Terra Preta - Dark Soil - Experiment

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Hey thats awesome information there konstantgrdnr!

I really liked the part "terra preta has increased crop yields by as much as 800 percent" and "Rich in humus, pieces of pre-Columbian unfired clay pottery and black carbon, it's a "microbial reef" that promotes and sustains the growth of mycorrhizae and other benificial microbes and it has been shown to retain its fertility for thousands of years"

The article recommends 30% charcoal which helps.

Really interesting that this type of soil has been found in other places around the world.

Keep up the good work people!

Looks like the world is starting to embrace its use again.

 

[ThaiPhoon]

Hey guys, I found the following science forum on Terra Preta...I have just started sifting through it...

http://forums.hypography.com/terra-preta.html

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Good find Thaiphoon!

Lots of reading to do over there...

 

[jaykush]

nice TP, that link looks familiar from back in the ofc or somewhere. either way good stuff i bet we all forgot it.

to start out with our own discussion lets look at some of there soil mixes.

To All,

I thought we might need a thread on how we use Terra Preta and results.

I took the liberty to put on a couple from other sources.

Mine: I have solid clay - no SOM soil that I am amending. I have made charcoal from pine and biochar from kitchen wastes, pine needles (to lower soil ph- wild idea of mine), and mule manure. About 50% charcoal, 10% kitchen wastes, and 20% both pine needles and manure. I am composting it with regular compost material; kitchen scraps, dead leaves, grass clippings and a fair amount of Bone Meal, about 5 times recommendation for my size of garden (this replaces the fish “residue”, bones, and turtle shells that the Amazonians had in their mix). I don’t have the time to compost this correctly because I got a late start but it will have about 6 weeks before I till it into the clay on April 9 – 11. I will let this sit in the soil until I plant on May 12. This is a VERY experimental mix for my particular soil. I will plant shade tolerate garden crops of which I am still trying to figure out what. Right now absolutely nothing grows there and hasn’t for two years. After all the snow melted it has grown a green slime across the top but I don’t consider this a “crop”. I am very interested to see what weeds I get between April and May as this will show if I have a fertile soil or not.

This was from Make do:
We're using a typical 55 gal drum charcoal maker to produce so far hardwood and softwood charcoal, and plan to try these other sources over 2007; One or more sources may prove to provide biochar suited to northern new England. To date we've been growing wheat and chia as test species, in trays of 75% vermiculite, 25% hardwood charcoal, The controls with no charcoal; both with rainwater and sea solids. Wheat roots grew approximately 50% faster in the biochar-mixed ones than the control ones, The Brix (refractive index, or nutrient density) was about 40% higher in the stems of the charcoaled wheat, but around 50% lower in the roots than the control wheat. Interesting potential for wheat-farming.

This was from Janice Thies posted on the original thread:
Lastly, from my personal gardening experiences, I use spent charcoal from the filters of the 14 aquaria I maintain for my viewing pleasure. I combine it as about 5% of my mix with 65% peat moss, 10% vermicompost (from my worm bin in my basement where I compost all my household kitchen waste - aged and stabilized, not fresh!), 5-10% leaf mulch (composted on my leafy property in NY), 5-7% perlite to increase drainage, decrease bulk density and improve water retention and percolation, and some bone meal and blood meal (to taste ). This makes an excellent potting mix for my indoor 'forest'. I am very much still playing around with this.

 

[Guest]

Here's a nice find - DIY!

Charcoal retort

Recycling the gases to aid in the charcoal making makes sense to me. This wee system looks easily sufficient for the home gardener.

I'm not sure about his using wood scraps from building sites. The cyanide etc will eat away at those barrels of his and they'll not last nearly as long as without those type substances burning in them.

I'm still trying to find the solar char maker I saw at one time. If you find it please link us up.

 

[jaykush]

nice find bongsong i like how he describes it as being a big show. i dont think id be able to do that around here wayyy to big, maybe we can dumb it down for smaller uses thats a hell of a lot of charcoal.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Yeah that looks like a beast of a BBQ!

Cool how it captures the gases and burns em off.

My Reclining Buddahs are going well in their new homes. All plants show about the same growth rate. The coco girl is bit bushier.

Pics soon.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

@Bongsong
Heres a link to a discussion on a Solar Parabolic Trough Charcoal Oven
http://forums.hypography.com/scienc...465-solar-parabolic-trough-charcoal-oven.html


How to build a small charcoal kiln
These small kilns may not process much wood in one go but are quick and easy to build, transport and use. They can be used to make both artists and BBQ charcoal.

You will need

* An old oil drum or metal dustbin.
* Three or four bricks
* Something to use as a lid.

How to build it

1. If you are using a drum, one end needs to be removed. If the top has not been removed, cut the top out using a chisel or an angle grinder.
2. Cut some holes in the base of the drum or bin. About a dozen openings of an inch or two should be fine.
3. Place the drum or bin, with its open end up, on bricks to enable air to flow through the holes you have cut in the base.
4. You will need a lid - perhaps a metal dustbin lid or something similar.

