Super expensive LED's vs cheaper LED's?

[member 505892]

I'm very new to the LED world.... i have seen cheap ones around for a long time now and seen poor reviews on the cheaper ones many years ago and the only ones worth buying seemed to be more than i was willing to spend....

Now i see some very good grows with these cheap(er) MarsHydro lights and i wonder why there are still some super expensive LED's including some from Mars....

So, what is the real difference? Unclefishtick's grows with these moderately priced LED's seem as good as any really, so what's the point in the expensive multi thousand dollar units?

Thanks.

 

[f-e]

When you spend time developing something, it owes you. The first ones you sell, you price high, because as something new they should be the best, and you need your money back. A year or two later, you are knocking out millions, have turned development costs into profit, and can sell cheaper. Your product at 2 years old, is probably no longer demanding the cost of the very best as something 0.1% better has arrived on the market. So you must price lower.

Lets look at a practical example. The LM301b was superseded by the LM301H. Same company, same series. Same part number almost. the B offered (from memory) 2.97umol/J and the H offers 3.03umol/J. With facts like these, how much more can the H be worth? Well.. everything? The B is outdated and rapidly becoming unwanted. Before the LM301 we had the LM561 with 2.8 umol/j and it's perhaps not even in production now. The 301H is 8% better so nobody is building with a 561 now. Though it's only 8% worse.

My light uses the top Samsung stuff. In white LED's that 301H is the business. However, Osram have a slightly better red than Samsung. Osram have the best and attach a 'the best' premium to it. If I spec my light with Osram reds, which are a small percentage of the leds present, my light increased in value a full 50%. Sorry... not value. It increased in price 50%. It's value obviously went down is it got 50% more expensive but not 50% better. Perhaps closer to 1% better.

You want the very best, you pay the top dollar. You want something close and there are real savings. Mass produced gls lamps are in a very competitive market but fall short of the higher standards we pursue. While something in a dollar shop keyring can do a great impression of a decent light when it's just a picture and i-bollox description.


Mars are not selling the i-bollox. Mostly they are using the 301. You may find some 561 in older designs, but the 301H is common. They will also put in a handful of other colours if you demand it, and the Osram reds for people that do want the very best LED's and drivers but are not so interested in international approvals or resistance to high pressure water jets. Which commercial installers must have for regulated operations. LED's are mounted low, in positions where they really will get watered. Type approvals are hugely expensive and slow down the process of getting things to market. Even though it's a collection of parts that carry individual approvals.


It's complicated. There will always be crap out there, that carries no information about the product than '10000w replacement' and there is honest kit out there that doesn't need to hide what it is made with. Which is the important part. Who assembled it comes second. What it can replace, you decide for yourself based on the parts used. 450w of 301 per meter seems a good benchmark. 300-600 has been seen to work. You can mix in other colours, but if it's not red, it's probably just weakening your output. IMO the UV some use is for dance clubs, not plants. It sounds good though and people keep asking for UV indiscriminately. So there it is.

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

Mars will put the osram reds in for an additional fee?
Sorry I got confused on that,I have only HLG's so far.
Thanks

 

[member 505892]

Ok, so basically it's just like the latest television vs a 2 year old television.

Someone like me wouldn't even notice a discernible difference, but the folks for who money makes no difference, they want the latest just 'because'.

Thanks.

 

[unclefishstick]

or to put it simply....mars is a good way to get your feet wet with leds,then there's still room to upgrade within the mars catalog that are still a good value for the money...

 

[Dr.King]

Greetings, Spiderfarmer brand is also a good brand to look at. For this reason next run I'm gonna be doing my own SP2000 tent vs a Mars Light tent grow to see how they compare. Happy growing.

 

[Loc Dog]

Nevermind.

 

[Mars Hydro Led]

I'm very new to the LED world.... i have seen cheap ones around for a long time now and seen poor reviews on the cheaper ones many years ago and the only ones worth buying seemed to be more than i was willing to spend....

Now i see some very good grows with these cheap(er) MarsHydro lights and i wonder why there are still some super expensive LED's including some from Mars....

So, what is the real difference? Unclefishtick's grows with these moderately priced LED's seem as good as any really, so what's the point in the expensive multi thousand dollar units?

Thanks.

TS series is mainly for budget indoor growers. The chip is Epistar, which is less efficient compared to samsung.

FC4800, FC6500, SP6500 these powerful light are mainly for commercial growers. They were made by samsung and osram chip.

We produce different series to meet different customers' needs.

 

[Mars Hydro Led]

Mars will put the osram reds in for an additional fee?
Sorry I got confused on that,I have only HLG's so far.
Thanks

It is true. the price of single osram chip is higher than epistar.

 

[Loc Dog]

TS series is mainly for budget indoor growers. The chip is Epistar, which is less efficient compared to samsung.

FC4800, FC6500, SP6500 these powerful light are mainly for commercial growers. They were made by samsung and osram chip.

We produce different series to meet different customers' needs.

What do you have for 4 X 8 tents?

 

[DiverDave]

I just stumbled onto this thread.

I have tried expensive LEDs and experimented with SIL just to add to tests.
First dial in your grow style & feeds.
Then when your ready find the best bar lights you can for your tent size.
Mine is 5x5 so I went for the FC 6500, specs are top-shelf.
The controller is very incremental and removable to go outside the tent.
So at this point, heat has been removed, a gain of 2 to 4 inches over LED blurple boxes I use to hang.
This thing can go to the poles, it has very little heat.
Lightweight, thin, and bright as day, They should package LED glasses with these lights.
They are dangerous without them.

