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Team Microbe's Living Soil Laboratory

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Team Microbe

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Amazing thread!

Ive worked in the hydroindustry and its funny when you get to talk to the nutrient producers and they them selves say its basicly all about the money.. I remember selling nutrients for 100$ but you could get the same stuff for 50$ under another name.

This type of organic growing is deffinetly something i will try out in the future when i got more space to grow on. Will follow this thread and hopefully learn a thing or two from someone who obviously know how to grow.

Great work keep it up!

Thanks man!

Haha yeah, it's a very profitable industry that's for sure. Money is a son of a bitch, it'll make people defy their own morals on the flip of a dime sometimes. My favorite part is the "inert ingredients". Last time I checked, tap water was free and it comes out of everyone's faucets lol


Team,
I was thinking of 4 per stall of either 7 or 10 gal. My main concern is height. Don't wanna run out of headroom [6.5' minus reflector, pots]. Would likely go for the shortest veg time I can while topping them to keep them as short as possible [within reason], and as soon as I get about 9 tips per plant, put them into bloom. Yes I could do a giant plant, 1 per stall, but I want to grow more strains.

BTW, I have RO and a Small Boy with an upgraded carbon filter that removes Chloramines. Chlorine N.P. Experienced tea brewer with a good 15 gal brewer.

What I meant about the cytokinins was, you say you're watering with them. What's your source? Coconut water?

I'm intersted in why there seems to be so much N in your Bloom tea. Is this just for early bloom? How often do they get it in bloom?

Making this move would be a huge step and effort for me in my set up, in suburbia with neighbors close by. All my mixing would have to be done indoors, then hauled out to my room, up 3 steps. Bad back, knees. Dead of night type thing. So I would only do it if it's going to be a 1 time, long term, no till thing where I could topdress, amend, leave in place for years. I would use barley cover crop/straw like you. I have a worm bin, and a 35 year old compost heap that makes killer tea. Thanks for all the info. You're flat getting results.

And just to be sure, with this soil/method, you're getting clean, white/gray-white ash, tasty bud, right? No flushing?

I've been interested in Clackamas Coot's method and that of others for quite awhile. Read and considered many soil recipes. Have read about others who mixed soil and the plants grew well, healthy, good production of harsh, bad tasting bud with black nasty ash. This has made me reluctant. This looks like the Holy Grail to me. I think this Spring or Summer I'll make the move, and live happily everafter, I hope. One big labor push, then easy street.

I intend to use OGBioWar because I've battled Root Aphids for 3 years. Cost me deep in the purse with trying different remedies [all organic], crop loss, tons of labor, lost genetics, suffering downtrodden heartache. Finally getting them dicked, and having good crops in coco/perlite with Earth Juice and ACT's. OGBioWar has been a lifesaver, and my guess is that I'm rid of RA's, but I'll never stop using preventive measures. OGBW and Nematodes. Thanks. -granger

Edit: I also have AgSil16 on hand, mixed with water to make the equivalent of ProTek Silica.

Why 9 tops exactly? I would top once and flip to flower if I were you, you may run into space issues if you let them veg for too long. My plants that were left untrained ended up being wider and more filled out than I thought, about 2'x2' a piece so use your judgement while in veg my man.



Cytokinins are from coconut powder sourced from www.buildasoil.com check out their blog section too, has a great post about cytokinins and their importance in not only lowers bushing out but plant senescence (fading in flower) as well. I actually just ordered more earlier tonight because I forgot to keep my powder in a jar, I just left it in the bag and it hardened up because it was getting too much air or something. Next batch is going in the mason jar to prevent that from happening again.

The N is mainly food for the microbes to consume in order to multiply. That amount is the precise amount needed to carry a bloom brew to that 20 hr mark without exhausting the amount of food. Microbe Man has been dialing in these ratios for some time now, and he's the one with the microscope so I listen to what he has to say. He has a site www.microbeorganics.com that has a LOT of valuable info... those recipes are just the tip of the ice burg. I'll feed bloom tea at week 2 and 4 of flower. I'll feed sativas at week 6 if they look like they're gonna go more than 10 weeks.

