"STRAINS" or Varieties and Cultivars?

[Sam_Skunkman]

We need to stop calling Cannabis Varieties or Cultivars, STRAINS, they are not STRAINS. Strains are Bacteria or Viruses. Use Cultivar for a Cannabis clone and Variety for Cannabis seeds. IC should be a light guiding the way.
While I am at it maybe stop using Sativa and Indica incorrectly.
All drug varieties are Indica either WLD or NLD, Wide Leaf Drug or Narrow Leaf Drug.
All Sativas are hemp, either WLH or NLH, Wide Leaf Hemp or Narrow Leaf Hemp.
-SamS

 

[nay420]

Thanks, I have been trying to follow along with hash church and the current lingo, but the difference between cultivar for clone and variety for seed is the clarification I needed.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

It is not quite as simple as I say, but say Cultivar for a clone and Variety for a seed line and you will be right most of the time.
-SamS

 

[l33t]

We need to stop calling Cannabis Varieties or Cultivars, STRAINS, they are not STRAINS. Strains are Bacteria or Viruses. Use Cultivar for a Cannabis clone and Variety for Cannabis seeds. IC should be a light guiding the way.
While I am at it maybe stop using Sativa and Indica incorrectly.
All drug varieties are Indica either WLD or NLD, Wide Leaf Drug or Narrow Leaf Drug.
All Sativas are hemp, either WLH or NLH, Wide Leaf Hemp or Narrow Leaf Hemp.
-SamS

It's funny how biologists/taxinomists get caught up with taxinomy/classification. Anyone that tries to classify living things he is bound to make errors cause grouping is just human nature for better understanding. It's the human nature that tries to organize things in a matter that we understand but really taxinomy for living things is one of the most stupid things you can do, it will probably limit you more than help you.

Taxonomy is a personal thing aka is an objective view. It's how you like to group things so you can understand them better.

I'll give you an example ( from Shulgin's book, if you havent read it ). A famous biologist went to the jungle and he met a native there, the native showed him two plants that looked EXACTLY the same, but the native knew only by the region that the plants grew that one plant was producing DMT ( dimethyltriptamine ) and the other wasn't. The western biologist for all he knew he couldn't tell the difference and he would classify them as exactly the same plant but for the shaman it was a completely different plant since one would produce psychoactive compounds and the other didn't. The shaman would classify the plant with the DMT under a different category ( acacia plant ) just like you do with the drug and non drug varieties...

Yes I understand that modern biologists classify things when they can reproduce . EG wolf and dog are the same because they can produce offspring but there are numerous examples that this rule breaks and in fact for any taxonomy/classification you do I can show examples that your taxonomy rules are wrong.

It's the same with indica sativa strain subspiece variety cultivar don't get caught *too much/9with the terminology. Of course for science to progress we need proper terminology but people that get caught up in the terminology and taxonomy are loosing the bigger picture which is that you CANT use absolute classification and absolute terminology.

Just because there is no official acknowledgement for the word strain in plant biology doesn't mean we can't use it. It has it's place.... you disagree ? Can you understand what the word STRAIN means ??? it means LIMIT which would fit like a globe.

Using Variety for a seedline would be way more wrong IMHO that using the name strain.

"The term is defined in different ways by different authors.[2] A variety will have an appearance distinct from other varieties, but will hybridize freely with those other varieties (if brought into contact).[citation needed] Usually varieties will be geographically separate from each other.[citation needed] " ( from wiki ) "

So you are saying that your skunk is a variety, super skunk is another variety, skunk haze is another variety? what about sk f2/f3s ???? Seriously ?? Right.... "A variety will have an appearance distinct from other varieties," Who is to say this is dinstict ? for my mom the sk , skxhz and skxagh wouldn't look dinstict, to me they would be worlds apart. Do you understand dinstict is an objective word ? Do you understand what variation means ? It means it varies aka it's different. No plants are always the same even clones would have different epigenetics. So even clones are varieties.

Please don't get caught up with the terminology/taxinomy.... Smart people spend time understanding practical things and not try to force certain ways of thinking. It's funny how most scientists, originally very open people they become the most closed minded people.