How you use it

1. Start a fire in a bottom of the kiln using paper, cardboard and larger kindling.
2. Once you have a strong fire, load your branch wood randomly into the kiln leaving air gaps.
3. When the fire is burning really well, restrict the air intake by banking earth around the base but leave a small (4 inch) gap. Place the lid partially on so that smoke can still excape.
4. Thick white steamy smoke is created during the charring process. Bang or shake the kiln to settle the contents and create more smoke when the process seems to have slowed.
5. When the smoke changes to thin blue smoke the water has been driven off and the charcoal is burning. Close off all the air intakes at the base with more earth and close the lid fully. Make it as air tight as possible.
6. The burn will continue for three to four hours and should then be left to cool for another 24 hours before the kiln is tipped over and emptied of the charcoal you have produced.

http://www.stewardwood.org/resources/DIYcharcoal.htm

 

[jaykush]

well got some random discovery today might not even mean anything but i had some extra charcoal soil left and i accidentally broke a branch off a young bamboo shoot. well i stuck it in wondering if it would root. come to my surprise 3-4 days later it had small roots about half inch long when i popped it out for a look. now that would seem normal other than when i rooted it in water and in a soilless mix it took 2 weeks+ to root the same size cuts and from the same plant. so how bout cloning in a TP mix? oh yea this was from the mix that had been sitting since i first started, left outside and it got some rain every now and then.

 

[ThaiPhoon]

That's cool JK...All the nurseries here actually sell cutting of many types of plants in small growbags packed with rice husk charcoal! I think having it set out and weather a bit may also help bring the ph down a bit. I haven't tested that theory, but I do believe ash/charcoal to have an alkaline ph...

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Yeah from what i read in that other forum acid loving plants may struggle in terra preta... isnt the charcoal inert? I ph tested some water that was sitting in the charcoal and noticed no drastic change in ph.

What does this mean for dolomite lime?

Would the standard 1 tbsp per gallon be too much maybe? I noticed some ill effects to my sativa (maroc/afghani) with a mix of coco, terra preta and dolomite. This was only a short shock and plant recovered no worries in few days... had kinda wrinkled/mishapen leaves... the indica dominant plants were fine...

Hey thats very interesting news Jaykush! What ratio of charoal etc did you use do you know? What ratio do ya reckon is used in Thailand ThaiPhoon??

 

[ThaiPhoon]

I've made a soil mix of the following stuff a few days ago. I think it will be alright...I've got some seedlings coming up that will be going into this mix in a few weeks time.

by volume
3 parts coco coir
.75 part used coffee grounds
1.50 part rice hulls
1.50 part EWC
1.75 part rice hull charcoal
1 part compost (from different batches of old bokashi compost)
.50 part re-use soil
To that I mixed in a little (less than a tablespoon) of dolomite lime, about 3 TBS of Azomite, 1TBS Thai Bat guano, A few tablespoons of local organic dry ferts.
Moistened that mix with oxygenated fish pond water.

The cuttings sold at the nursery are in 100% rice husk charcoal. I don't know what Ph range those particular plants are at tho..

Here is a small hill of rice husk charcoal. This is the stuff I am using.

I wash the stuff before using it. I think it cleans any excess ash that may be there. Then I soaked it in some ewc/fishpond water before mixing it in.

 

[Guest]

Thai, I've read where rice hulls have a high silca content making them hard to burn. You seeing this? Any experience? Probably nothing important to our hobby. Just personal info gathering on my part.

 

[ThaiPhoon]

Old fool, Rice hulls are not hard to burn. There are many places in the area that make the stuff. I think one of the industries that use the stuff is the silica industry in some way. I know they burn heaps of it, and the locals are not putting it in the soil. I just assume they haven't heard of Terra Preta...

 

[jaykush]

i am doing 4-5 mixes.
ca= castings ch=charcoal(natural from nature i gathered it up from about 4 different species and mixed equal parts) ach=activated charcoal pe=perlite ss=sterile soil
(these are estimates i do not measure)

1.10%ca/40%ss/20%ch/30%pe
2.10%ca/40%ss/30%ch/20%pe
3.20%ca/30%ss/30%ch/20%pe
4.10%ca/40%ss/30%ach/20%pe

hey its from some left over soil from i think mix #2 or #1, just real surprised how fast it rooted. time to try some different plants see what happens.

 

[jaykush]

found this, i think we can use it to make small amounts of different char for soil test mixes on clones or whatever. im wondering if it depends on the source of char, or if multiple sources helps. anyways its small and easy as hell to make and use hopefully it works well. im going to make one today.

http://www.instructables.com/id/mini-charcoal-maker/

 

[Guest]

Fine links people. I'm 20 of 27 web pages through the solar parabola thread...