I'm in the same situation as you, so I can understand your worries concerning neighbors. I started to garden heavily outside my house as a cover, so hauling soil and what not just looks normal around here. I think 2 or 3 or my neighbors are avid gardeners as well, compost piles on the driveway and all lol. No-till would be ideal, I wish I mixed this soil for no-till but I didn't. Soon though. They key is big pots (20 gal and up) and knowledge, knowledge, knowledge. When going permanent like that make sure you have no doubts in your mind on your mix, methods, and plan.

Go to http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/1299862-no-till-gardening.html for a kick ass no-till grow with a bunch of valuable info. Coots is on that forum and chimes in a lot in that thread, I use it as a go-to and mimic Mountain Organics' watering regimen to a tee. Very smart guy, very humble and all in all a guru of no-tilling. He's working on pots that are in their 13th cycle! No degrade in quality, it just keeps getting better. That thread alone has converted so many growers over to no-till because his results are simply amazing.

This method produces the tastiest and cleanest smoke you can get, you just need to make sure your microbes are comfortable and keep that media moist to keep the life thriving. I had a run with black ash and very bad tasting bud a while back... but I figured out why and it was due to not straining my tea before applying it to my soil. All the excess N in the amendments poured on top started to burn the plants and they never went through senescence like they should have. N resided in the smoke and it was bad news. Same thing when you don't manually flush synthetics, NPK resides in the smoke and it's not healthy for consumption. My last run and this one have been smooth though, and smooth smoke as well. Flushing with a synthetic program is mimicking plant senescence pretty much, so when the plant carries out that process naturally in soil there is no need to flush. Flushing in soil is actually detrimental to roots because they drown in all that water, as do your microbes for the most part.

I actually found an email from a while back talking to Jeremy of BAS about my fading problem:

In a no-till living soil that is full of life the plant can operate off of very little nutrient input, this is getting the plant to be strong and grow according to the soil.... where on the other hand, when using super soil full of fast release nutrients like Blood meal etc..... The plant doens't have as much of a choice, the nutrients are there and the plant is lazier and doesn't isn't required to work as hard to feed itself. As flowering wraps up and there is still Nitrogen in the soil.... the plant will still go through senescence and stop feeding on nitrogen, that being said, if the soil is still full of fast release nutrients it won't be able to do that... That is why many feel that a living soil recipe is a better way to go, using whole plant inputs like kelp and neem instead of single ingredient, fast release nutes.


And dude, Coots is the guru of gurus. I follow the trail of experienced growers in the community and they all lead back to that guy it seems like. He knows the answer to every question, just like Microbe Man. Those two are the fathers of soil IMO and I listen to everything they have to say.

Congrats on getting rid of the aphids btw, those are a pain in the ass I've heard. I think I've had everything but aphids thus far, so most likely that boat will come along soon knowing my luck :laughing:
 

Team Microbe

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Amazing thread! N great work!
I really like to see the companion planting/living mulch of barley!
So very natural and alive.

I was woundering about the neem and karanja cakes.
Do they add insect resistance? It would b lovely to have partially pest proofed plants!

Thanks for those kind words Heusinomics :tiphat:

Neem and Karanja are amazing for pest management.

I mix a Neem and Karanja mix (50:50) into my soil mix in the beginning of the soil build, along with crab meal....

"Neem creates over 360 compounds of which around 30 function as a pesticide and/or fungicide. So with this one material I have two problems covered. Another compound that we want to see in our soil is an enzyme called Chitinase (Pronounced Kite-In-A's) Many organisms create this enzyme including bacteria. The reason that we add crab meal is for the Chitin (Kite-In) As bacteria degrade this polysaccharide this enzyme is created and it's this enzyme that gives us the pesticide benefit - not the Chitin directly."
 

