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Tents lined with PVC will kill your plants immediately and you slowly.

varriform

Member
Hey everybody,
I don't know how much or how thoroughly this has been discussed but I have noticed alot of people coming up with all kinds of stories explaining the death of their plants in grow tents. I don't know much about this, as a matter of fact, I just heard about it a little while ago. But it seems obvious to me that a PVC grow tent is a rediculous idea and could only be made in china.
I was shopping around for a tent a couple weeks back when I noticed that they were lined with PVC. As soon as I knew that there was no way something like that would be holding my plants. I don't even buy PVC for normal uses much less around stuff I am planning on consuming.


I will try to make this short, but I will provide some links for more information.
So I don't come off too preachy or opinionated I will be cut and pasting alot of this.

This is an abstract from an article that I would of had to pay for to get the whole thing.
The use of controlled environments is subject to problems from contaminants emitted from materials of the system and from plants. Many contaminants are difficult to identify because injurious dosages are very low, there is a lack of information on what compounds injure plants, because species and cultivars differ greatly in their sensitivity to injury and injury symptoms often are not distinctive. Plastics have been shown to emit many different volatile compounds. The compound, di-butyl phthalate, contained in certain flexible plastics, has been shown to be very toxic to plants. Other injuries have been produced by caulking compounds and bonded screening. Paints have been shown to release xylene that is toxic to plants. Steam for humidification can cause problems because of hydroxylamines and other compounds added to steam used for heating to control fungal growth in return lines. Mercury, from broken thermometers is a particular problem in growth chambers because small quantities can collect in cracks and slowly volatilize to slow growth of plants. Plants themselves release large quantities of volatile hydrocarbons, with ethylene being the commonly recognized chemical that can be damaging when allowed to accumulate. People release large quantities of carbon dioxide which can cause variations in the rate of growth of plants. Contaminant problems can be controlled through filtering of the air or ventilation with make-up air, however the potential for problems is always present and careful testing should be undertaken with the particular species and cultivars being grown to insure that there are no toxic agents altering growth in each particular controlled environment being utilized.

Here is some info from Greenpeace.
Greenpeace:
A recent study concluded that a child's risk of bronchial obstruction was related to the presence of PVC flooring in their home or nursery. The researchers concluded that phthalate plasticisers in the flooring could be responsible. PVC floors release the phthalates DEHP and BBP when washed. Such releases, depends among other things, on the frequency of washing (estimated at 1-5 tonnes per year in Denmark, for example). Smaller quantities may be emitted into air and consequently cause obnoxious smells . The technical life of vinyl floors and wall coverings is at least 15 years, but their full life is not always used. Softeners, primarily the phthalate DEHP, can make up approximately 20 - 25 percent of vinyl floors, and between 10 - 30 percent of wall coverings.
PVC is thermally unstable and cannot be used in products without stabilisers, which can include lead. Dust containing lead can been released as they degrade in sunlight. Lead can affect the nervous system and the reproductive system in low doses. Lead in PVC miniblinds was found to pose a significant risk to young children in Canada. Approximately nine percent of the childhood lead poisoning cases in North Carolina are attributed to this PVC product.
Alternatives: Natural materials such as wood, bamboo and metal are all suitable alternatives to PVC.

Greenhouses and coldframes - Corrugated PVC sheeting is often used as a cheaper alternative to glass for greenhouses and coldframes.

The phthalate DBP is a component in PVC glazing strips in glasshouses. Some work completed by the Institute of Horticultural research in Wellesbourne, UK, has shown that as little as 200 picogrammes DBP per litre of air can kill plants.

They argue that a variety of glasshouse plants have been damaged on a worldwide basis since the 1930s. Greenhouse glass and safety glass, when needed, is the best alternative, although this is more expensive.
 

varriform

Member
GREENPEACE:
It is found in a wide range of consumer products such as packaging, cling film, bottles, credit cards, audio records and imitation leather as well as construction materials such as window frames, cables, pipes, flooring, wallpaper and window blinds. It is also used by manufacturers for car interiors and in hospitals as medical disposables.

However, the production of PVC creates and releases one of the most toxic chemicals - dioxin.

PVC products can leak harmful additives during use and disposal, when they are burned or buried. Burning creates and releases more dioxins and compounds containing chlorine, which further contaminates the environment.

PVC is difficult to recycle, resulting in much of it ending up in landfills. Chemicals, such as phthalates are added to PVC to make it soft and flexible.

Laboratory studies in animals show that some of these chemicals are linked to cancer and kidney damage and may interfere with the reproductive system and its development.

Recent testing by several governments has also shown that children can ingest hazardous chemicals from PVC toys during use.

Governments and industry are taking action to eliminate PVC. Danish and Swedish governments are restricting PVC use, hundreds of communities worldwide are eliminating PVC in buildings and many companies such as Nike, IKEA and The Body Shop have committed to eliminating PVC from their products.

