Thai from Chiang Mai

[Cactus Wes]

OK, tomorrow I will give a full 48hrs of darkness.

If I May recommend my tried and true method of sexing plants;
First, the plant will require a minimum of 5 sets of true leaves.
When I want to sex my plants at this point;
I will dim, or raise my lights or remove the plants from under direct light for three hours, in the middle of a light cycle.
We don't want them to fall asleep.
Some plants I have had to do it 2 days in a row maybe 3. And I will know the sex of the plants by the third or fourth day. (males typically show first)
Less stress with No time lost.

Also another pro tip;
In flowering; avoid moving the plant and the light more than just up and down. Real Sativa's when flowering are super sensitive to light and some genetics can hermi at the slightest light stress this include having the light shine on a different side of the plant or the top-top kola growing outside of the light footprint or higher than the light.
You will ensure the best outcome with this in mind.
Cheers

 

[sativaman514]

One week went by, and both plants are now really kicking it in flowering mode. New leaves starts to display super narrow slim fingers, just as described by dubi, and seen with the male grown earlier when the plant turned in bloom.

Phenotype 1, the one that got pruned and toped, is showing a columnar structure with 4 mains, almost of the same height. Gotta keep an eye on the tallest, I've seen it with the male, plant just never stop stretching, and a single taller brach will grow higer than the canopy in only a few days. This plant seems very sensible to nutrients. I wonder if growing Thai in super soil is the best option, as it need to stay in a small container to contain height, but cannot tolerate rich soil that allow water only. I think growing with organic bottled nutes, and-or maybe worm casting teas, would be the best for this strain.

Phenotype 2, was supercroped after a strong come back, did not really grew any taller this week. Supercrop job looked rough the following days, but the plant bounced back and shows a great top flower debut.

 

[sativaman514]

Dear dubi and all other breeding savy users,
Reading back the official description on ACE site about these Thai Standard, it is described as P3 to P5 landrace. What does the P stand for? Is this the equivalent of F(x) in hybrid breedind? At what point, after how many generations of selective breeding, would a landrace be considered an IBL?

 

[sativaman514]

double post

 

[mack 10]

Parent...

 

[mack 10]

Anywhere from 5 to 8plus.
Depends on the genetics and environment

 

[sativaman514]

Parent...

Well, that's what I thought. What about second part of the Q?, after how many generations of *selective breeding* does it become an IBL

 

[sativaman514]

too quick ahahhha!! thanks =)

 

[sativaman514]

And nothing wrong for me with selective breeding, and IBL. Don't need to make it complicated, ACE have always been very friendly and open about their breeding.

 

[Legalcdn]

2 thai popped at different weeks. They are in red pots. The green pots contain the tribute to CBG Destroyer. Looking forward to this grow. If i need a female due to more males , i will pop some Thai x Pan or Golden Tiger.

 

[Legalcdn]

And nothing wrong for me with selective breeding, and IBL. Don't need to make it complicated, ACE have always been very friendly and open about their breeding.

How are the Thai plants doing? How long did it take to show pistils at 11/13hr?

Mine are at 25 days from breaking soil.

 

[sativaman514]

They took about a month of 11-13 to show pistils, but I guess I could have veg an extra week and would have took less time.. They were sent in bloom after only 4 weeks of vegetation.

Both plants are doing well. Got 2 different pheno. Both were transplanted 2 weeks ago, from a nursery pot #2 to 7gal containers, all organic soil. This week I am getting suprised by some extra stretching, about 6 more inches. Light schedule was reduced at 9.5-14.5, because I have about 10 inches left for them to grow.

1st one is definitely the one with the sharp lemon Thai smell. She got topped before flip, responded very well to it and grew 4 mains stems of 1m tall, very columnar shape. She ran out of K before transpant, and her leaves faded pale green despite some N toxicity. Curiously, she expresses some double serations on bigger mature fan leaves. A beautiful, sexy, elegant, slender tropical Sativa with super narrow fingers !!

2nd pheno was supercroped at flip. she really bouced back growing a mass of bud shot, while lateral branches catched up. Her smell is still unknown when looking at ACE's description. Only thing I get when rubbing stem and smelling flowers is some very light incense smell.


PICS:
1, both plants.
2 & 3, Lemon Thai pheno
4, Lemon Thai with double serations
5, pheno #2

 

[dubi]

Looking lovely @sativaman514 showing now classic pure Thai leaves and growth traits. As i explained in the strain description, some individuals of this Thai release like to grow with moderate wide leaves at seedling stage, but later they display the expected very thin leaves and pure Thai-like growth and flowering.

