Not their Super Cheese that's for sure. Some of the worst plants I've ever grown. Thankfully they were gifted.
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TH seeds discontinuing their regular seeds?
- Thread starter bigbadbiddy
- Start date
Not their Super Cheese that's for sure. Some of the worst plants I've ever grown. Thankfully they were gifted.
T
Timm
Nirvana provided me with some of the worst bud i've ever grown
Fem seeds done properly are not that bad at all. I'm not sure why everyone bitches about them I've only ever had 1 true hermie (cali connection)
It's good to have the option of fem seeds. If you don't like them don't buy
Fem seeds done properly are not that bad at all. I'm not sure why everyone bitches about them I've only ever had 1 true hermie (cali connection)
It's good to have the option of fem seeds. If you don't like them don't buy
Myth: Feminized seeds come from hermaphrodite plants. Therefore the offspring will be hermaphrodites.
Not true. Although many people may call seeds made from hermaphrodite pollen 'feminized', the feminized seeds sold by most breeders are female plants that have been chemically reversed. There is a big difference.
Hermaphroditism is a genetic trait. Plants with this marker will pass it on to the offspring whether a male is used in the breeding or not.
Reversing a female plant via chemical application will not alter the dna of a plant, therefore it cannot create intersex traits in the offspring. If neither parent has this trait, then the seeds won't either. Whether the seeds are femmed or regular is not relevant.
Myth: Feminized seeds weaken the gene pool.
Not true. Inbreeding weakens the genepool. You can inbreed with reversed female pollen, it's called selfing. You can also inbreed with male pollen. It's called backcrossing (though I suppose you can also backcross with reversed pollen as well).
There is not really any difference between crossing 2 different females together and crossing a female with a male. In both cases you are getting 2 different genetic inputs.
Personally I like both regular and feminized seeds. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. To preserve a line, regular seeds are much easier and in many ways better. To sort through the potential and work a line, reversing is easier, faster, and often more accurate. I like to do both to preserve a line because when you come back to it there are more options and directions you can go.
Not true. Although many people may call seeds made from hermaphrodite pollen 'feminized', the feminized seeds sold by most breeders are female plants that have been chemically reversed. There is a big difference.
Hermaphroditism is a genetic trait. Plants with this marker will pass it on to the offspring whether a male is used in the breeding or not.
Reversing a female plant via chemical application will not alter the dna of a plant, therefore it cannot create intersex traits in the offspring. If neither parent has this trait, then the seeds won't either. Whether the seeds are femmed or regular is not relevant.
Myth: Feminized seeds weaken the gene pool.
Not true. Inbreeding weakens the genepool. You can inbreed with reversed female pollen, it's called selfing. You can also inbreed with male pollen. It's called backcrossing (though I suppose you can also backcross with reversed pollen as well).
There is not really any difference between crossing 2 different females together and crossing a female with a male. In both cases you are getting 2 different genetic inputs.
Personally I like both regular and feminized seeds. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. To preserve a line, regular seeds are much easier and in many ways better. To sort through the potential and work a line, reversing is easier, faster, and often more accurate. I like to do both to preserve a line because when you come back to it there are more options and directions you can go.
latscholax
New member
The "weakening" of the genepool is more an issue of the effect that most companies (like TH) go the easy way by producing only Mulit-/Polyhybrid fems. no need for them to go searching and stabilizing landrace strains, cause they simply miss the marketing factor. Less work, more profit, but in the longrun no fresh material is coming in and this results in genetic depression. Everywhere people are complaing about loss of quality in coffeeshops, everything tastes the same, or this and that classic strain(especially from the classic dutch breeders) isn't as good as it once was. When they loose parents and want to recreate a strain with genetic material from inside Europe, it's difficult to find individuals that don't have a big part of their genepool in common, so the crossing wouldn't be as good as the "classic".
For me it looks like there's much less actual breeding involved than to run to get the latest Elite hype of the month cut from anybody, spray it with STS an cross to every mother in the stable and look what promises profit...
Forgive me my poor English i'm no native
For me it looks like there's much less actual breeding involved than to run to get the latest Elite hype of the month cut from anybody, spray it with STS an cross to every mother in the stable and look what promises profit...
Forgive me my poor English i'm no native
All cannabis seeds are capable of producing male or female flowers given the right conditions.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
How does it change the equation that the hermaphrodism is induced through colloidal silver?
IF that is the way how the seeds were feminized.
Seeds can also be feminized through inducing hermaphrodism through stress, if the trait is already present, can it not?
Are you saying that plants who were made to herm with colloidal silver (for example) do not actually turn hermy and when you for example reveg them they will no longer be a hermy?
Because that would be the first I hear of that theory.
But You might be able to land a job with TH or Serious et al because I am pretty sure they subscribe to the same theory as can be seen by their watered down stock and hermy traits in so much of their gear.
IF that is the way how the seeds were feminized.
Seeds can also be feminized through inducing hermaphrodism through stress, if the trait is already present, can it not?
Are you saying that plants who were made to herm with colloidal silver (for example) do not actually turn hermy and when you for example reveg them they will no longer be a hermy?
Because that would be the first I hear of that theory.
But You might be able to land a job with TH or Serious et al because I am pretty sure they subscribe to the same theory as can be seen by their watered down stock and hermy traits in so much of their gear.
My name is stoney im a seed junkie lol.... Interesting thread..... Today i hear feminized seed seem much more stable then when herming shit on purpose was new..science supposedly came along way again so I hear... . I personally don't support feminized seed never bought any ever and won't... Its really just a short cut not worth it if avoidable.. Why introduce that... Feminized seed is good to get clone only phenos out to the public around the world who have no access to cuts who just want a copy but to be used in breeding is opening doors to future problems.....