Greenpeace is campaigning to phase out PVC in favour of more environmentally friendly alternatives.

OneBodyMind:
As bad as outdoor air can be in LA, indoor air is often worse, particularly in large buildings with poorly designed or artificial ventilation systems. The reason is PVC and formaldehyde off-gassing. Polyvinyl chloride is one of the most toxic chemicals known to man. It's a plastic mixed with other chemicals to produce the accoutrements of modern living, including everything from plumbing pipes and car interiors to synthetic fiber carpets and luggage to shower curtains and even yoga mats. The gas you inhale from PVC-based products is phthalates which can damage lungs and immune system. In addition to PVC, formaldehyde is used in many glues for building construction, and can off-gas from cabinets and panels and such. Like the water situation in southern California , the air issue requires a high level of consciousness about the choices you do have. Those choices can make a profound effect on your health. You need to be proactive to secure clean air zones in your home and at work, considering ventilation, air filters , and indoor plants to keep fresh clean oxygen available. Air out your home regularly by opening up windows for cross-ventilation, particularly during the early morning hours before traffic starts up. Buy a quality air filter. Some of them are quite expensive, but in LA they are a necessity. Calculate filters into the cost; you may find the more expensive ones that have cle ana ble filters may be more cost effective over the long run because you don't have to buy replacement filters that quickly clog. Indoor plants and plant walls along outdoor windows and doorways guarantee fresh oxygen, and are inexpensive and calming to tend to.
 

Daemon

Member
I agree with some of what's been posted here, though I have been using a pvc lined grow tent for a while now with no problems at all.....
 

lc00p4

STORM-TROOPA
Veteran
what about people who use pvc for hydro? that would directly affect the plant. fuck hydrohuts! that shit screwed me over so bad... my only use for pvc is grinding rails on my snowboard.

 
I try too avoid pvc at all costs.

Please give me an alternative to the 3/4" pvc used for irrigation??

does this gas off?
 

Harry Gypsna

Dirty hippy Bastard
Veteran
most irrigation stuff isnt pvc anyway the majority of it is made from polyethylene.... apart from rubber hose of course...
the whole pvc in tents issue has been discussed in great detail here...theres a couple of threads about the tents with info in them.
Just so you know though, not all the tents use PVC,, its just these shit ones coming in from china......homebox uses polyethylene which is safe, budbox use PE too I believe.... so its not a tent issue...more a scummy companies squeezing extra profit in through use of cheaper materials issue...
 

Odie-O

Member
screw hydro hut and that crap they make.been fighting with there crap for month's now.
i wanna get a homebox.any input on that tent? i'm just so tired of not having a crop flowering and wasting money on garbage hydro hut tents
 
Harry Gypsna said:
most irrigation stuff isnt pvc anyway the majority of it is made from polyethylene.... apart from rubber hose of course...
the whole pvc in tents issue has been discussed in great detail here...theres a couple of threads about the tents with info in them.
Just so you know though, not all the tents use PVC,, its just these shit ones coming in from china......homebox uses polyethylene which is safe, budbox use PE too I believe.... so its not a tent issue...more a scummy companies squeezing extra profit in through use of cheaper materials issue...

Thank you for your response
 

varriform

Member
Letter from HydroHut

Letter from HydroHut

Didn't see this posted on these forums.

Open Letter from HydroHut to the public

In the last several months, HydroHut has been made aware of and pursued a problem with some of its Huts causing a peculiar plant yellowing leading to plant whitening in certain, sensitive plants. While the issue did not arise in all plants, or all Huts, the existence of a problem was not conducive to our product's mission.

After several months of extensive testing, false positives and much interaction with the public regarding this matter, we have found an EPA approved compound that isn't stable in our plastic and that causes extreme stress to certain sensitive plants. In the future, this compound will be removed during manufacture.

Our focus has been directed at how to remove this compound from the plastic and to do so in a way that we could retroactively repair any HydroHut already in the field. As of February 2008, HydroHut will be repairing any affected HydroHuts at its facility. The exact process by which we repair the HydroHuts is extensive and proprietary and it will be carried out by a trained staff at our locations.

We fully understand that this situation with our product has adversely affected many clients. For this reason, we are standing behind our product and are offering anyone who has been affected a way to have his/her HydroHut repaired free of charge.

Any client, be they end user or store, can arrange to have his HydroHut shipped back to our Los Angeles facility for processing, free of charge. The HydroHut will then be shipped back to the client free of charge.

All inquiries for HydroHut processing should be directed to [email protected] with no exceptions.

