sugabear's den

[HeadyPete]

Thanks Suga, i shall enjoy my time here as I crash! I also clean up after myself, cook, handy around the house, where do I open my sleeping bag?

RIP OB1s They kicked the bucket yesterday, never formed roots, and just rotted. Never knew the sex, so let's call them boys.

OB1.2 girls are good (one really good and growing and one looking like it will pop any time) I look forward to flowering this late growing clone. If it doesn't make it, then back to the drawing board with new clones from OB1.2 mom.

BG has shut down due to personal reasons and has found a good home for all his moms (not me). No guarantee that he will be able to recover them later, so I am the last keeper of the genes. Oh the pressure.....

I have every intention of seeing these out to bud so I can enjoy your hard work.

Hopefully I will be able to set up BG with genetics when he can get back up.

This frees up some room for my Mountain Jam seeds now...silver lining...just need to get a few LUI into the flower chamber before I pop 10 seeds!

Take care and be well, my friend.

 

[JJDubz]

Looks great sug, expect nothin less from you bro!

 

[guest5703]

nice grow eh? I'll take a seat

 

[Pipedream]

BUMP -

Hey buddy, a month has gone by since your last update.

How about a few pic's or words of wisdom.

We're waiting to be enlightened or entertained.

 

[sugabear_II]

hey pipedream thanks for stopping by - I will try and post up something interesting and enlightening... just summer and been crazy busy.

Anything in particular you'd like me to post on? maybe some discussion of my DWC techniques...

anyhow sorry to hear about the sata nash sproutin balls - we'll have to get you something new in your garden before long..

-suga

 

[J-Roc]

sugarbear! sup dood!
this is one of the best threads on the site!
should be sticky!

so many pics with every post!
and awesome pics!

thanks so much dood! great thread!

 

[NiteTiger]

What's up Suga!

Sorry I'm late, but I've got my seat now!

 

[greenfelix]

DWC setup

DWC setup

hey Sugabear,

Man, your grows are so inspiring. It'll be a while before I can try my first grow, and even at that point it will have to be super stealth. So I'm just in info gathering / planning mode at this point.

I'm pretty sure the most I'll be able to do is a cab about the size of your 150. Could you post some information on your DWC setup? I.e. fertilizer concentration, feeding schedule, re-feed concentrations, etc etc? I'm super interested in hearing how you handled the feeding in the 2 gallon containers.

From seed/clone, did you use that wick setup you talked about in other posts to get the girls into the DWC?

Also, in some other thread you had mentioned you were thinking of trying some lowryders. Did you ever do that experiment? I'd also be interested to know if you thought it was worth trying those, or just sticking with the scrog technique you use.

Thanks

 

[Lemon]

Sweet thread Sugabear. Those OB1's look rediculous! Any plans on putting them on seedbay

Oh, and as you've grown a number of strains in similar conditions, I was wondering how you would rate the yield of NL99 in comparison to other strains? Average, low, high? I was also wondering about what size pump(s) you use and how much noise they make. How advantageous have you found hydro?

One last q (sorry, haha). Are there any other strains you might recommend for a micro grower in my situation? Thanks!

Take care!

 

[sugabear_II]

hey Sugabear,

Man, your grows are so inspiring. It'll be a while before I can try my first grow, and even at that point it will have to be super stealth. So I'm just in info gathering / planning mode at this point.

I'm pretty sure the most I'll be able to do is a cab about the size of your 150. Could you post some information on your DWC setup? I.e. fertilizer concentration, feeding schedule, re-feed concentrations, etc etc? I'm super interested in hearing how you handled the feeding in the 2 gallon containers.

greenfelix - first thanks for your kind words I am glad I can provide inspiration.

My DWC setup is kinda unique in it's way - I'll try explaining and will add some pictures if I can find some that illustrate what I am talking about.

I used both 2.5 quart buckets as well as 2 gallon buckets.

I would use 2.5 quart buckets for when I was starting from seed and needed to fit more seedlings in the cabinet than I was going to have finish (i.e. start 4-5 seeds to get 2 good females). These two pictures show both the 2.5 quart buckets and the 2 gallon bucket. When I used the 2.5 gallon buckets I would take foil sided foam insulation and make a lid for the bucket out of it. I alternated between just making a 1" square hole and sticking the RW cube in there with some metal skewers holding it in place and putting a net pot in there. In the end I found net pots had an advantage in keeping stem rot and other diseases at bay.










