Stunted in Veg, new to coco

[colo720]

Hi, thanks for input. .2 EC is only 140ppm , almost no nutrients, as my tap water is around 100ppm. right now they're getting 600ppm, with the feed schedule recommended by H&G for week 2 of flower.

I looked at images of magnesium deficiencies, and it looks like its the fan leaves that show yellowing damage at the edges. the fan leaves on my plants have no discoloration - they are solid green. the light green yellowing is appearing at the center of new growth.

I'll flush again at 140ppm, with some phosphorus and potassium. I have shooting powder (0-9-20). But basically to flush at 140ppm I would add just a touch of shooting powder to the tap water. Does this sound right?

 

[colo720]

Boron deficiency?

Boron deficiency?

Has anyone had Boron deficiency? Check out the picture I posted here - taken from the web. this is the closest looking thing to my plants I can find, and check out the description:

Cannabis leaves and roots show abnormal and slowed growth when showing a boron defiency. The first signs of a cannabis boron deficiency is abnormal or thick growth tips. New leaves may display chlorosis (yellowing of leaves). Stems may become rough or hollow. The plant may look like it has a calcium deficiency because boron is needed for the plant to properly use calcium. New growth is affected the most, and may look like it's been burnt or scorched.

How to fix it: Boron is not absorbed will without enough potassium and nitrogen, or if there isn't enough moisture. You plant may also exhibit signs of a boron deficiency if the pH is too high or low. Flush your system with clean, pH'd water that contains about half the nutrients needed for the plant and watch to make sure that the problem clears up for new growth.

https://gr0wing.blogspot.com/2012/05/marijuana-problems-symptoms-how-to.html


I re-posted the pic of my plant underneath for comparison. Could this be it? I feel like I already did the flush recommendation with no improvement. There is plenty of moisture - I still think the problem may be from overwatering at one point. Any ideas?

 

[Bird of Hermes]

Coco is the only medium i have no expirence in literally used everything else at some point but that so i'll do my best and try to help you brainstorm here. Those temps and rh readings seem good to me at least. Ive used h&g nutes in soil and hyrdo a lot i had the shooting powder once but cant remember why i stopped using it so cant give advice on it. Right now im using cannazyme and as far as additives go i use snow storm ultra, sugaree, crystal burst, g2 gravity and magiCal. H&G is good stuff though i still got some just giving cannazyme a try for awhile.

I'll look at your pics some more and search around the web and see if others are having a similar issue and what caused it.

 

[p0opstlnksal0t]

I need more pictures to be able to help you out more.

For the coco plants - do a runoff test and report back the PH and PPM going in vs coming out. Capture the first 0-15 seconds of run off, then separately the next 15-30, then 30-45 seconds of runoff.

To me they look overwatered and not over fed. Using a timed system to indiscriminately water your plants is a terrible idea in some circumstances. In almost all situations, a pot of 100% coco with no perlite cut into it is NOT going to need water twice a day unless your plants are 5 feet tall.... and even then it's a stretch... I work in a licensed production garden in Colorado using 100% coco. I grow thousands of plants. Some plants drink faster than others.. you would be surprised...

I would say stop automatically watering your plants for now until they recover. Hand water only. I trust you know how to tell when your plants need water - the pots will be paper light and will almost jump out of your hands when you go to pick it up and feel the weight. Same for the rockwool no exceptions until you get your plants back on track. Since you are in veg, I would say you will want to wait until not only the pots are dry but wait until your plants start to flag slightly from being so dry and then go ahead and soak the pot with plenty of runoff. Plants love the feast and famine of dry downs and soakings and dry downs and soakings.

Get back to us let me know what you think...

I would agree with this

My plants were watered once a day for 1 minute intervals when they went straight from cloner to 5g pots... big change there but the once a day watering built up the roots in a week. I also had to flush every other day with pH tap water. The salts will build up in coco if even the top few inches dry out. After a week I went to twice daily then 3 times then 4 times a day watering. I'm now at about 6 waterings a day.

temps 70-84 - humid 25%-60%

Those a really some pretty drastic changes. Do your plants see these changes in a 24 hour cycle?


