soil was not mixed or altered in any way.

Like a batch of beer that is being brewed, sometimes you get a bad one. I think this is the case with my soil. I cannot speak for the others that have had problems with EWSF soil, but the symptoms are the same. Now it is a major fight just to save what is there. It is all going to be spread in the field at the end of this year and being replaced with something that is much closer to established standards for soil that Albrecht has discovered works.

It is time to move on. No bashing someone for what has happened. It is what it is. Learn from it and move forward. I am certainly better off knowledge wise with soil now having read at least 7 books on the topic in the last 2 months then when I started. My mistakes will not occur again. The blame lies with me thinking and believing that the soil would be "plug and play" as the web site states. If it sounds to good to be true, guess what?

 

[furrywall11]

If it was a "bad batch" then there were a lot of them sold.... I have soil tests from three different farms, delivered weeks apart and, they all have those really bad numbers and all of the farms suffered huge financial losses and near mental breakdowns because the soil wasn't as advertised.

Dave Royal's response: You shouldn't have put straw down on your mounds---it upset the fungal balance and that locked up your soil. OH, and new studies are showing that phos levels in soil have no bearing on yield or plant health. Come buy some of my Worm Juice at $250 a container that will fix your problem....not this year, but it might make the soil better for next year. Believe me his tone was quite different when we were sitting in his office and he told me all you needed to add was water...not even PPD.

BYF, you know this and you know the other stories. You're the dude standing out on the side of the road waving a sign for EWSF. Maybe you'll develop a little tact? I doubt it.

For my part I was so sure that with all the hype on ICmag and the $200 a yard price tag the soil was great so I didn't bother to get a soil test until the end of June when my plants were already dropping leaves and showing many types of deficiency.

Don't believe the hype from experts, do your own tests.

 

[epicorchard]

If it was a "bad batch" then there were a lot of them sold.... I have soil tests from three different farms, delivered weeks apart and, they all have those really bad numbers and all of the farms suffered huge financial losses and near mental breakdowns because the soil wasn't as advertised.

Dave Royal's response: You shouldn't have put straw down on your mounds---it upset the fungal balance and that locked up your soil. OH, and new studies are showing that phos levels in soil have no bearing on yield or plant health. Come buy some of my Worm Juice at $250 a container that will fix your problem....not this year, but it might make the soil better for next year. Believe me his tone was quite different when we were sitting in his office and he told me all you needed to add was water...not even PPD.

BYF, you know this and you know the other stories. You're the dude standing out on the side of the road waving a sign for EWSF. Maybe you'll develop a little tact? I doubt it.

For my part I was so sure that with all the hype on ICmag and the $200 a yard price tag the soil was great so I didn't bother to get a soil test until the end of June when my plants were already dropping leaves and showing many types of deficiency.

Don't believe the hype from experts, do your own tests.

mind posting the results from the three bad tests?

 

[furrywall11]

View attachment ewsffarm1.pdf

View attachment ewsffarm2.pdf

View attachment ewsffarm3.pdf

And it's not like I expected to sit back and just add water. I just didn't expect it to be this bad. The soil holds water in a really weird way too.

Anyways, I'm over it. The reason it has a bearing in this thread is because you wont be able to grow large plants if you think EWSF is a complete soil.

 

[bamboogardner]

Well Furry, your tests are almost identical to mine. Over 3 times the amount of K as Ca + Mg added together. The ratio should be 3/1 in the other direction with Ca and Mg equaling 70% approximately of the EC. Over 7.0 Ph with no hydrogen and almost no Nitrogen. Talk about plants dying and leaves turning yellow and falling off. Your atomizer better be your best friend daily just to survive the season.

I am obviously an ignorant and gullible individual. The red flag went up when Dave said to me when I asked him about a soil test and he responded "we don't play that game here". The red flag was waived and I dismissed it. No hard feelings, stupid me!!!

One thing I may ask all my brothers here though. Please don't offer to sell me the Brooklyn Bridge after hyping it up here. I am liable to buy it!!!!!!!!

 

[Yes4Prop215]

damn the ewsf talk is coming up again….im gonna pull some tests of my soil here shortly as well to see whats up. for the most part, i am having my best year ever. plants were super healthy and green up until last week when a few stragglers here and there started to get out of whack a bit. i had 3 glues that just look subpar, but i chalked that up to bad clone starts and a bit of PM. got one grape stomper bx from seed that has been shitty all year even before i planted it, its gone yellow quick, i should have never planted it, i doubt its the soil because the other 2 GSbx right next to it are healthy as can be. and i got 2 coastal collisions from seed that are also struggling a bit, yellow leafs dropping from higher growth, signs of wilt…but also 2 other CC right next to them that are doing very good. all my struggling plants are older stock from march, my april seed starts are charging along full steam ahead and have zero signs of lockout or deficiency. but shit 6 plants out of 72 aint a bad ratio at all, farmers expect to take a small amount of losses each year.

