Storage of Shatter-Wax-Oil etc

[Hash Zeppelin]

weird I believe that fully purged BHO is indeed not sticky. This is what some refer to as "stable". I don't know why the pure oil would be liquid, but I bet if you left our your liquidy oil it would eventually harden, but you probably haven't ever let any dry out enough, what with producing ounces of if every week... Try not making such big batches and you wouldn't end up with watery oil.

So to recap, shatter, aka butane-free extract, should be solid and not sticky. If you leave it to dry in a thin enough layer, vacuuming and heat are not even needed, although I employ both because I don't want to leave it in the pan for a month. In this form, the hash should be able to store well for over a year with little to no degradation, in my experience.

I didnt make that batch of winterized, and oops I did say week didnt i. I meant month. I make about an ounce a month. anyways did you read the text for pictorial or do you just like looking at pictures and talking shit? did you even see me turn bad oil into good oil in less than an hour to prove my point?

Also if you dont think you can make big batches and get pure oil then you are not doing it right. You can make a huge batch you just have to have a bigger surface area to keep your layer thin.

Im just fuggin with you, no worries

 

[ghostmade]

nice hz im tag alon for the convo

 

[Kush Technician]

nah I meant it is weird that further purification for lack of a better term is making the extract liquidy again, as if it somehow absorbed water from the atmosphere as a result of the "winterization" process, probably from the freezer, no? Thinking maybe the cooling and then bringing back to room temperature can trap moisture in the extract. I don't know, I can't see any other reason for why the pure oil is a liquid.

I have seen alot of oil that was liquid like that, but it was always clearly an emulsion of bho and water, as it was opaque.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^oh lol, I misread. During that process, I did a dab of oil from every one of those pictures.

they do the winterization with an ethanol bath to remove the waxes. the waxes are the only thing giving it rigidity. oil is liquid. I can winterize, i know the process, but chose not to do it because it is not worth the trouble for me.

 

[Kush Technician]

ahh right ethanol, so in that case there probably is water in there, since ethanol can only be purified to 96% by volume, leaving 4% water. I wonder if it would solidify if treated in the same process as you describe turning improper "shatter" into real shatter.

Now to build a still because I cant get the good everclear in my state.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^if i leave the lid off it solidifies a bit more.

Also be safe. Dont blow yourself up. (if that is even possible) I have never made moonshine.

 

[lloyd_christmas]

How long have you had your vac set up, hash zeppelin? It didn't take long for me to figure out how to make proper shatter once I got one. I agree most oil you see is discusting and underpurged like the stuff you posted.

 

[Infinitesimal]

also virtually no one uses pure n-butane unless you have real good friends I guess... contaminants is what the worst part is... as butane has no smell taste or known medical risks for the inhalation of raw or burnt butane

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

How long have you had your vac set up, hash zeppelin? It didn't take long for me to figure out how to make proper shatter once I got one. I agree most oil you see is discusting and underpurged like the stuff you posted.

I dont use a vacuum system. you dont need it. You just need a hot plate at 250 degrees. one trick is keeping the layer super thin. the other trick is to have all your tubes pre packed and to not let the butane evaporate much while you are switching tubes. this keeps butane from binding and keeps an even consistency. Also it helps to be in a very low humidity area because my tubes dont get jammed up with ice from the moisture in the air freezing. I hear that is an issue in some places. humidity here in the high desert is 7-20 percent

also virtually no one uses pure n-butane unless you have real good friends I guess... contaminants is what the worst part is... as butane has no smell taste or known medical risks for the inhalation of raw or burnt butane

I have that friend. I get it whole sale, and trade him oil for the uber pure butane. Very worth it. The cheap butane comes from the factories in china. the good shit comes from south korea...... so i'm told. Also when properly purged there will be no butane. its boiling point is 30.2°F (-1°C), that means it evaporates at that temp. When you put it on a 250 hot plate in a thin layer for 30 minutes or about 5 minutes after there is no bubbles then it is all gone in to gas.

I have no idea how you get the contaminates out of shit butane. that stuff is gross. alot of the bad glass i was talking about is made with bad butane, and when that is the case there is no fixing it as far as I know. That would be a question for graywolf the master of oils.

