Suggestions please on vert PL-L cab build.

[patientpat]

Hello,
I've no experience with growing but am a keen low skilled D.I.Y.er. Having looked at a few options I was beguiled like many others by the untrained vertical grow seen in Ineffectulize's high-pod. He used a self mixed soil with no drainage.. So even with good luck he had a very tight handle on what he was doing and worked with only top down access to a hard to check on plant. Showoff!

I'm building a cabinet with front door access to the flower chamber - to remove the many dead efforts I'll make.. It will have Pl-l 55watts in all four corners and one in the middle at the back and maybe one hanging down in the middle/middle of ceiling so as to leave the door surface clear.
Also based on suggestions to increase flower chamber height I may run two height adjustable Pl-ls horizontally or some cfl's to help with the taller sativa doms I hope to grow. As these will likely out grow the 20"/50cm Pl-ls light throw when the purpose of this cab is to have as much plant as possible close to the intense light. I have allowed height beyond the top of the Pl-ls for more growth but may increase this.

With advice from you guys I hope to adjust veg time and height so plants have best chance at the flip to 12/12 to fill the flower chamber with minimum to no training to control height.

I expect even with the cab climate well adjusted that as a new grower I'll have problems. Although there is wealth of information on here I anticipate my involvement in plant demise

.
With free standing plants in flower and a standby plant in veg I hope to swap out till I have a successful run. Then can scale back to one plant grows.

I have attached a drawing of my design. I ask your indulgence as it's a bit busy but it shows a lot of what I'm trying to do.

I have already sourced the t12 tubes which I had to import and have the same spec lamps Inefectualize used and said were workable for veg and flower. I also have the locking type 2g11 lamp holders mentioned by another member. Am looking at phillips ballasts that power two pl-l's each.

Specific suggestions of placement of ballasts in or on surface of cab is welcome as I know they must be allowed to dissipate heat.

Suggestions on height to place Pl-ls bottom tip relative to the top of a 10" tall pot in flower chamber.

**(This would depend on suggestions for vegging Cindy 99 which I might ask your advice on first).

I was going have bottom tip of Pl-l light at 12" above top of pot as I was going to veg to 12" tall and hope it grew to 36 in flower. I have 8" above top of 2ft long Pl-l's and can add extra light there if required. So I have 36-38" max now but this can be increased. I could use shallower wider pots to allow more vert height if that's also an option.

I figuared on using the Systemair 6" RKV A1 380,3m/hr extractor fan. I've read to allow for up to 25% reduction in power from the carbon filter and I also needed to allow for the main cabinet duct/baffle under the the carbon filter exhausting the the 5-6 cool tubes as well as the the veg and flower chambers. If I dial down the power using the speed controller I thought that the 380m3/hr run at minimum or likely half power gave me plenty of head room to work with and hopefully would be QUIETish due it's low power use. It will be partially bedded in foam.

This design allows for me to work within limits of my own skills. I want to stick with Pl-ls and this concept as I've some confidence of seeing it to completion if I know I'm on right track with extraction power, light saturation and placement of lights for best use with a sativa dominant strain like Cindy 99.

Thanks for reading and thank to 420ish for encouraging me to run a tread after soliciting him for advice on vert Pl-l build.

 

[patientpat]

 

[420ish]

i am wondering how you are going to build the light baffles.if the cabinet does not need to be stealth i would run the fan and filter outside the box to give you more room for baffles and growing.i had my fan and filter outside the cabinet and pulled through pvc pipe.
make sure you have at least double the size passive air intakes including the reduction in size from the baffles.the more routing and piping you have reduces the airflow dramatically.

 

[420ish]

my new 50 watt led cob lights that i built from sammys cob fest would be a much easier option and probably less money then building the pll light.
i gave up on using pll bulbs years ago.i still use my pll cabinet for vegging and cloning but it is lit up with led lights now.
it was more complicated doing the pll set up and the results were not that good.
i have used straight t5 bulbs,pll bulbs,4 different generation commercial led lights and hps lights over the years.
if i was going to do a small cabinet grow again i would use the led cobs.the amount of light they put out for the price and how easy they are to build is why.i am using them to supplement my 600 watt hps in a 4 foot by 4 foot by 6 foot high cabinet.4 of them light the whole cabinet with the hps off.in a small cabinet like yours three for flower and 1 for veg would do better then running more then 4 pll's just in the flower chamber and you will get better buds.
does your cabinet need to be stealth?
your drawing shows you want at least 5 to 6 bulbs in flower chamber.if they are all 55 watt bulbs that will be alot of heat to get rid of.
my cabinet used 16 pll 55 watters using around 460 watts (not sure exactly anymore) on my kilawatt meter.that was for the lights only.
i quit using the pll bulbs since i got better buds and more of them when i used a 400 watt hps.
you can grow good buds with the 55 watters it just wasnt efficient enough for me.
i did not like that i had to wear uv protection goggles all the time also.