So I would use the foam for lids on my 2.5 quart buckets. I would rarely veg more than 2 weeks at which point I would flip to 12/12 - within 10-14 days I would know the sex and then pick my females which would go into the bigger buckets.

Here's some pictures showing a run I did with two clones per 2 gallon bucket and using just the foam as a lid - I later found the actual lids fit better.





Now this is where the foam lid becomes really handy. I used plain old 2 gallon buckets that you can find at homedepot with the matching plastic lids. What I would do is cut a square hole in the lid a bit bigger than the 3" net pot. Then I would simply and gently guide the roots and net pot into that hole such that the foam lid from the 2.5 quart bucket now fit on top of the plastic lid for the 2 gallon bucket. Viola - transplant without shock and without mess. Then I would take some foil tape (which I covered the buckets in as well) and tape the foam lid to the plastic lid and make it all one solid unit.

Next came the scrog - I took a drill and made [edit] 4 holes in the sides of the bucket lids. Then I took metal skewers that you can buy at walmart 4 for $2. I bent the skewers at a 90 degree angle about 5-6" down from the eye at the top. Then I would trim down the bent piece to be around 2-3" and stick it in the whole I made in the side of the lid. This is how I attached the supports for my screen - if you look at the picture above again on the scrogged plant you can see the skewers and what I am talking about. These pictures show it in detail on dissassembly





I used the bigfatj super simple scrog screens which are just metal coat hangers and twisties tie material - The loops or eyes at the top of the skewer worked well as I would guide the corners of the screen into them and then a little duct tape to secure.

The idea is to make the lid, screen, and plant all one stable unit so that I can easily lift it up for changing nutrients.

If you look closely in this picture you can see the foam lid on top of the plastic lid all covered in aluminum foil duct tape.




OK - now that I've explained the setup - I'll get back to the question you asked about changing schedules and nutrient strength and what not.

I tried fox farms and advanced nutrients but in the end found the best nutrients I used and continue to use and will probably never again stray from is General Hydro's FloraNova - I use it in veg and bloom - just absolutely the best stuff I've found - one word of caution - it must be shaken very vigorously and if you stop growing for a month and leave it sitting it will solidify and you may as well just throw it out. The stuff is super concentrated and a single bottle will last you several grows.

I also used GH floraliscous but could never tell if it really did much.

I swear by fulvic acid as it helps to increase terpine production yielding stinkier and stickier buds in my experience. Again I tried a few and found the GH diamond nectar to be best.

Root rot is a danger in DWC always so I used Hygrozyme and found that it kept things under control very nicely.

I changed my nutrients usually twice a week but sometimes would go a whole week. This is pretty wasteful but in my experience as a small grower the nutrient cost was so little that it was easier for me to just toss and mix fresh.

I used bionova pk 13-14 at first but later found that GH bloom worked just as well and was cheaper - Floranova has a high level of N - I would therefor start reducing the floranova and replacing it with GH bloom which is just P and K during the final weeks of flower to deprive N.

It's always a good idea to have extra buckets around as you can place the plant/lid/screen combo in an extra bucket while you mix the nutrients.

I usually mixed each bucket on it's own which isn't too bad when you're doing just a couple of buckets - when I ran more buckets I would mix a big batch in a rubber made tub and just fill the buckets out of that.

So I would start my mix with 100ppm or so of epsom salts as many of the strains I grew really sucked up the MG.

From there I'd add my floranova - I found mixing the floranova in a cup with water first and then pouring the mix in gave me the best results. For a 9 week strain I would progress my nutrient ppm as follows (remember this is on top of what ever the starting ppm is plus the epsom salts ppm - so you're measuring change here - not total ppm)




week1 - 500ppm of floranova
week2 - 600ppm of floranova
week3 - 700ppm of floranova
week4 - 750ppm of floranova (I found most strains 750 ppm was max they would tolerate well - some strains could take more - some less - just keep upping it until you see tip burn and then back off 50ppm)
week5 - 500ppm of floranova plus 250ppm of GH bloom
week6 - 250ppm of floranova plus 500ppm of GH bloom
week7 - 500ppm of GH bloom
week8 - 250ppm of GH bloom
week8.5 - water flush
week9 - water flush


I used fulvic acid every week except the last. I also used hygrozyme every week except the last. Some strains I would begin flush at start of week8.