Team Microbe

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Week 3 of Flowering underway

Week 3 of Flowering underway

Couldn't resist taking some shots of the girls in week 3 tonight, thought I'd share a few...

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Silver Lotus beginning to stack up a little bit now. My favorite plant in the garden right now


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I was due for some new bulbs this run so I went with Hortilux Full Spectrums for both of the 600's, very pleased with these to say the least. Noticeably brighter than the Apollo 600 watt bulbs that were here before them.


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Another Silver Lotus (sativa pheno) at week 2 last week


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...and now at week 3


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Sicilian Revenge by TG Genetics. Really interesting terp profile on this one. Smells kinda like a pungent grapefruit with berry undertones... rly can't wait for her to finish




So far everything is going smoothly over here folks. By far my best looking run in organic soil, I'll tell you that. I really started concentrating on feeding the soil this time, and keeping the top layer moist to keep the life from dying off in that top layer. I read something like over 80% of microorganisms reside in the top 4'' of the soil, and since we rely on them to break down and cycle the nutrients to the plant, the entire soil food web depends on keeping them alive and well. The 10 gallon pots are doing well and sustaining root mass enough to the point where I'm not seeing any root bound issues, but I could have definitely gone bigger. I'm thinking about going with 25 gallon pots next run after mixing up a long term no-till mix. That would be ideal IMO.


The only things that could be improved upon this run are the THRIPS I accidentally brought in from outside this outdoor season. I hardened off clones too early and it rained so I made the mistake of bringing em inside for a night... BIG mistake. Never again will I "bring outside in".
They aren't too out of control though, the soil mites are controlling their population for the most part but it is slowly growing... so I went ahead and ordered some nematodes last night from http://www.arbico-organics.com/prod...es-triple-threat-combo/pest-solver-guide-ants to help combat the thrip larvae and break their cycle down a little quicker than the beneficial mites (hypoasis miles) can. Has anyone gone this route before?? I'd be interested in hearing some feedback on nematode applications.
 

Granger2

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For todes, use overwhelming numbers. Make sure they don't sit on your porch after delivery. Don't want them to freeze, or bake during hot months. Watch for delivery and put them in the fridge right away. Apply ASAP. I've stopped buying them locally because they are shipped in under who knows what conditions, then sit in merchant's fridge for who knows how long. The guy at Buglogical says they are viable if kept in the fridge for no more than 10 days, but their numbers start declining right away.I buy from Nature's Control and Buglogical.

I have 3-3x3 stalls, and 1-2x4 stall and I use 10 million. My hope is that they eventually starve to death. Stopped using Arbico for Summer deliveries. I don't like their packaging. Not up to the task. I'm not confident they are viable. Good luck. -granger
 

Kozmo

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I was listening to the Adam Dunn show the other day and a guy on there was talking about the importance of changing your bulb reflectors once a year. Said the plant gets 60% of its light from the reflector. Just wanted to throw that out there. Deflector degradation.
 

Team Microbe

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For todes, use overwhelming numbers. Make sure they don't sit on your porch after delivery. Don't want them to freeze, or bake during hot months. Watch for delivery and put them in the fridge right away. Apply ASAP. I've stopped buying them locally because they are shipped in under who knows what conditions, then sit in merchant's fridge for who knows how long. The guy at Buglogical says they are viable if kept in the fridge for no more than 10 days, but their numbers start declining right away.I buy from Nature's Control and Buglogical.

I have 3-3x3 stalls, and 1-2x4 stall and I use 10 million. My hope is that they eventually starve to death. Stopped using Arbico for Summer deliveries. I don't like their packaging. Not up to the task. I'm not confident they are viable. Good luck. -granger

No doubt man, I wasn't aware of that thank you! I'll make sure I'm ready for em... and I'll keep those other sources in mind for the future if I don't care for this shipment


I was listening to the Adam Dunn show the other day and a guy on there was talking about the importance of changing your bulb reflectors once a year. Said the plant gets 60% of its light from the reflector. Just wanted to throw that out there. Deflector degradation.

