Tea Article

[redclover]

Baaaam. Lacto. I have a series of pics I made during a make of. Didn't end well. I'll just say from me, which may not mean much, that ain't no substitute. You can clean your drains with it, not sure it will perk your plants to the extent of compost.

A substitute for CT is not lacto I say... Nothing is a substitute for homemade life building material. Lacto seems like a cleansing material, and then a enzyme-like building block. Compost is the life force. There is nothing like that.

However to use like a CT or enzyme seed tea in order to "bulk" is a good idea and something I plan on doing shortly.. I'd like to post pics. Maybe you redclover?

Gil Carandang is da bomb, I really enjoy his methods and the egg shell Cal/Phos has done no harm, but rather a bit of the ol' one up on some recent gardens I have seen.

Lacto does do a great job unclogging and deoderizing I like to crush roasted egg shells, with a morter n pestle, and add it to the bins. Grit and Ca all in one! Usually, I'll do a CT when cooking a mix, and one after transplanting. Do you guys notice a diff with more applications?! I use SSTs much more...

What would you like a pic of?

 

[Team.Lift]

O, i was referring to the building lacto process.

 

[Team.Lift]

SST's I love in conjunction with coconut water, especially when I pull it from a fresh young.

This is not sustainable in my book however and I myself should stop relying on the coconut to do the job (even with the seeds/beans).

I have been SSTing whenever i can remember, I used to calender everything, but when I got on the daily watering kick, it kinda dropped, I now only mark down when I plant and transplant, and AACT. I seriously notice the difference after a SST tho. Here's a question: When is the best time to apply a SST, before the AACT, or after. If it is an enzyme boost, then when is the best time to apply? After the microbes have had dinner and are doing their work, or before?

The old guy every refers to used to weeklyize it with the SST. Or so it was written.

I asked if you wanted to post the lacto process cuz you brought it up. Otherwise I would put mine up, as I plan on redoing the process myself. I'm sure a thread of such would be welcome.

 

[Team.Lift]

There is one already about lacto by a one Jaykush. O well, didn't see it. What else is for dinner?

 

[redclover]

SST's I love in conjunction with coconut water, especially when I pull it from a fresh young.

This is not sustainable in my book however and I myself should stop relying on the coconut to do the job (even with the seeds/beans).

I have been SSTing whenever i can remember, I used to calender everything, but when I got on the daily watering kick, it kinda dropped, I now only mark down when I plant and transplant, and AACT. I seriously notice the difference after a SST tho. Here's a question: When is the best time to apply a SST, before the AACT, or after. If it is an enzyme boost, then when is the best time to apply? After the microbes have had dinner and are doing their work, or before?

The old guy every refers to used to weeklyize it with the SST. Or so it was written.

I asked if you wanted to post the lacto process cuz you brought it up. Otherwise I would put mine up, as I plan on redoing the process myself. I'm sure a thread of such would be welcome.

I just do a rice wash and eat the yogurt cake. I follow the IMO vid on who tube.

That's a good question about the SST timing. I assumed afterwards would be best as that's when your microbe count would me highest right? Interesting point about them being 'full'. Wonder about a CT drench shortly followed with an enzyme tea...

 

[anferneybra]

I have been alternating weeks of ACT.

Basically Week 1 veg starts with a tea, then bam alternate weeks with fresh and teas all the way to week 8. It def. takes effort to always have a brew going, I have about 135 plants in 10 gal pots. I make 40 gallon batches in 55 gallon trash cans with a oregon style manifold.

Basically make one every day, I use about 40-60 gallons a day. Hit everything all week charting each plants watering makes this simple. Once I have hit every plant, I stop using teas. Takes about a week since some plants require watering every other day and some just once a week.

I tried brewing "veg" and "bloom" teas, in which I saw ill effects to the life of my teas, so now I just top dress whatever dry ingredients I am trying to incorporate that week and water in with teas or fresh depending what week it is.

I got a cheapy AM scope for like 300 bucks. They work well enough to see the life and quantify whats going on in there.

I started spraying ACT at a 1:1 ratio this round, plant virility seemed to increase very much along with stress resistance during transplants. I run free suspension, so I simply filter the tea first through two, 400 micron bags from simplicitea.com then add to my sprayer and water down 1:1 with RO water. They totally love this stuff.

Just like was recommended to me I use this sprayer:

http://www.whitecap.com/shop/wc/53113

The tip and wand make it SO easy to spray!!!

T

 

[Microbeman]

anfern;
Do you know what life you are seeing in your tea? e.g. flagellates vs ciliates?

A 400 micron mesh bag may be a wee bit fine for filtering large batches of tea. The reason being that if you do not keep the mesh cleaned off periodically organic matter builds up blocking passage of microbes, especially fungal hyphae. We use 800 to 1000 micron mesh for this (window screen size) and still clear debris. 400 micron is ideal for extraction.

When diluting/mixing with water it is best if the tea and water are near the same temperature.

Just giving tips to help optomize. It sounds like you have a good routine going.