 

[patientpat]

The cool tube light baffles are just rotating/sliding covers to reduce or allow more airflow. They be on the top or bottom of the cooltubes and the intakes and outlets of the veg and flower chambers. Once I'd have the cooltubes feeling cool enough I'd then look to adjusting air flow rate in flower and veg chamber with the baffles to increase/decrease air exchange and adjust fan if needed as I understand that it's vital not to have to high of an air flow which can dehydrate the plants. The baffles just allow me some more control over the climate as I'm groping in the dark when it comes to growing. If I see humidity or temp outside of it's range I can play with baffles a little in the flower chamber and maybe add a small heater. I'd monitor all changes with temp and humidity readers till I had it right. My home is insulated ok but Irish weather can be very variable.

I've over speced fan so that gives me head room to run with regarding the loss of power.

Based on your strong suggestion and experience I am leaning toward the led cob. It's just that I've spent over e200 euro on parts for the pl-l set up already.

If I'd been aware of your's and others progress using leds I'd have moved that way.

I'm on the fence and am thinking I'd build pl-l cabinet to get going with a grow or two then move to led. I'd have to look hard on what's involved to see if I am able to build what you guys seem to do in your sleep.

 

[420ish]

the baffles i was talking about are light proof baffles.you do not want light from outside getting in to the cab.you also need light proof baffles between the flower and veg chambers.if you are going to use pll bulbs by the time you get the fittings and tubes and build the cab it will cost alot of money that will be scrapped when you go to led.
you can try selling the pll equipment on fish forums or return to where you bought it.

what are you trying to accomplish with this cabinet?how many plants?do you plan on running perpetual?does it need to look inconspicuous?do you need everything hidden in the cabinet?i build my cabinets out of osb plywood.mine dont need to look nice.with a little more info i will give any help you need designing what you want to accomplish.i have built over 5 different cabinets styles.

 

[mojave green]

sufficiently large passive intake/light baffles were always the difficult thing for me in my old cab days.

 

[patientpat]

Ahh...sorry..light baffles regarding the air intakes/out takes. Yes that was going to be a job in itself. I'd guessed that maybe a couple of louvered duct covers silicone together with small spacer gaps and maybe a third inner cover would block light.

My grow plan was in my looong first post...so buried in the quagmire. I'm new to this and presented a lot in lump.

I intend to run two plants in flower and one in veg till I manage to get one or two plants to end of flowering period successfully. Then I would I would just run 1 plant with one in veg. When I have enough herb for near a year I'd stop. So a couple of runs a year of two plants in flower would be it. After I get some idea of how to grow I'd run one in flower and one in veg as back up. The law is very strict and I'm too old to fall foul of anything serious.

Has to be stealth regarding odor and has to look reasonable to the eye but not pretty.

I'd aim to have parts within the cab but this is not an absolute requirement. On a casual glance I'd prefer it to look like a just a tall press in the corner.

I was going to use a fire resistant board, sourced local and as cheap as mdf and other sheet board I do get to build it. Paint it flat white with a fire retardant/resistant paint. I've an automatic extinguisher lined up for less then e100 that would hopefully contain any fire. Am looking at how I might use a relay switch (no idea as yet) that would cut power to lights if the extractor/cooling fan ever stopped. Can't afford a fire, end of life as I know it if that happened!

 

[patientpat]

This started by me asking how Tilt and you (420ish) vented the cooltubes. A description and parts used would be great. I've a design I can blunder through and get going but what ever you and Tilt managed to do I'd be very keen to understand.

I do see myself moving to led but I'd run a few grows with the box I'm trying to build now first. I've a lot to learn and getting a light set up is just one part which I want to move on asap. It will pay for itself fully by the second grow even if yield low. Once I've something working that's when I'd look to building led lights. Once I'm happy with them I,d rebuild cab around them.

Just want to get going asap on build. Still have a few parts to order. The 6inch rkv is ok at 380m/hr. Plenty of overhead power which I'll dial down with a speed control. And will use a carbon 12 rhino or phresh to start. Will make a flat bed filter in the future to greatly cut costs. Want a few off the shelf parts like the filter to start as I want to focus on other aspects of build which are pure d.i.y.