Please provide the following details in the email:

1) Size/model of affected HydroHut

2) Number of affected HydroHuts (only the HydroHut brand will be accepted for processing)

3) Address where the HydroHut can be picked up by UPS call tag (make sure someone is there to meet the UPS driver) Do not use a PO box as UPS will not pick up from a PO box

4) A name to whom/which we can address the package going back to you, the client. (We will make a good faith attempt at getting your product back to you. If nobody is at the address to accept the package three times, the package will be sent back to Los Angeles. Any further attempts to get the package to the client will be paid for by client.)

5) Please remove your HydroHut canvas or skin and box it up. Do not pack up your poles or hardware. Do not remove your frame. Do not attempt to ship us your frame or other items. We will only be call tagging the canvas in a box. You must provide that box and properly seal that box. We will send you a call tag for a specific weight based on the email you send to us with your HydroHut details. Again, we will only be taking back your canvas for processing; no other parts or hardware will be accepted. Leave your frame set up and intact.

6) We will make every effort to process and reship your HydroHut canvas within two weeks. This is not a guarantee but it is our goal. Please note that ground shipments across the USA can take up to 8 days! Even if we process your HydroHut in only one day, there could still be 16 days of ground shipping, 8 days coming to us and 8 days going back. Be patient. Most clients will not have to wait two weeks. Every attempt will be made to expedite each HydroHut.

7) If a store has new HydroHut, still in its original box, the canvas can be re-boxed in a separate box, and the canvas will be returned to the store new and folded, ready to put back into the original box. Please keep your original box at your store including all poles, hardware, and instructions. Do not send us the entire unit.

While this entire exercise may be time consuming, HydroHut is doing all that it can to rectify this problem as quickly as possible. We apologize to everyone for the difficulties incurred with our product, end-users and stores. Without a loyal standing of clients we would be nothing. It is our goal make this situation as right as we can. Thank you to everyone who has stuck with us through this difficult period.
 

dirtybudz

Member
Indeed polyvinyl chlorides are nasty. This is especially the case with standard or cheaper thinner PVC plastics. They will off gas(new car smell/shower curtains etc.) and or leach vinyl chlorides and organotins( a metallic compound used as stabilizers), especially in acidic environments.

It raises a quite ethical discussion when dealing with cultivation as it pertains to "organics". When plants are grown in soils they must be certified free from synthetic chemical and chemical application for at least 3 years. So it would seem to translate that running an acidic nutrient solution through PVC fence posts or tubing such as in aeroponic , E&F set ups, use of PVC containers including bags, etc would thwart any attempt at truly meeting the definition growing "organic".

This is not to mention the environmental impacts involved with the production of such products. The use of vinyl chlorides in production(despite using enormous amounts of fossil fuels during the process) releases dioxins and ethylene dichloride. PVC is absolutely not recyclable and if it is incinerated(or burned during a house fire for example) will produce hundreds of toxins including hydrogen chloride gas.

However in this plastic world in which we live, your real concern should come from "softer" pvc products with added plasticizers as the phthalate risk is increased. Your rigid PVC pipe is less of a problem and at present has not been demonstrated to leach toxins above "acceptable" levels.


If your worried about cancer, don't use any PVC containing products(see how far you get).

If you want to prevent chloride interaction with your plants cellular growth, don't grow in PVC tents. Also, stop buying everything from China, it is destroying the world economy.

And in short if you want to grow 100% organic do it the ground, or if the need arises to use plastics, substitute HDPE containers or use ABS pipe(though neither are not E friendly in manufacture) as they do not tend to leach known toxic substances. You can avoid the cheap pvc tents by purchasing white polyethylene sheeting material as a substitute and using PE tubing for feed lines.

If you are already using PVC, keep using it as long as possible to minimize pollution.

Oh, the amount of dioxin released from smokin a doob with bleached rolling papers is equivalent on a ppm basis to the levels found in the flues of waste incinerators so PVC is probably not going to be what kills you. :bashhead:

 

gregor_mendel

Active member
Started with a HydroHut, then exchanged for a Hydrofarm Habitat, now exchanging for a Secret Jardin Darkroom. Hopefully it won't kill my plants.
 

seebobski

Member
hi all!! I am in a build and pond liners are pvc and used on the floor. is this ok? any problems with offgassing?should it be covered with panda film?panda film is polyethelyn right?
 

OgreSeeker

Active member
seebobski said:
hi all!! I am in a build and pond liners are pvc and used on the floor. is this ok? any problems with offgassing?should it be covered with panda film?panda film is polyethelyn right?


There have been tons of people that use pond liners for their floor and to construct e&f tables and I've never heard of any issues.
 

DIGITALHIPPY

Active member
Veteran
from what ive herd its the excess chem's used to process the liners that are causing grief. not to mention the high rate of contamination in chinese products.
the pvc liners were not designed with thoes contaminates in mind...
so the chinese contamination is causing the death, not the pvc liner. i wouldnt be suprised if these things were cladded with lead....
 

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