I tried using a teaspoon of sugar in the raw (sugar with the molasses still left in) during flush and later half of flower but never really could see any change as a result.


Oh and one very important bit of edit for folks about ph - I usually kept it around 5.4-5.6 at the time I mixed the buckets and would not check or adjust until I just changed and tossed the old.

From seed/clone, did you use that wick setup you talked about in other posts to get the girls into the DWC?

Yes I used the wick setup for the seedlings and clones and would place the cubes once roots had begun coming out of the bottoms into the net pots or just hanging in the lid as described above. You don't need to worry about getting all the perlite off them either - it won't cause any issues in DWC.

Also, in some other thread you had mentioned you were thinking of trying some lowryders. Did you ever do that experiment? I'd also be interested to know if you thought it was worth trying those, or just sticking with the scrog technique you use.

Thanks

I never got around to trying the lowryders - I had wanted to but just never did.
In my experience I was able to take an 8-9 week flowering strain from seed to harvest in 90 days or less so I didn't see the need to do the LR thing.

In DWC things grow soo quickly and I never grew a really low stretch indica so I found 2 weeks veg and flip always filled my screens fully and that was all I ever needed to do.

So yeah I stuck with the scrog technique and never messed with SOG or other styles. I'd still like to give LR a shot - but outdoors - I can see it blending in real well in a flower garden

 

[sugabear_II]

Sweet thread Sugabear. Those OB1's look rediculous! Any plans on putting them on seedbay

Lemon - I only made around 70-80 OB1 seeds and then I lost the mom (she was a bitch to clone). All but the 10 I saved for myself have been given away at this point. So the answer is no I don't have plans to put them on seedbay. If I had the chance to do it again I'd make more seeds and give more away and maybe if I had some extra give them to gypsy for freebies. The Oregon90 was a gift for medical use and I would never seek to profit from it.

Oh, and as you've grown a number of strains in similar conditions, I was wondering how you would rate the yield of NL99 in comparison to other strains? Average, low, high?

The NL99 pheno I had was of above average yield IMO. The woodhorse Trainwreck yielded even better. I would have kept growing the NL99 but it was too racey for me.

I was also wondering about what size pump(s) you use and how much noise they make. How advantageous have you found hydro?

I used the whisper series of pumps which are extra quiet. I found a 60gallon pump could power two 2 gallon buckets nicely. When I ran 6 buckets I used the 60gallon pump plus a 100gallon pump.

One last q (sorry, haha). Are there any other strains you might recommend for a micro grower in my situation? Thanks!

Take care!

Oh gosh that's a tuff one - I really liked the burmese as it clicks perfectly with my brain chemstry but others have found it to be weak or not really "sativa like".

I had mixed results from female seeds - I liked the grapefruit alot and found it to be very similar to the NL99 but less racey which suited me well - but I didn't care for the ICE too much - I have a friend who thinks it's pretty good so it may just be me.

But in the end there is a distinct advantage to having all female plants in a micro grow.

The NL99 is a great all around strain and it has the advantage of being low low odor as you already know.

I guess I need to know what you like in a buzz? are you an indica lover or a sativa fanatic?

I've always wanted a good blueberry in my garden but was let down a little by the blue thunder. I hear the NLxBB by atomic is top notch but then again you've already got some NL genes....

so I don't know - tell me what you like and I'll tell you what looks good to me.

Mandala seems to be up and coming and nicely priced - hashberry seems to be consistently good and short in stature making it good for a micro grow. I also have my eye on their kalichara as it looks damn fine.

-suga

 

[HeadyPete]

Hey Suga!

I've heard great things about the Mandala Speed Queen and Soulshine is doing a grow thread of it right now. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=68689

I totally agree with the fulvic. I use it as a ph down in my coco grow instead of "hydro" phosphoric acid. I use the Grotek Gold LXR or whatever it is. So much better as a down.

No kidding about the hard to clone OB1. I have a cut in peat pellet for 3 weeks now almost, and no roots. I had the thought that between the peat low ph and the 6.5 water I was using, that it was too acidic and inhibiting root growth, so I am using my plain 7.8 tap water to compensate. I also built a wick cloner and will take the three tops off the OB1 today and see if that works better. I really want to be able to clone this girl.