So far it looks like you need lots of area (hard to make portable to do volume) or fresnel lenses look very promising.

Still reading....

My pepper in TP (tera preta) is much bigger than the Pepper in AP (Aquaponics). It has also coped with overheating (forgot to turn on fan), and drying out (forgot to water) yet still is winning the race handily.

The two wee clones are also doing very well. They didn't seem to like the mix when very small, seemed a bit hot, probably the use of AP water when not thinking one day.

But now they've grown a wee bit, - they're very healthy plants and growing fast. I have them in soil outdoors now, 50 litre holes with
10 litres original tera preta (from pots they grew in)
40 litres compost from bin (black earth full of worms)
Couple handfuls larger tera preta chunks in bottom of hole before adding soil.

This is a site that only gets half the days sun. They look as healthy as Suby's wee plants do!

Also giving them neem every 4-5 days.

My AP is NOT growing as fast as these but it's problematic and not tuned in lately. The clones and pepper have all left the competition behind. Go TP!

 

[jaykush]

heres one for thaiphoon. make your own rice charcoal has some info too.

http://www.buddel.de/kft/terra_preta_english.htm

 

[Guest]

OMG jay that link is the business!

I'm seeing a trend that TP plus compost is netting the best results.

I theorise the compost accelerates the establishment of microherd and provides nutrition for all concerned.

I also see a lot of 'Western Gardeners' experimenting by planting single type crops per plot, and netting minimal results if any.

Biodiversification - permaculture - provides a huge headstart to getting a microherd running. - They're already there and, they're more diverse.

I also notice a lot of 'Western' tilling practises in the experiments. - Dig it all up each season....

This is one reason why microherds are not establishing properly, and these gardeners will never get their TP experiments to run impressively, imo. They are tearing apart the m. fungi network, all the work the worms have done, and more.

imo, TP will net better results over time tilled in once and then no tilling employed. Additional TP can be added mixed with other compost material on top as mulch and as time goes by the soil is built up in this manner. Alternately, a drilling method, like drilling seeds, could be employed to add further additions of TP in grain - pellet sizes.

I was a very good market 'gardener'. I could dig stuff up and pour on ferts till you saw large pretty crops of nutritionally poor vegetables. It was rubbish and I was rubbishing the land I worked on, but that is what I knew.

TP is exciting and all these folk who 'know' how to garden are jumping on the bandwagon, and the more the merrier! But many are poorly educated, or worse, as I was.

We are learning that thousands of years ago people were far better gardeners than we are now. Yet so many experimenters with this 'exciting new discovery' are still missing the point.

Still pouring in chem ferts with their TP, still tearing up their fields each crop, still planting huge fields of one thing then running into the usual pests and diseases associated with this practise.

TP, imo, will shine, as it should, if left alone to develop in the soil.

When we look to nature at most any place rich in growth we see

No tilling, mulch/ground cover (water/heat management, worm food, insect housing, etc) water supply/drainage, and species diversification.

Most of us know this already. It'll help, with this in mind, when sifting through the many experiments 'cropping' up.

You too may see emerging trends, and I hope share the insight here.

Check out where people aren't trying to push natures boundaries, and are following common sense with regards to

Seasons, crop suitability, soil practise.

The better results, imo, know about 'feeding the soil & not the plant'.

If I sound like I'm on my soapbox, tell me off already, and garden smarter!

 

[jaykush]

I'm seeing a trend that TP plus compost is netting the best results.

I theorise the compost accelerates the establishment of microherd and provides nutrition for all concerned.

well i agree with you but honestly i think mixing compost with soil with charcoal is the very very bottom of how to make TP work well. i think with specialized amending, nutrients, teas, crop rotations, no tilling, and micro cultures will result in the best outcome. and sadly the only tests i see only go so far and some even using synthetic nutrients?...lol

Biodiversification - permaculture - provides a huge headstart to getting a microherd running. - They're already there and, they're more diverse.

I also notice a lot of 'Western' tilling practises in the experiments. - Dig it all up each season....

This is one reason why microherds are not establishing properly, and these gardeners will never get their TP experiments to run impressively, imo. They are tearing apart the m. fungi network, all the work the worms have done, and more.

imo, TP will net better results over time tilled in once and then no tilling employed. Additional TP can be added mixed with other compost material on top as mulch and as time goes by the soil is built up in this manner. Alternately, a drilling method, like drilling seeds, could be employed to add further additions of TP in grain - pellet sizes.

man the whole world has the "till every season" on there brain, i do think it is necessary to till on new gardens that arent established for a year or so, then once things are going you let nature do its work by itself. the unworked soil here is hard as a rock.

though if i remember from somewhere the amazonians took the top layer of TP for thier use all the time and left the bottom and it replenished itself.


now i know this would work piece of cake outdoors but indoors in pots how would this work? would long bed grows be more efficient with a small worm population and no till practice on a small scale.

time to smoke and think about this some more.