"STRAINS" or Varieties and Cultivars?

[kopite]

Unfortunately, you are the one who is missing the point. Sam is talking anything but science. Its one more personal wrong taxonomy/classification that couple of people who share interests tend to agree on and he uses wrong terminology too. Anything but science.

In horticulture a clone is referred to as a Cultivar (and it shouldn't in italic like this auto thing does!!) abbreviation of cultivated variety, it doesn't have to be true to type but is grown out as we do with our clones!! a Variety (Var) is true breeding.... so i'd say the those terms are spot on.

 

[l33t]

well then you obviously know what you are doing ( scientist ) and you will win everytime by using different terminology. The only problem will be no effective communication. But the excellent chess player will have better understanding of science even if he uses wrong terminology. He will be able to reproduce results ( win again and again ). Compared to the other player where he knows all the names for the rules and pieces but he is a crap player.

If you get caught up with knowing the names better than playing the games, you are missing the point.

Correct terminology is good not only when talking science but in general. It's called effective communication. It applies to science as it applies to anything that is written or spoken.

I use strain as it is defined in the cambridge dictionary :
Thesaurus

strain noun (TYPE)

› [C] a ​particular ​type or ​quality: A strain of ​puritanism ​runs through all her ​work.
› [C] an ​animal or ​plant from a ​particular ​group whose ​characteristics are different in some way from ​others of the same ​group: Scientists have ​discovered a new strain of the ​virus which is much more ​dangerous.

Maybe thats why you capitilize Strain ? It would be wrong to capitalize it in any way no ?

 

[Brelva]

Language evolvs because people use terms OUTSIDE of their definitions.
Doesn't make the slang terms correct at all & in fact...
It convolutes our language even further, making it more difficult for folks that are trying to learn the language to properly do so.

We define words for the sake of clarity in language. To make it easier for us to fully understand one another.

To rely on slang language and expect others to understand your speech is a fools game.

Learn tge language, speak the language.
We're not trying to reinvent the wheel.

Trying to get people to say 'revolving transportation disc' instead of 'wheel' is indeed not trying to reinvent the wheel, you're correct. It is, however, rather silly and pedantic in my opinion.

 

[MJPassion]

Indica, and Sativa are terms that will never go away. Neither will the concepts behind them.

I have given up trying to explain anything about cannabis genetics to anyone in the outside world. Last night someone was insisting the TGAs Jilly Bean is a pure 100% Sativa because that's what the people at the dispensery told him. He didn't want to hear about pure Thai or Columbian real "NLD". Try telling them that not a single shop in the entire state of Colorado sells anything close to a real tropical Sativa and they most likely have never smoked one in their entire hybrid consuming lives. It is most likely true but they will take offense to say the least.

Another person came back from a Colorado trip and brought some herbs home. One was Blue Dream and everybody is marketing it as a "pure Sativa". The fucktard at the shop told her blueberry and super silver haze are 100% pure Sativa and there was zero I could do to say otherwise. If I try to explain Blueberry is Mexican/Thai crossed to an afghan then inbred they get so fucking pissed like you just kicked their dog in the face.

They get straight up so mad smoking with them lost the flavor. That's just trying to explain the difference between hybrid and the landrace that built them. I will never talk cannabis genetics with people like that ever again period. It's not worth the stress. Try telling one of these assholes that Sativa and Indica don't even exist "FIGHTING WORDS" and everybody around will think you are the uneducated jackass. Shit like that ruins the vibe. Not worth the trouble.

Truth is that the terms are the fault of Sams, Nevil, and the rest. Now you are trying to kill what you helped create and blaming it on the people you taught. Should of been more scientific from the start. But you just gave descriptions that helped you sell seed. Education was not a goal. And truth be told no one selling seeds back then was a scientist. You didn't know the difference either.

Go to IG and search for #sativa then search for #NLD and see what happens. Almost zero of the NLD hashtag will have anything to do with cannabis whatsoever. Pretty much 100% of the Sativa hashtag will have everything to do with cannabis.

It reminds me of when people in their 40s change their name yet get pissed people still call them by the same name they used to describe said person for DECADES. But now it's everyone else's fault but their own.

I miss saying strain without feeling self conscious. It's just what I like to call cultivars

This post should make it obvious that Sam S is attempting to correct a situation he helped create. At least he is ttying to get the word out.

It's also not like NLD & WLD & NLH & WLH are not new termfor describing cannabis. Matter of fact those terms have been in use for a long ttime. R.C.C.s book Marijuana Botany is littered with those terms. And remember... books take time to write and publish so those terms have been in use since the 1970's at the latest and more than likely those particular terms were used far antecedent to then.

Also...
Sativa is a term used throughout the botanical world & really has zero to do with cannabis. SATIVA has a very specific meaning on its own.
INDICA just denotes where a particular variety was found and means nothing more.

Language is very important for the sake of clarity.

 

[Shmavis]

...Taxonomy is a personal thing aka is an objective view. It's how you like to group things so you can understand them better.

I'll give you an example ( from Shulgin's book, if you havent read it ). A famous biologist went to the jungle and he met a native there, the native showed him two plants that looked EXACTLY the same, but the native knew only by the region that the plants grew that one plant was producing DMT ( dimethyltriptamine ) and the other wasn't. The western biologist for all he knew he couldn't tell the difference and he would classify them as exactly the same plant but for the shaman it was a completely different plant since one would produce psychoactive compounds and the other didn't. The shaman would classify the plant with the DMT under a different category ( acacia plant ) just like you do with the drug and non drug varieties...

l33t, this is an important point you've made and it extends beyond the confines of biologists to include all of us as Beings-in-the-world with a language.