If you insist to use the terminology you think is right you will have a hard time understanding normal people here in the forums but you will look serious in a science forum... and to be honest I kinda doubt that... depends what you want ... For me I chose my wordings according to the person Im talking to so I achieve the best communication.

Even indica and sativa are bullshit. What about all the transition plants ??? Indica and sativa are just EXTREMES. Lets say cannabis started thin leaved and after centuries of acclimatization it became the wide leaf. During this evolution plants that looked half indica half sativa escaped and found a place that was perfect for them so they stayed half indica half saitva. Where do these plants belong ? sativa ? indica ? Which subspiece ? For me taxonomy/classification has it's place but I never get caught up with terms.... for me it's all about practice and results that can be reproduced again and again ( science ) . What about the plants that are inbetween hemp and pure sativa ?

"All drug varieties are Indica either WLD or NLD, Wide Leaf Drug or Narrow Leaf Drug.
All Sativas are hemp, either WLH or NLH, Wide Leaf Hemp or Narrow Leaf Hemp."

This is BS. My classification system is much better and accurate that this nonsense. If some american/british/dutch/isreali guys want to name/classify them like this please be my guest and classify them as you like. But don't believe for a second that we are gonna share the same classification system or that your system is any way better than other systems. Or that your science is better than my science, cause for one what you are talking about is far from science.

And say cultivar for any clone ... really ? " A cultivar[nb 1] is a plant or grouping of plants selected for desirable characteristics that can be maintained by propagation." You understand propagation could be planting seeds too........right? . And if you clone only for future proofing without knowing if it has desireble characteristics ? We can't call a plant a cultivar until we say we chose it for desirable characteristics ? So is it a variety or a cultivar ? I think you are more confused than most people in here.... And please tell me one more plant that biologists will classify according to drug content and not morphological characteristics or offspring realization ... Why cannabis is an exception here ??

"The origin of the term "cultivar" arises from the need to distinguish between wild plants and those with characteristics that have arisen in cultivation (what we now call cultigens). This distinction dates back to the Greek philosopher Theophrastus (370–285 BCE), the "Father of Botany", who was keenly aware of this difference."

Cultivars have nothing to do purely with clones.


Cheers
l33t

 

[Terps]

I don't like using the word "drug" in association with cannabis so i'll stick to indica and sativa thanks.

 

[Max Headroom]

i perfer cultivar because it is used everywhere else. for me it implies that the plant is cultivated and could not survive without human intervention (and remain the same).
(like apple cultivars would be impossible without humans preventing the further re-combination of DNA via the natural process)

but i agree, taxonomists are seriously overdoing it. when i read a wiki entry about a plant, there are usually endless descriptions of what the different parts look like and comparably little about what the plant actually does and how it works.


regarding WLD & NLD: what about cultivars that start out with wide leafs and then turn out narrow leaves later?

 

[Weird]

two threads for the same topic, is OP aware of this?

 

[Eletrile DeMaid]

Oh, great. The people who run this site are grammar nazis. The latest research shows that such people are introverts with mental problems. The reality is that language evolves. Get over it already. Time for a tolerance break, Sammy? Or lay off the caffeine?

 

[EastCoast710]

ill stick to strain. its easier. and more people know about it. if I say cultivar.. retards will think I'm talking about growers lool

 

[ZIO GREEN]

It's like when people call cannabis marijuana,common but wrong.....

 

[Imsostonedagain]

Why such disrespect guys? Sam is a very respected member of the cannabis community. Im certain he knows that he isnt going to get everyone in the world to change the terms they use in regards to cannabis. But if a few people start using the correct terminology, its possible that the correct usage will expand just from being heard by others. There was no reason to lambast him for this thread. As a community, we need to treat each other a little better than that. We are all here for the love of a plant. Please remember that. We can disagree about things but we should keep it civil and remember that until cannabis is legal world wide, we are all in this together.

 

[Bob Green]

Day late and a dollar short

Day late and a dollar short

Indica, and Sativa are terms that will never go away. Neither will the concepts behind them.

I have given up trying to explain anything about cannabis genetics to anyone in the outside world. Last night someone was insisting the TGAs Jilly Bean is a pure 100% Sativa because that's what the people at the dispensery told him. He didn't want to hear about pure Thai or Columbian real "NLD". Try telling them that not a single shop in the entire state of Colorado sells anything close to a real tropical Sativa and they most likely have never smoked one in their entire hybrid consuming lives. It is most likely true but they will take offense to say the least.