 

[Team.Lift]

anferneybra, It does sound like you have a good routine. What is an oregon style manifold?

MM, "a 400 micron mesh bag may be a bit fine...", "400 micron is ideal for extraction", is this a typo, or are you saying if kept properly clean the 400 micron mesh bag is ideal?

 

[Team.Lift]

"I started spraying ACT at a 1:1 ratio this round, plant virility seemed to increase", @anfern, you mean compost tea foliar? You are seeing benefit?

I ask because i don't understand how the plant utilizes the tea through its tissue. I understand that humans can bathe and eat fulvic and humic substances with supposed positive effect on health. I guess in that way the plant may be able to use the tea in a foliar application.

Is there such thing as a true "biofilm" in foliar application of compost tea on plants?

 

[anferneybra]

MM - I usually see a great diversity. Lots of flagellates and some ciliates, also amoebae. Even more tiny tiny ones, that I have to go to 100X to see details on. I normally scan on 10X and quantify at 40X. Eye piece is 10X, so 400 power is what I look around on.

Also see plenty of fungal hypha/hyphae. 24 hours produces tons of flagellates, where at 48 hours I scope the fungal hyphae seem to take over the teas and are everywhere.

I saw you recommended 400 microns so it is what I have been using, when I use them I definitely empty the screen out every cup back into the brewer of the EWC built up. I will try a larger screen, but with the free suspension tea I really want to take the grit out of the spray as it settles on leaves when sprayed.

I def try to match the temperature of RO water to the tea, so I don't shock the life in it. Thanks for the tips man!

Team.Lift - Yes I mean foliar my ACT. The purpose of spraying my tea is to help disease and stress resistance through bacterial/fungal herding to the leaf surfaces. The beneficial bacteria/fungi dominate the real estate on the surface and make it hard for any foreign body to come in and take over. Prevention is my middle name after dealing with every problem in the book over the years. I do not put fulvic/humic acids in my tea. I think there maybe some small micro nutrients in the tea from whatever the worms were feeding on before they pooped!

Tea is the boss, about to bring down a 16 k watt room with 100% amended soil watered only with tea/fresh. Looks like it will push 1gram/watt or damn close. No disease or pests, no real problems except a couple plants that are a couple feet to tall for 10 gallon pots, probably because of the tea!

T

 

[Sir D]

Hey MM what's the biggest water pump that you have used for feeding teas? I know you said sump pumps are ok but what about any other ones like this perhaps
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Flotec-1-5-HP-High-Capacity-Thermoplastic-Sprinkler-Pump-FP5172/100206189
Or will this just go all ninja turtles and shredder the whole thing? Last year I ran into a problem with foliar feeding when the plants got too big for my britches and I needed to foliar with a hose with a foliar nozzle that I am a bit concerned about as well possibly shredding too much. I'll look that part up and post it later.
Anyone else have any ideas on serious foliar feeding equipment? I also was looking up some of those ones they use for orchards.

http://www.fimcoindustries.com/trailer_sprayer_60gallon.html

I'm thinking a fat sump pump with a garden hose and proper nozzle might outdo those ones but the mobility is obviously better with those. I would prefer to be able to drop it right in the res without having to screen it but don't think that's gonna be possible, Anyways what u think guys?

 

[Team.Lift]

Hey anfern, I don't mess with any fulvics/humics any more either, I used to Bioag it, and now I just see them as another bottled so and so. I was making that correlation because I believe there is all of that already floating in our compost. So, you getting it ether way!

Good job dude, thats a huge load! Only in my dreams... Very happy to see no extra bs used tho, tea is top dog and clearly with your work shows that. Data alotta nugget!

Hey what are you topdressing with? I love topdressing now and just act'ing.

 

[anferneybra]

Team..Lift - Bioag is great stuff, I will be running foliar tests with fulpower this round on a couple plants compared to the ACT. Their VAM endo mix mycos, 100% best around.

I top dress with roots organics dry products. I amend my soil heavily but sometimes you have to go further, especially since my room is very demanding for organics. 16-20 gavita lights, 900 ppm CO2, lots of wall/ground fans, 75 degrees F all day. The plants just crank, sometimes even need watered every day...haha. I use elemental, uprising foundation and bloom. Last week a nice seabird 0-12-0 guano for that pop. The tea carries all that into the root zone very well.

Hey Sir D - just my 2 cents, hopefully MM has a commercial version. I worked on a large fruit tree farm years back and they religiously used only diaphragm pumps to apply ACT.

http://flsprayers.com/products-page/diaphragm-pumps/zeta-85/

Something along those lines. They had the idea that suction wouldn't mess with bacteria/fungi as opposed to mag drive or crank shaft pumps.

Hope this helps

T

 

[redclover]

Fern, very interesting stuff. You say the hyphae dominate the bacteria when brewed longer?! Do you think CT foliar is a better option than kelp, neem, Silica, etc. or do you alternate? Good stuff guys. Very helpful.