Quine's "Indeterminacy of translation" also speaks to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indeterminacy_of_translation

And yeah, such jargon is best used with others in the know. The common folk (or as Hume would say, the vulgar), will see such as just that — jargon for which they have no basis of reference.

 

[kopite]

well then you obviously know what you are doing ( scientist ) and you will win everytime by using different terminology. The only problem will be no effective communication. But the excellent chess player will have better understanding of science even if he uses wrong terminology. He will be able to reproduce results ( win again and again ). Compared to the other player where he knows all the names for the rules and pieces but he is a crap player.

If you get caught up with knowing the names better than playing the games, you are missing the point.

Correct terminology is good not only when talking science but in general. It's called effective communication. It applies to science as it applies to anything that is written or spoken.

I use strain as it is defined in the cambridge dictionary :
Thesaurus

strain noun (TYPE)

› [C] a ​particular ​type or ​quality: A strain of ​puritanism ​runs through all her ​work.
› [C] an ​animal or ​plant from a ​particular ​group whose ​characteristics are different in some way from ​others of the same ​group: Scientists have ​discovered a new strain of the ​virus which is much more ​dangerous.

Maybe thats why you capitilize Strain ? It would be wrong to capitalize it in any way no ?

In horticulture/botany strain is not used it has no status but does in biology, I think the only time it would be used would be used would be with gmos like rice...

 

[Weird]

it is a difference in nomenclature, both are correct when being used by the correct person(s)

the correct nomenclature for scientists, botanists, horticulturalists and their ilk is cultivar.

the correct nomenclature for hobbyists, neophytes and even experienced gardeners is strain.

They are both valid when used in the correct relative context.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/nomenclature

 

[MJPassion]

Trying to get people to say 'revolving transportation disc' instead of 'wheel' is indeed not trying to reinvent the wheel, you're correct. It is, however, rather silly and pedantic in my opinion.

What a foolish post...
Not all wheels are "revolving transportation disks"!

See the problem yet?

 

[Brelva]

What a foolish post...
Not all wheels are "revolving transportation disks"!

See the problem yet?

Exactly, but all wheels are wheels. I realize this may sound foolish but i'm trying to illustrate how ludicrous it is to change the letters of a term without changing the definition. Language is a set of symbols and sounds that are agreed upon to have certain meanings when combined in certain ways, no more, no less. We have already agreed upon the meanings of the terms 'strain', 'indica' and 'sativa' regardless of their 'true definitions' so trying to exchange the combinations of letters in those terms for other ones that lead to the same definitions accomplishes nothing.

 

[Skinny Leaf]

Can't we start with there, their and they're first and work our way up to the big words.

It sure seems like trying to get folks to use cultivar, variety, NLD and WLD is a bigger hurdle than getting Cannabis Sativa L. decriminalized/legalized.

I kinda like the word "weed" it is all encompassing.

 

[Manivelle]

just for extra information
sativa was used for "domesticated plants" .
fist time a cannabis plants was described as indica was by a french naturalist mr Sonnerat in 1781.
here is the plant .
https://youtu.be/sxUIPdnAReQ
[youtubeif]https://youtu.be/sxUIPdnAReQ[/youtubeif]

 

[MJPassion]

Exactly, but all wheels are wheels. I realize this may sound foolish but i'm trying to illustrate how ludicrous it is to change the letters of a term without changing the definition. Language is a set of symbols and sounds that are agreed upon to have certain meanings when combined in certain ways, no more, no less. We have already agreed upon the meanings of the terms 'strain', 'indica' and 'sativa' regardless of their 'true definitions' so trying to exchange the combinations of letters in those terms for other ones that lead to the same definitions accomplishes nothing.

It actually accomplishes correctness & clarity in language while promoting the use of slang terms promotes a convoluted language.

If we are all speaking the same language we don't have to ask as many questions to reach a point of absolute clarity in a particular message.

 

[EsterEssence]

Wow, seems old dogs don't want to learn new tricks. I am excited about the new findings, i personally am loving the research and new/ correct nomenclature. I am a old guy and want to learn all i can about the cannabis plant...

 

[Brelva]

It actually accomplishes correctness & clarity in language while promoting the use of slang terms promotes a convoluted language.

If we are all speaking the same language we don't have to ask as many questions to reach a point of absolute clarity in a particular message.

There already is clarity. When you say indica, people know what you mean. When you say strain, people know what you mean. Changing those terms to broad leaf drug variety and cultivar doesn't actually do anything.

 

[shishkaboy]

What about genotype vs phenotype?

 

[Genghis Kush]

.

 

[Thcvhunter]

Sometimes I feel like this OP tries to start arguments in his threads. Anyone else feel the same way?
Any comments get deleted by the OP yet?

Maybe I should start here???LOL..
I can assure you my intention was clarity, all of the recent DNA work has basically shown that Karl Hilligs work was correct, he first suggested NLD, WLD, NLH, WLH, as a way to separate Cannabis into different related families better then Sativa or Indica, Rob Clarke and Mark Merlin just agree with his work, genes do not lie....
-SamS

 

[Skinny Leaf]

What about genotype vs phenotype?

Might want to throw chemotype in the mix also.

 

[Weird]

might?

 

[merc500]

it's all "hell weed" to me Sam .you did lose me there with the indica /sativa WLD NLD explanation