And it's sad but true u can't blame the seed co and breeders for this .... They make a product for sale ... Supply n demand..... The masses want feminized... shit it wouldn't be good for business not to sell them.... U got to cater to ur customers... There will always be solid breeders out there who do it for more then $$$ willing to put in the work but they are becoming rarer and rarer as yrs pass....
And it's sad but true u can't blame the seed co and breeders for this .... They make a product for sale ... Supply n demand..... The masses want feminized... shit it wouldn't be good for business not to sell them.... U got to cater to ur customers... There will always be solid breeders out there who do it for more then $$$ willing to put in the work but they are becoming rarer and rarer as yrs pass....
And the winner is Arf.
The genes for both staminate (male) and pistillate (female) flowers are contained on the chromosomes shared by both males and females.
I can take any female plant and make it produce male flowers, and I can take any male plant and make it produce female flowers. This is only possible because each sex contains the genes for both types of floral development. Only the triggers are different.
Now I understand stoney917's position, but I hope he will change his mind once he understands how female:female breedings and selfing actually allow breeders to make faster gains than traditional male:female breedings.
That is certainly not to say that this is how commercial cannabis breeding is being done, or that the feminized seeds you can buy today from a multitude of seed sellers are made properly. However, there is also no denying that the use of "reversing" selected female plants of value (based on their chemical profiles and contents, or yield, or floral structure and character) to obtain pollen containing all of those characteristics, is the fastest and most accurate way of selecting pollen donors. Much more accurate than trying to select males, since males do not express any of these characteristics. I say if she is good enough to be used as a seed mother, she is good enough to be used as a pollen donor.
I challenge any of you that have never grown feminized seeds to take your best clone and self it. This is how you determine how true-breeding the plant is- immediately in the S1 you will be able to determine how heterozygous the original clone really is. Right away you see which traits are heritable and reliable in the original clone, and you also expose all the hidden potential buried in the background, you can tell right away if there are hidden negative traits in the line (intersex, genetic weaknesses, etc) Your progeny also become %50 more uniform and true breeding in every self generation. Which means when you actually go ahead and make a hybrd cross from the now true-breeding line, the hybrid progeny will be much more uniform.
I say don't knock it until you try it - how anyone can say all female seeds are bad without ever having grown any, is kind of ridiculous.
Don't rely on someone else's selection if you don't trust a given seed bank to make good parental selections - do the experiment yourself, at home, with your best clone and learn about how traits are inherited from your own valuable stock. I think all that have never done this, nor ever grown "feminized" seeds will be quite shocked and surprised by the quality of the results.
I will happily buy 100 selfs from anyone holding verified elite S1 stock!
latscholax
New member
Hi Chim,
For my part i don't knock on the ability of the plantz producing herm traits to get Fems, i bought them, i've grown them, i made them myself to preserve. It's generally a good thing; many people would buy what is called elite stock in seedform including myself.
But the reality is different. What about TH, GH, Sensi, Paradise etc.. don't read many good reviews about them in the last years, paralell to the "rise of the fems". Very many breeders appeared, selling only fem no reg, tons of new "strains" in no time, few good, an lots of rubbish.
It makes breeding too easy; actually less breeding more $$$ i suppose.
Thats why i don't like this developement..
For my part i don't knock on the ability of the plantz producing herm traits to get Fems, i bought them, i've grown them, i made them myself to preserve. It's generally a good thing; many people would buy what is called elite stock in seedform including myself.
But the reality is different. What about TH, GH, Sensi, Paradise etc.. don't read many good reviews about them in the last years, paralell to the "rise of the fems". Very many breeders appeared, selling only fem no reg, tons of new "strains" in no time, few good, an lots of rubbish.
It makes breeding too easy; actually less breeding more $$$ i suppose.
Thats why i don't like this developement..
You increase the Ethylene levels by using something like
2-chloroethanephosphonic acid which goes by the name of Ethepon, or Florel. You can find it on eBay, you use it as a folar spray.
I think it's because people want Female seeds, males are pretty worthless unless you are going to do some breeding yourself. Most seed buyers just want to grow and smoke, and it hurts the wallet to buy seeds which are half males that you are going to cull anyway. It gets even more important when you get into the auto flower seeds, because you can't keep a mother plant to clone in veg, you become the ultimate female seed consumer.
indeed, just look at the regs market, swamped with tested & stable geneti...oh wait no
E
egodeath
People voted with their money :
"People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis, you can't trust people Jez."
"People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis, you can't trust people Jez."
If you buy Ace seeds you buy from a company from which it's hard to find a bad review, if there are bad reviews.
In the past I've bought close to 70% of my seeds from them. In the future it will be close to 100%. Check out the Thanks Dubi thread.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=318201
Great seeds, great customer service, great people. I hope you (or anyone else) can do someething with this post.
Siever
I know I'm prejudice.... I got fuct good back in the day dp.... Rotflmao... But with today's science I'm sure fem seeds are much more stable ... Shit they are made on purpose reversing things ....
Idk what would make me buy feminized version of a strain????? I see how far it's come but when it comes to s1 it's a knockoff now the ppl that reverse one elite to another that's a bit different and opens a lot of doors.... I may not pop the seed but the cuts find me eventually....
Male plants imo r much more important.... Anyone can get a clone there a million but to find a good male is priceless.... And the right male is the right path to success especially if it's for u... I buy seeds but bank on my studs..