 

[Team.Lift]

I fuggin foliared every week multiple times a week for a long while. I can say for me it's strongest point was battling P.M. and washing away any little pesky gnats floating around. Other than that, it's validity for me was downsized by the superpower of good compost and molasses. Shit, when you see buds jump in size overnight, you sit up and take notice. I never foliar with it, as I thought compost was pointless up top. I do not know how fulvic acid contained in compost can penetrate the green plant tissues. That is not to say that foliar is not beneficial to cleanse and strengthen as anfernybra said.

I just got done abolishing some fungus gnats few weeks ago with neem drenches (my soil is pretty kicking so they didn't need much). I stopped foliaring with neem myself.

I think lavender oil, and chamomile with a little kelp go a long way for foliars. I just think my plants like it better not wetter (up top that is).

 

[Microbeman]

anferneybra, It does sound like you have a good routine. What is an oregon style manifold?

MM, "a 400 micron mesh bag may be a bit fine...", "400 micron is ideal for extraction", is this a typo, or are you saying if kept properly clean the 400 micron mesh bag is ideal?

extraction and filtering are completely different.

 

[Team.Lift]

MM, A ha , excuse me, I see now. Just not reading well.

Thanks for bearing with while I busted my initial 25-30 posts out. Hate not being able to edit and private chat.

 

[anferneybra]

Redclover - yes, MM has long said that the longer the brew the more fungi in it. The pH will dive on you a little tho, but don't fear, your well amended soil has buffer. This was my biggest thing coming out of synthetics, worry about pH. That being said I don't water things at 4.5 or 8. Things need to be balanced somewhat when being watered in. So always check, but don't slave over 6.5 on the dot, I would say a good range of watering into soil is 5.5 to 7.

I did a spray test at the start of veg with a basic tea EWC + MOL.
Another tea was basic tea EWC + MOL but with kelp meal .25% like MM said.

I sprayed both for a week, did not really see any better reaction in the plants with the kelp so I stopped brewing it in.

Like the aurora innovations saying goes "if you don't see improvement with ANY product you add, even ours, don't use it". I completely agree with their statement, run tests yourself if you are interested in something. It is a lot of fun!

I will be cooking another round of soil this week, can't wait!

Then my massive ROLS will start from last round, 130 - 10 gallon pots, recycled soil + amendments. almost 7 cubic yards!

T

 

[Sir D]

Hey Sir D - just my 2 cents, hopefully MM has a commercial version. I worked on a large fruit tree farm years back and they religiously used only diaphragm pumps to apply ACT.

http://flsprayers.com/products-page/diaphragm-pumps/zeta-85/

Something along those lines. They had the idea that suction wouldn't mess with bacteria/fungi as opposed to mag drive or crank shaft pumps.

Hope this helps

T

Those look awesome but all cost a pretty Pennie damn! I've heard that same thing but was hoping someone with a scope had checked it out for confirmation. Like i said MM said the sumps are ok but was hoping to hear if the others were no good through evidence. I use a small Diaphragm pump till they get so big and then I'm looking for something I can use for when they're bigger because the first night I found that out it took me over six hours to foliar. Thanks for the two cents. Anyone else....MM.......?

 

[Microbeman]

Redclover - yes, MM has long said that the longer the brew the more fungi in it.

I don't believe I did say this. I think I said that in my brews, the first things to grow are fungal hyphae and bacteria.

The first microbes to begin dividing and growing in ACT are bacteria/archaea and fungi (if present in the [vermi]compost). The fungi grows out rapidly as fungal hyphae and is often attached to pieces of organic matter free floating.

http://www.microbeorganics.com/#More_on_Compost_Tea_2013_

Fungal Brew;
If you want a brew which is more fungal increase the amount of fish hydrolysate to around 0.19% and you may wish to decrease the amount of molasses used so there is not a foodstock overload. Include a pinch of alfalfa meal, not using more than 0.25%. It is important to not overload a brew with foodstocks, otherwise you can easily compromise the dissolved oxygen capacity of the unit. Most importantly discontinue brewing around 18 to 20 hours. Of course if you have a microscope you can judge that for yourself.
Also, if you do not have fungi in your [vermi]compost, you won’t have it magically appear in your ACT.

Length of Brew;
This will provide a CT with a microbial content of, bacteria/archaea and fungal hyphae (if present in compost) when brewed for 18 to 24 hours. When using our fungal inhabited vermicompost, the optimum time seems to be 18 hours for a bacteria/archaea and fungal brew. If brewed for 30 to 36 hours (and up to 42 to 48 hours if you have a microscope) there will be flagellates and amoebae (& some ciliates) as well, providing a functioning microbial consortia which is better for nutrient cycling in the soil/root interface. Because of the variations in brewing compost tea, it is better to examine the microbial content with a microscope and decide at what period of the brew you should apply it but if you do not have a microscope then use the CT between the time periods mentioned above for the desired effects.
http://www.microbeorganics.com/#Compost_Tea_Recipes