BUT….everything else still looks super healthy. the only thing i do agree with the complaints about ewsf is that the water retention is bad, at least at the top layer. water likes to bounce off the soil like its plastic, thats something I'm not a big fan of. I'm wondering what soil to cover all my mounds with next year, because id like to add at least a yard of different soil to the top of each mound to help water penetrate easier. I've been playing around with vermifire soil on top of several mounds and its water penetration is great.

Guess the only way to know is to pull some tests off my healthy plants mounds and the unhealthy ones. Sucks to hear some people are having big issues with EWSF because i was repping them hard as well….

 

[milkyjoe]

I don't mean to be insensitive but the interesting thing to me is that we are moving to the point we can recognize what a good soil actually looks like and measure it. There was no real discussion like that 4 years ago. We are at the beginnings of developing actual metrics for success.

So in spite of the pain, arguing and egos involved (mine included) ultimately we are all gonna end up better for it. Bless this thread

 

[bamboogardner]

I don't mean to be insensitive but the interesting thing to me is that we are moving to the point we can recognize what a good soil actually looks like and measure it. There was no real discussion like that 4 years ago. We are at the beginnings of developing actual metrics for success.

So in spite of the pain, arguing and egos involved (mine included) ultimately we are all gonna end up better for it. Bless this thread

It is time to move on. No bashing someone for what has happened. It is what it is. Learn from it and move forward. I am certainly better off knowledge wise with soil now having read at least 7 books on the topic in the last 2 months then when I started. My mistakes will not occur again.

Amen Brother. Well said and I can't agree more.

 

[Organic Grower]

Well Furry, your tests are almost identical to mine. Over 3 times the amount of K as Ca + Mg added together. The ratio should be 3/1 in the other direction with Ca and Mg equaling 70% approximately of the EC. Over 7.0 Ph with no hydrogen and almost no Nitrogen. Talk about plants dying and leaves turning yellow and falling off. Your atomizer better be your best friend daily just to survive the season.

What should I be spraying? Most of my plants are already well into flower, probably because they knew they had to finish up quick if they wanted any chance in survival. And maybe all that K promoted it too. Ive resolved to feeding nutrient teas of guanos, their liquid ewc, molasses, kelp meal, alfalfa meal, liquid karma, and krazy kelp. Leaving the high K krazy kelp out now. Maybe I should add some more N if its so low.. PPD? I'm hesitant to spray them this far along. Ive also resolved to some ageold bloom drenches for an even stronger boost..

Harvest can't come soon enough. Talk about mental breakdown man. Its been rough.

 

[epicorchard]

What should I be spraying? Most of my plants are already well into flower, probably because they knew they had to finish up quick if they wanted any chance in survival. And maybe all that K promoted it too. Ive resolved to feeding nutrient teas of guanos, their liquid ewc, molasses, kelp meal, alfalfa meal, liquid karma, and krazy kelp. Leaving the high K krazy kelp out now. Maybe I should add some more N if its so low.. PPD? I'm hesitant to spray them this far along. Ive also resolved to some ageold bloom drenches for an even stronger boost..

Harvest can't come soon enough. Talk about mental breakdown man. Its been rough.

I'm about ready to head to Bali and never come back. Considering I'm working my dream job, its amazing how many times a week I consider feeding someone to my dogs. So far Mo fo's been lucky... lol

 

[milkyjoe]

I would personally love to see the soil test on boobs soil. Pretty damn close to water only.

 

[Organic Grower]

I would personally love to see the soil test on boobs soil. Pretty damn close to water only.

Yea hes got it going on. I think Bulldog420 put together a similar batch and gotmit tested, but he was complaining about high Na and some other things if I remember correctly. Don't know if he did anything different/sourced ingredients from different places

 

[bamboogardner]

What should I be spraying?

Well I think that question is best left to some of the more experienced individuals following this thread, and I certainly would like to hear from them. As for me, I am in uncharted waters. Since there is low nitrogen, I am adding that to the regime, but in small quantities. Calcium is also added, along with the regular AEA regime of micro nutrients that I have been doing all season. Absolutely no K or Mg since it is so high in the soil already. When I see leaves starting to yellow, I am spraying with some extra nitrogen.

I myself would appreciate the "experienced" agronomist here to add their thoughts to the problem of which several people are having with their EWSF soil here, especially since Furry attached copies of his soil sample, all of which seem the same from EWSF.

Come on in guys and help us all out with your recommendations. Experienced agronomist only. No faith based guesses needed please.

 

[Shcrews]

I would personally love to see the soil test on boobs soil. Pretty damn close to water only.

We are using the soil mix that boobs posted (modified it slightly) and it's working out well. Nothing but plain water so far. Definitely seems better than vermifire that we are using in a few pots. havent gotten the soil tested though