Another person came back from a Colorado trip and brought some herbs home. One was Blue Dream and everybody is marketing it as a "pure Sativa". The fucktard at the shop told her blueberry and super silver haze are 100% pure Sativa and there was zero I could do to say otherwise. If I try to explain Blueberry is Mexican/Thai crossed to an afghan then inbred they get so fucking pissed like you just kicked their dog in the face.

They get straight up so mad smoking with them lost the flavor. That's just trying to explain the difference between hybrid and the landrace that built them. I will never talk cannabis genetics with people like that ever again period. It's not worth the stress. Try telling one of these assholes that Sativa and Indica don't even exist "FIGHTING WORDS" and everybody around will think you are the uneducated jackass. Shit like that ruins the vibe. Not worth the trouble.

Truth is that the terms are the fault of Sams, Nevil, and the rest. Now you are trying to kill what you helped create and blaming it on the people you taught. Should of been more scientific from the start. But you just gave descriptions that helped you sell seed. Education was not a goal. And truth be told no one selling seeds back then was a scientist. You didn't know the difference either.

Go to IG and search for #sativa then search for #NLD and see what happens. Almost zero of the NLD hashtag will have anything to do with cannabis whatsoever. Pretty much 100% of the Sativa hashtag will have everything to do with cannabis.

It reminds me of when people in their 40s change their name yet get pissed people still call them by the same name they used to describe said person for DECADES. But now it's everyone else's fault but their own.

I miss saying strain without feeling self conscious. It's just what I like to call cultivars

 

[Genghis Kush]

People seem to be missing the point.

Sam is talking about scientific accuracy.

If ICmags purpose is education than its integrity is strengthened by the level of accuracy that is achieved.

 

[bombadil.360]

Oh wow... if it were up to me, I'd be weeding out all the stunts from the forums, maybe that way each time someone tries to teach us more science, we could actually learn instead of having to suffer the fools who resist being corrected at all costs.

Willful ignorance is not cool, dude lol

 

[Al Botross]

.

 

[l33t]

People seem to be missing the point.

Sam is talking about scientific accuracy.

If ICmags purpose is education than its integrity is strengthened by the level of accuracy that is achieved.

Unfortunately, you are the one who is missing the point. Sam is talking anything but science. Its one more personal wrong taxonomy/classification that couple of people who share interests tend to agree on and he uses wrong terminology too. Anything but science.

 

[Brelva]

This reminds me of the whole initiative of: 'indica and sativa are wrong, they are narrow leaf drug varieties and broad leaf drug varieties'.

We already have accepted terms for these things, what exactly does making these terms longer accomplish?

It would be as pointless and contrived as trying to get people to say 'has a high degree of heat' instead of 'hot'. They both mean the same thing, one is just more cumbersome to say.

Well that's my thoughts anyways.

 

[bombadil.360]

Unfortunately, you are the one who is missing the point. Sam is talking anything but science. Its one more personal wrong taxonomy/classification that couple of people who share interests tend to agree on and he uses wrong terminology too. Anything but science.

Sure, this specific subject is not science, but it is in fact about how to use proper terminology when talking science.

It is not wrong either; and accurate language is very important to communicate effectively and efficiently.

If you can't understand why using the word Strain today for Plants is not proper, don't be surprised that people stop taking what you say seriously...

Think of it this way: lets say you are an excellent chess player, and you misname the pieces on the board.

 

[MJPassion]

Oh, great. The people who run this site are grammar nazis. The latest research shows that such people are introverts with mental problems. The reality is that language evolves. Get over it already. Time for a tolerance break, Sammy? Or lay off the caffeine?

Language evolvs because people use terms OUTSIDE of their definitions.
Doesn't make the slang terms correct at all & in fact...
It convolutes our language even further, making it more difficult for folks that are trying to learn the language to properly do so.

We define words for the sake of clarity in language. To make it easier for us to fully understand one another.

To rely on slang language and expect others to understand your speech is a fools game.

Learn tge language, speak the language.
We're not trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[corky1968]