I just put 10 Mountain Jam seeds in pellets, that's a DJ Short True BB crossed with a Cannabis Cowboy Soulshine (the plant, not the IC member!), so we'll see how those BB genetics come through.

I am using GH BioBizz Gro, Bloom, TopMax, and PreMix, with CalMax and Fulvic for ph down and so far it is great with my coco/perlite/worm casting/kelp and lime mix.

Suga is the man! I think I may be in possession of one of the only OB1s out there now.....unless Bluenath (sp?) still has a mom or 2.

 

[NiteTiger]

Suga is the man! I think I may be in possession of one of the only OB1s out there now.....unless Bluenath (sp?) still has a mom or 2.

Well, no mom here yet, but I do have some OB1 Beans

 

[Black Ra1n]

Hey sugabear_II, been a while since I popped in. You seem to have a bunch on the go, looking good man. Love the setup!! Looking forward to seeing them grow up.

B/R

 

[Lemon]

Thanks for answering all those questions, appreciate it!

I guess I need to know what you like in a buzz? are you an indica lover or a sativa fanatic?

I've always wanted a good blueberry in my garden but was let down a little by the blue thunder. I hear the NLxBB by atomic is top notch but then again you've already got some NL genes....

so I don't know - tell me what you like and I'll tell you what looks good to me.

Mandala seems to be up and coming and nicely priced - hashberry seems to be consistently good and short in stature making it good for a micro grow. I also have my eye on their kalichara as it looks damn fine.

-suga

Female seeds would be oh so very convenient, I must admit. I'm actually currently trying to think how I'm going to manage this with non feminized seeds since I need to start training them into my scrog before I'll know thier sex. Even if I did start training the plants that turned out to be male and then pick them out of the screen afterward, it would be really difficult to repot the remaining females into larger pots once they are in the screen (I'd have to veg in smaller pots to create sufficient room for the required number of unsexed plants to get the number of girls I want. Oh so many things to worry about, heh.


What do I like in a buzz? All in the head! Theres no such thing as too racy for me, And I've never experienced paranoia. I also hate feeling tired after smoking. I actually want to, at some point, attempt the rediculous and grow Hawaiian Snow (pure sativa, and 14 weeks i believe) inside a 2.5 ft cabintet, haha!

I'll check out all the strains you've mentioned so far. Thanks again for the info!

 

[greenfelix]

Sugabear,

Thanks for all the info and the detailed response! This info is gold, pure gold. And I really appreciate that you are willing to share your knowledge.

I can't want to try my first grow. If I can get half the yield you get, I'll be happy!

Of course my challenge is designing a stealth grow. I plan on building a computer storage desk which will be attached to an L shaped office desk (making a sort of U shaped structure), which hopefully will keep anyone from wondering why a small amount of space is missing in the back corner (3 sq ft of surface space out of 30-35 sq feet should be hidable!)

So this depends on being able to build a stealth exhaust system. Could you please tell me more about the can filter? Is it a tube filled with carbon, which you push air through one end and the clean air comes out the other? Can it sit vertically or does it have to be horizontal? Do you think it could work with a 50CFM fan pushing air in one end and another 50CFM fan pulling air out the other? I ask since these smaller fans are quiet enough (17-18dbA) that they could be shrugged off as computer noise.

 

[vintner]

Hey Suga: Nice thread Brother. Thanks for all the hard work. Very informative, and AWESOME pix! You've got me itchin' to try hydro some time.

 

[HeadyPete]

green felix if I may suggest, http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=45196 for a quieter filter/fan setup. The key to quiet is larger fans running slower. They run slower, but move more air because of their size. They are quiter because of the lower rpms. Bigger is always better with ventilation. A 2x big system running at 1/2 speed is ideal.

This is the cylindrical can filter - http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=29402

Can filter can be vert or horizontal.

This is the complete do it yourself link list http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=40637

Good luck with that!

 

[greenhead]

Great thread, tons of nice pictures and there's a wealth of information here as well !

 

[buzzed day]

hello suga,i enjoy the pics you do.the scrogs are the best thanks and have a buzzed day.peace