I will be using these bar lights for a long time and can consider selling off all my other lights at almost give-away prices.
Before this, those were how you get the frosty in the cornflakes

IF you plan to go with a 5x5, get this, let them know your power needs and they hook you up.

Best buy 2020~2021 it's not even listed on most charts cause it's over the range of the competition. lol

DD

 

[CaptainDankness]

or to put it simply....mars is a good way to get your feet wet with leds,then there's still room to upgrade within the mars catalog that are still a good value for the money...

But is the top of the line Mars as good as top of the line Kind LED?

Definitely don't know much about LEDs just a friend had a room with 4 Kind LED lights, it was a few years ago but I believe he said they costed over $1,000 and they sucked!! I get way bigger buds with a 600 watt HPS let alone the 1,000w DE.

Though seems LED is probably better for SOG and HPS is definitely for the monsters.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

But is the top of the line Mars as good as top of the line Kind LED?

Definitely don't know much about LEDs just a friend had a room with 4 Kind LED lights, it was a few years ago but I believe he said they costed over $1,000 and they sucked!! I get way bigger buds with a 600 watt HPS let alone the 1,000w DE.

Though seems LED is probably better for SOG and HPS is definitely for the monsters.

Most of that tech they were using in those kind led's is old.....ther was a guy on the tube who opened one of ther flagship models up....loads of led's had burnt out or were melting stuff around them or smoking out the lenses....cheep led drivers I think 4 or six of them...for the led's used some thin heatsinks......they certainly wernt worth wat they were charging and still charge for those same lights.

 

[Mars Hydro Led]

But is the top of the line Mars as good as top of the line Kind LED?

Definitely don't know much about LEDs just a friend had a room with 4 Kind LED lights, it was a few years ago but I believe he said they costed over $1,000 and they sucked!! I get way bigger buds with a 600 watt HPS let alone the 1,000w DE.

Though seems LED is probably better for SOG and HPS is definitely for the monsters.

LED tech has stepped up a lot in past few years. I guess your friend used the old tech LED.

 

[CaptainDankness]

LED tech has stepped up a lot in past few years. I guess your friend used the old tech LED.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was before the COB LED's came out which sounded pretty good and I'm sure they've probably gotten better.

More so wondering if them real expensive Kind LED lights are actually better than higher end Mars LED's. I might start out with a Mars, worst case scenario it should be great for veg, best case I try to sell all my HPS lighting and go LED. Lol

Definitely need to research the LED's a little, to think I was really hopeful of plasma lights. Lol, a video way back about street lights made me think they were the future, tiny bulb puting out light like an HPS, just still hasn't been worked on much, must be more expensive for R&D cause it definitely had potential.

 

[Mars Hydro Led]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was before the COB LED's came out which sounded pretty good and I'm sure they've probably gotten better.

More so wondering if them real expensive Kind LED lights are actually better than higher end Mars LED's. I might start out with a Mars, worst case scenario it should be great for veg, best case I try to sell all my HPS lighting and go LED. Lol

Definitely need to research the LED's a little, to think I was really hopeful of plasma lights. Lol, a video way back about street lights made me think they were the future, tiny bulb puting out light like an HPS, just still hasn't been worked on much, must be more expensive for R&D cause it definitely had potential.

Our SP6500 and FC6500 are the best commercial grow light. They can replace 800-1000W HPS.

We cannot make sure if these are better than KIND LED. But we have got a lot of positive reviews from other customers.

Check more details about the lights here: https://bit.ly/30DesD0

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

Just about sold on the Growers Choice 720,after talking with other growers who have been cultivating for a decade or more and it comes down to these or HLG's Diablo....I like the bar lights over the Diablos board style ,seems to have better heat distribution.
Another draw back on HLG is the driver being top mounted requiring 1.5 feet below whatever you are mounting to.If you are starting with a 7' height,and factor in the distance required from the canopy,that 1.5 feet becomes a huge factor.After growing with hid for the past 11 years,I'm going to build a 2nd room and go LED in that one,not putting all my apples in one basket so to speak,with the learning curve....

 

[unclefishstick]

not to diss on mars,but i recently bought an HLG scorpion rspec and something went wrong with it,less than 24 hours after i let them know there was a new light on the way with a return label. while i'm not happy the light malfunctioned you can't beat that for warranty service...no questions asked,your new light is on the way...plus they give me a way better discount...

that said,none of my mars light have had any problems at all...or the tents...but from what i have read,if i did,it would be a much larger hassle...

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

not to diss on mars,but i recently bought an HLG scorpion rspec and something went wrong with it,less than 24 hours after i let them know there was a new light on the way with a return label. while i'm not happy the light malfunctioned you can't beat that for warranty service...no questions asked,your new light is on the way...plus they give me a way better discount...

that said,none of my mars light have had any problems at all...or the tents...but from what i have read,if i did,it would be a much larger hassle...

Customer service is huge , not dissing on mars either.I have also read others experiences with that said.

 

[unclefishstick]

i'm about to buy 2 more leds and i have to say hlg's quick response to this issue is weighing heavily in their favor...the pro bro deal helps too...