Regarding notation, F is used for hybrids while i prefer to use P notation for pure, non hybridized landrace lines. Being P1 the original seeds of the landrace collected in situ in its place of origin, P2 second generation of the strain reproduced in pure form ex situ, P3 = 3rd generation of the pure strain reproduced ex situ, etc ....

The Phylos genetic analysis performed to our P1 mother shows this Thai strain was already very homogeneous and uniform, meaning it was originally already an IBL.

Not all landraces are so uniform, for example our Lebanese shows more diversity, meaning it was reproduced in its place of origin using many more different parental plants than this Thai did, the Thai probably came from smaller populations.

A landrace or a hybrid can be considered as an IBL when consistently produces the same group of traits generation after generation after being reproduced by itself (=inbreeding). So it takes more or less generations for a line to become an IBL depending how heterozygous originally was and how was the inbreeding process. If every generation you use very divergent parental plants to reproduce the line then the next generation will still be quite heterozygous, while if you for example self pollinate a single female every generation then the line will become uniform and homozygous quicker, so there's not a number of fix generations for a given line to become an IBL, it depends a lot on how homozygous/heterozygous line was and how the inbreeding process was.

All the best with yours Legalcdn

 

[Podenco]

Lovely plants Sativaman. I bought some ACE thai as well so I'll be following your plants.

P

 

[sativaman514]

These plants are really pushing it, still growing after a solid 10 weeks from flip. Plants have been floweing for about 6 weeks. They are pushing this setup to the limit.

I am really close from having to take action. They are at the limit of the lamps footprint, I can scratch an inch or 2, but if they don't stop to stretch, I will have to decide between supercrop all tops, cut the apexes, or let them go over the lamps up to the tent's celling.... *sight* ... Please, give me your suggestion =)

Good news are, everything looks nice and even, plants are healthy and vigorous. Also, they seems to have started to develop so maybe they are naturally progressing in flowering...

Here are a few things that could have been done to minimize overall stretch: Keeping them in their containers longer before final transplant, despite soil was depleted, could have used some worms teas or fish emulsion. Dropping light schedule to final 10-14 (here 9.5-14.5) one or two weeks before final transplant. Using veg designed light system for the first half of flowering, like a classic MH or some high Kelvin rated LED (here it's 3500K). Using more wind stress. Hope it can help fellow growers.

Pheno 1, last pic
Pheno 2, first pic before last

 

[Legalcdn]

Beautiful plants @sativaman514 . You might try supercropping. I did that to some tall swazigold and wrapped them around a large tomato cage.

@ 10 weeks from flip you have 6-8 weeks left? I will flip mine this week I hope. Good tip on container size. Mine are stretching pretty good with 17-7hr. I topped both my thai plants and I will keep them in 7 litre (2 gal) containers. After flipping and determining sex, they will go in 11 litre pots with scrog. All will be grown in coco with jacks 321 (with reduced nitrogen). Hope to post pics soon but fighting COVID right now. At least my plants are on a autowater system.

 

[sativaman514]

Beautiful plants @sativaman514 . You might try supercropping. I did that to some tall swazigold and wrapped them around a large tomato cage.

@ 10 weeks from flip you have 6-8 weeks left? I will flip mine this week I hope. Good tip on container size. Mine are stretching pretty good with 17-7hr. I topped both my thai plants and I will keep them in 7 litre (2 gal) containers. After flipping and determining sex, they will go in 11 litre pots with scrog. All will be grown in coco with jacks 321 (with reduced nitrogen). Hope to post pics soon but fighting COVID right now. At least my plants are on a autowater system.

Hope you are doing well. Growing in coco sounds great for Thai since it is very forgiving and easy to adjust any excess or def.
... @ 10 weeks from flip you have 6-8 weeks left? ... Nope, flower days count should start when flower formation begin. I am 6 weeks in ATM. Looking at 10 more weeks to go!
Good luck on sexing, wish you great pheno!

 

[Podenco]

Looking good. If your plants are anything like mine (Kerala and Kibungan) I would just start bending/knacking them horizontally. It looks like you have room to the sides you can fill. Maybe cut a few branches "strategically", to make room to bend others.

P

 

[sativaman514]

Looking good. If your plants are anything like mine (Kerala and Kibungan) I would just start bending/knacking them horizontally. It looks like you have room to the sides you can fill. Maybe cut a few branches "strategically", to make room to bend others.

P

I found your plants and they are very, very nice =) Superb growing skills and great use of your space. I hope flowers on these Thai turns has nice as yours!

 

[dubi]

Hi @sativaman514 not easy to grow such extreme tropical sativas as pure Thais indoors.
To avoid more stretching at this stage and to encourage bud tightening, lower down the feeding with nitrogen and try to avoid peaks of heat at the tops of the plant.