Also you gotta check your runoff in coco. That will tell you a lot

Also recirculating your runoff from coco may not be a good thing. How do you know what the feed water ratio is if your plants eat different nutes at different rates.

 

[colo720]

The temps 70-84 F and rH 25-60 represents a 5-6 day period, but yes that is typical of a 24 hr period. 25 rH when the exhaust / intake fans are cooling the room (i'm in an area of very low rH). and when the lights are off the humidity climbs. I have dehueys to keep it closer to 50% night time.

yes, I check my runoff in coco, I installed a small cup to catch the tray runoff before it returns to the res. it's about 100 to 150ppm above the res ppm. I've been told the organic canna coco is ok for recirculating.

feed water ratio of my plants if plants eat different nutes at different rates - i'm not sure - but i haven't worried about this in the past and i've had above average success. do you think it will help with the current issue?

 

[maimunji]

I use h&g cocos in coco, no run off from start to finish.
How much ab do you use per litre?
Do you use cocos or aqua flakes? If you recirculated I highly recommend you to buy aqua flakes for basic nutes because they are much more stable than cocos which is for drain to waste.
Are your tap water proven? Do you have succesful harvest with this setup with this water?
Plants looks overfeeding with Nitrogen it is possible tap water loaded with Nitrates?
You said tippically for this stage of growth your ppm is 900(1.8 e.c). This is insane high.

 

[colo720]

Hi,

1. aqua flakes, I had it left over from rock wool grows, I still use recirculating system, and I'm told aqua flakes not that different from cocos
2. yes tap water proven, many previous average to above average harvests, using aqua flakes a/b and up to 1200 ppm in week 5, before dropping it down to 600ppm final 3 weeks with shooting powder.
3. I've looked at nitrogen toxicity pictures and they all have yellowing fan leaves which mine don't have. plus, if it is nitrogen toxicity, I've already flushed and cleared out the media - Feb 5 was the first flush, and again on the 10th, and at that point only running 300ppm, flakes a/b so i don't know where the toxicity would come from.
4. is 900ppm insanely high??? not to me or my circle. i did an experiment based on the h&G feed chart, using the amounts of nutes per liter and it did come out to 900 in week 5. Plus I've been running like that without any tips burnt.

If it is nitrogen toxicity and i've already flushed a bunch and lowered ppm and it hasn't improved, what else you recommend? thank you

 

[Bird of Hermes]

Damn this is a tough situation i feel your pain brother but for a different reason i got broad mites raping my girls. Are the leaves drooping right now?

Ive always ran up to around 600ppms in vegging maybe more if they are giants. Flower ppms go up to 1200 some hungry strains go up to 1800. If you had too much ppms in veg or expirenced toxicity of a certain nute it could take weeks of flushing.

 

[Bird of Hermes]

Maybe try using ro water with just a touch of cal-mag and/or a tsp of epsom salts for awhile. Look for a glacier water dispenser or something in a parking of a store somewhere where you can get 5gl of ro water for a buck. Might be something in your tap water?

 

[colo720]

hey hermes, I can help you with broad mites, i've crushed them (but not before they crushed me first). I nuke 'em pretty hard with 3-4 different miticides. if you don't catch them early enough, you'll end up with duds. and if they've bitten hard enough into your moms, forget about those genetics they're gone.

my leaves aren't dropping and I'm confident i don't have broad mites cause there's no leaf taco-ing, and the leaves are nice and green vs. the rust brown

my tap water is super clean, around 100ppm or less, i haven't had problems with it before. i have no problem watering when pots are dry with say 150ppm water, that extra 50ppm is calmag and epsom salts. you recommend 1 tsp - is that 1 tsp/gallon? and maybe run it for the next 7 days as they need water, which will probably be only 2 or 3 max waterings

 

[Bird of Hermes]

Oh yeah they got me good took out half my grow im hitting my last two ladies with big time exterminator and green cleaner. After that im shutting down and heat treating and bleaching the room.

Might have just been some nute lockout of some kind they look somewhat happy in that pic. Unless growth completely stalls for weeks at a time id personally keep em going if you got the space to and see if it turns around. Good luck man

 

[Bird of Hermes]

Damn sorry lol forgot to say yeah just like 1 tsp a gallon of epsom salts. Normally cannabis wants more cal then mag like around a 3-1 ratio but some strains get mg hungry. If a feeding or two of the added mg helps then there will be your answer.