Damn, just another reason to get a Gavita huh? :laughing:
 

Team Microbe

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Half way there!

Half way there!

Hey folks, these girls just hit day 30 of flowering and they just started pumping out some resin after a fungal dom flowering tea this week:


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Sicilian Revenge


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another Sicilian Revenge, dif pheno


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Silver Lotus (sativa dom pheno) starting to fill out a little bit more, this one won't yield but it's looking to be some of the dankest looking smoke in the tent right now


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Another Silver Lotus, this pheno looks to be stockier than the sativa dom pheno above. Really starting to stack this week, can't wait to see what she finishes like. This is one of my favorites in the tent (I've probably said that like 2 times already lol)



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Silver Lotus (sativa dom pheno) gushing resin
 

Team Microbe

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I've spoken of coconut water before, and have just began using this religiously in my flowering regimen now that it's day 30 of flowering. I don't feed with tea from here on out, unless it's a simple EWC slurry but I probably won't even bother since they just got one yesterday. I like to inoculate every 30 days with compost tea drenches, anymore than that may be unnecessary. Anyways, in case you didn't read the whole thread yet, there are a lot of benefits in using coconut water, and especially in the 2nd half of flowering because it's been known to:

-Stimulates cell division.
-Stimulates morphogenesis (shoot initiation/bud formation) in tissue culture.
-Stimulates the growth of lateral buds-release of apical dominance.
-Stimulates leaf expansion resulting from cell enlargement.
-May enhance stomatal opening in some species.
-Promotes the conversion of etioplasts into chloroplasts via stimulation of chlorophyll synthesis. *

* I think the use of coconut water this run will help my plants reach senescence easier than my previous runs (I've had problems in the past with late-flower fading)




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I like to plant cover crops with all of my plants because they do so much better than the plants I simply lay compost and straw down as mulch. Now I do all 3, and about a week after transplanting I'll notice a spike in health (I'm guessing this is when the clone's mycorrhizae binds with the cover crop's mycorrhizae). After reading One Straw Revolution, it doesn't make sense not to mimic natural systems as much as humanly possible. I've found my best results while biomimicking too, the proof really is in the pudding.




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Couldn't resist a classic meme to cap off the evening with :laughing:
 

DCG Farmas

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Can we be friends??? Lol, I like every single thing you're doing here. I'll be hanging out on this thread for a while. Great Job Microbe
 

Team Microbe

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Subbed!

Can we be friends??? Lol, I like every single thing you're doing here. I'll be hanging out on this thread for a while. Great Job Microbe

haha of course bro :dance013:

Looks great in here!

Looking spectacular!

those are some healthy plants my friend.

goodness you've done well.

regards to you and your mentors.

Thanks fam! Without my mentors I would NOT be growing this way, that's for sure. Would probably still be building ebb and flow tables and running hydro for all I know... I have so much gratitude for the big guns out there passing down knowledge to guys like me. Anyone can do this, that's the thing. It's so simple of a process once you understand how the system as a whole works, all it takes is stepping back and getting a view of the big picture... then you're there.
 

Siskiyou

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Yes, the worms!
Also very interested in the potential of Effective Microorganisms. I'm just about to start a bokashi bucket. The worms will love that. Then the plants. Then me, hopefully.
Nice Thread.
 

Team Microbe

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great plants and methods! I want to take a seat in here, too!
good luck! :tiphat:

Thanks! Welcome to the thread :tiphat:

Yes, the worms!
Also very interested in the potential of Effective Microorganisms. I'm just about to start a bokashi bucket. The worms will love that. Then the plants. Then me, hopefully.
Nice Thread.

Worms love bokashi compost! I know some vermicomposters who ferment all of their scraps before adding it to their bins, it makes it immediately available for the worms to ingest they say

:respect: TM. Enjoyed your last thread, definitely subbing in for this one :tiphat:

Welcome back! And thank you sir :tiphat:

hmm those plants look soooo healthy

Thanks Nifty!
 
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