 

[420ish]

the top and middle exhaust chambers were sealed.the 6 inch fan pulled air through the pll cool tubes from near the bottom of the growing chambers.the air intake was at the top of both grow chambers using 3 inch pvc pipe.the pvc fittings that held the cool tubes were 1 1/4 inch fittings from home depot.the cool tubes were t8 bulb protectors.i modified the pvc fittings with a die grinder to enable the mounting of the 2g bases for the bulbs.it took alot of time and playing with my die grinder to get it to work.
i tried using sketch up and wasted a few hours and it looked even worse then this drawing!
my cabinet did not need to be stealthly!
i had 8 bulbs in each level.4 rows of 2 bulbs.the cabinet was 2 foot deep by 4 foot wide and 7 foot high.
the cool tubes ends were a little lower then the height of my pots so the airflow from the top was pulled to the bottom around the plants and then up around the bulb and out.
i hope this helps

 

[patientpat]

Hey pal, thanks for taking the time to do that. I remember you saying you'd no pictures of your pl-l cab so appreciate the pain of effort of trying to work with sketch up. I also gave tried that same cad prog and said...f...k it, ha ha. This a help and am taking it on board. Hadn't thought of it that way at all.

Are they two flowering chambers originally? I know you said you use that cab to veg now.

I was going to veg cindy 99 till she got to 12 inches then flip. I was going to have the bottom of the pl-l lamps positioned so the top of the girl at flip was near level to the bottom of lamp when I place her in flower chamber. So then she'd have 20 inches to grow up and past the lamp. I'd have some suspended lights that will raise with her and past the top of the pl-l lights encourage more height and bud.

Does this veg height sound reasonable I've zero growing experience and am part of the cab design is to be have it geared toward sativa dominant strains. Am looking at growing to 4ft max with zero to no training. I greatly like the idea of having free standing plant that I can pull out if I f..k up grow and replace it with minimal fuse. Later I'd move toward experimenting with topping, and using a screen to train plants but for I want a cab that allows me low stress experience l.s.e. (!) with this new growing experience.

Or... should I flip sooner as I recall the high-pod flowering started with the girl very small and she branched out and up aggressively- if I'm understanding what I saw. I thought Ineffectualize said he used a cutting from a sativa but then I'm sure someone else said he used a indeca dominant strain.

Now I have your venting system design and some ideas of my own I can start to play with getting more bits.

 

[420ish]

they were both flower chambers.
if you are going to go with pll i would set them all up vertical.
each strain is different for when you want to flip to 12 12 lighting.
figure at least 35 to 40 watts a square foot of space for good growing.if you can it is best to have 50 watts a square foot but it will be hard with the pll bulbs to achieve that.
if you want to grow only 1 flowering plant at a time,you would be better off going with led cob lights like sammy built.it cost less then 40 bucks each light.you could build two identical size chambers with two cobs in each.they would penetrate the whole plant if you are only growing a 2 to 2 1/2 foot plant.use one light for veg and two when flowering.25 watts a foot with these high powered leds should work better then 200 watts of pll.

a 6 foot high 4 foot wide cab 2 foot deep split in the middle making 2 chambers 2x2x4 with a 2 foot chamber at the top for light traps and your fan filter would work for either set up led or pll.the problem with pll is you cant adjust the height and if the plant stretches there is not much you can do.

 

[420ish]

if you go with pll you can use 4 bulbs in the corners.the problem is the bulb is only 22 inches long and my design means they would only come down into the chamber 22 inches and it is 48 inches high.also you would be using 400 watts in both chambers instead of 150 or 200 if using 3 or 4 cobs.

 

[420ish]

in my earlier post,the 460 watts was per level not the whole cabinet.the whole thing with the fan was around 1000 watts

 

[patientpat]

What treads do you suggest to look at for cob build cool tubes as I've no notion of parts beyond what I've seen on Sammy's tread.

I'm still hell bent on pl-l for now just because I've parts at hand and want to use them to pay for themselves and to just get me started.

But would like to see also what's involved in led cool tubes.

As I mentioned before I'm going for a no training grow where the plant grows toward and up along a cool tube. Is this been done with the led cobs? I'm hoping to get some actual work done on this by end of this month. Thanks again, it helps to have folk who know there thing that I can bother with my questions.

 

[patientpat]

financial bother looming on horizon. Looks like we will have to rent a room out in future so kiboshed this on me. A friend has taken the materials to run with, he's a sparks and said he'l play with and ideas on here. Thanks greatly for the feedback.