Mg defs respond well to foliar application so you can try that for a little while and see what happens.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

Hi, thanks for input. .2 EC is only 140ppm , almost no nutrients, as my tap water is around 100ppm. right now they're getting 600ppm, with the feed schedule recommended by H&G for week 2 of flower.

The 0.2 EC of high P/K nutrients is on top of your water's EC - 140ppm plus 100ppm or 240, just over 1/3 of what you're feeding them now.

The purpose is to flush excess nutrients out of the soil, in case they are locking out nutrients. At the same time the Phosphorus is going to stimulate (very rapid) new root creation so the plant can take up more nutrients.

I looked at images of magnesium deficiencies, and it looks like its the fan leaves that show yellowing damage at the edges. the fan leaves on my plants have no discoloration - they are solid green. the light green yellowing is appearing at the center of new growth.

And they are showing classic magnesium deficiency/lockout. Here's why.

Magnesium deficiency moves up from the middle leaves of the plant. The oldest leaves are in the most advanced stage.

You can see the lower leaf with the crispy edges.

The newer leaves are a deep green, with an almost blueish hue. That is classical for early or mild magnesium deficiency. The edges of the newer leaves are already affected.

I'll flush again at 140ppm, with some phosphorus and potassium. I have shooting powder (0-9-20). But basically to flush at 140ppm I would add just a touch of shooting powder to the tap water. Does this sound right?

It sounds excellent to me at 240ppm (100ppm tapwater plus 140ppm Shooting Powder). You should always let the solution sit next to the plants for at least an hour so there is no temperature shock to the roots. It's more important that they're the same temperature, than that they're any specific right temperature.

Just flush the plant with that, and let it recover for a couple of days. You should also spray it with a solution of epsom salt (MgSO4).

 

[colo720]

Update / Conclusion

Update / Conclusion

Hi all, thanks for all your input. With your help I believe the original problem has been solved. This post is a conclusion to help anyone who may experience similar problems. (I also have a new question regarding the final picture of damage leaves)

Corrections for future grows:
1. add perlite to coco (don't grow in 100% coco)
2. carefully monitor coco, and only water when pot begins to dry out
3. I realize this is a given to most folks, but not to a coco newbie, despite years experience in 6" rockwool.

It appears the mom's are better - are no longer duds. over half the veg plants are better (and the other half on the fence), and the girls in flower are flowering, see pictures below.

1. Moms (pic 1): pure coco in 1gal smart pots. status: recovered. achieved by not watering daily. I allowed the pots to dry out for a few days before watering again, and at that point I flushed and I've been running weak nutrient solution 400ppm since. after an 18 hour light cycle they start to get dry, I'm watering just 1/day.

2. Veg plants (pic 2): same

3. Flower plants (picture 3): same - but these still look stunted. the pistols look good and I hope they'll pack on some weight.

4. new question: picture 4: weird discolored leaves - can't find any match on chart of deficiency's (pic 5). this came off of an auto white widow, wk 3 of flower. some of its sisters have the same issue. any ideas?

 

[Bird of Hermes]

Glad to hear you have at least some plants recovering im guessing it was overwatering from what you are saying? Coco can retain moisture pretty well so that would make sense. Pics didnt load maybe retry to post or try to describe the leaves as best you can.

 

[colo720]

Here are the 5 pictures that were intended to go with my last post:

1. moms
2. veg
3. flower
4. discolored
5. chart

 

[TanzanianMagic]

Hi all, thanks for all your input. With your help I believe the original problem has been solved. This post is a conclusion to help anyone who may experience similar problems. (I also have a new question regarding the final picture of damage leaves)

Corrections for future grows:
1. add perlite to coco (don't grow in 100% coco)

Personally when I grow in coco, I prefer coco only with a perlite or grow rock drainage layer.

With coco only you need to water less, say every other day. However that depends on your environment, RH, temperature, etc. You can check out what you can get away with by not watering/feeding a couple of days and see what happens and when.