 

[huligun]

run away thread

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

ahh right ethanol, so in that case there probably is water in there, since ethanol can only be purified to 96% by volume, leaving 4% water. I wonder if it would solidify if treated in the same process as you describe turning improper "shatter" into real shatter.

Now to build a still because I cant get the good everclear in my state.

another process used involves hexane, but I have never tried it.

I would also like to add that I have made very tasty stinky wax, I still prefer to only consume absolute shatters, single solvent extracts that have waxed up reek havoc on my lungs making it feel like they are coated in glue.

So i turned some of that budder into oil or shatter and did a side by side comparison. My budder is pretty smooth, and I didnt cough, but i must admit the oil state was much smoother and I could take a bigger hit. The budder high is headier for sure, but the same stuff turned into oil has an extremely strong body high and my arms feel like electric jello.

 

[midwestHIGHS]

^oh lol, I misread. During that process, I did a dab of oil from every one of those pictures.

they do the winterization with an ethanol bath to remove the waxes. the waxes are the only thing giving it rigidity. oil is liquid. I can winterize, i know the process, but chose not to do it because it is not worth the trouble for me.

A winterized bho aka Absolute amber you posted looks like my fully activated absolute for oral consumption. Fully decarboxylated oil will be sticky and have viscosity that one would could compare to cold syrup.

Winterized bho aka absolute amber having the waxes removed doesn't make it less hard, if anything it makes it more stable and glassy then the original raw bho if it was extracted from fresh material. The waxes actually give it more plasticity than if they weren't present. Waxes are soft and great for skin applications because its similar to beeswax, but good in our lungs not so much.

For me it's very worth the extra step, the plant waxes are not able to be processed in our lungs like the cannabinoids and terpenes, so they either build up or are expectorated out, and they are not easily expectorated out. Raw bho and other single solvent extracts that have not been winterized to remove these contaminates make it feel like my lungs are coated and sticky after a session causing me to become very short of breath. This feeling does not go away unless I stop dabbing raw bho, to be honest I feel like after dabbing around a .5 to gram of raw bho everyday for year or so my lungs have decreased in lung capacity. Absolute amber (winterized bho) on the other hand does not effect my lungs the same way as it is wholly just cannabinoids and terpenes with the plant waxes, lipids and fats removed, it acts as great expectorant and provides more of a wet cough to help clean out the lungs compared to raw bho which provides a dry cough, followed by shortness of breath. This is why I only dab absolutes and fullmelts anymore, if I do consume a raw bho, it was to have very low wax content, which is achieved by utilizing extremely cold temperatures during your extraction to avoid picking these contaminates up.

Here is budder. you can see in the upper right corner a piece that is darker and shiny. It is not purged right. The other stuff is purged just right. Literally 10 less seconds on heat and would not be properly purged, 10 more seconds on heat and it would have started to go to the oil state. In full oil state which is what we can refer to as shatter as long as you know that is real shatter and what I started with in the first picture is not real shatter just because it shatters.

That budder still has a lot of butane and moisture trapped within, which is obvious from the reaction in the following pictures, I wouldn't call that purged just right. To get budder/wax to melt down to continue purging like you did requires high heat and in addition will lose more terpenes and will slightly decarboxlyate, it's better to just keep it from waxing up all together. This was what I was getting at, proper purging techniques will keep your oil from waxing up and will continue to purge and release solvent.

I'm a little confused, I guess I'm just trying to understand why you said

oh by the way if it is shatter, it is not fully purged. there is a lot of butane in there still. shatter looks cool but is not purged right.

Then you post a picture of wax/budder that is clearly still full of solvent and moisture, and then continue to properly purge that into clear translucent oil "shatter"?

Just a friendly debate! no hard feelings

Have a good one!

 

[midwestHIGHS]

ahh right ethanol, so in that case there probably is water in there, since ethanol can only be purified to 96% by volume, leaving 4% water. I wonder if it would solidify if treated in the same process as you describe turning improper "shatter" into real shatter.

Now to build a still because I cant get the good everclear in my state.

the 95%-96% ethanol 5%-4% water azeotrope evaporate as one with a boiling point slightly lower than that of pure ethanol.

you can get everclear and other 190 proof alcohols offline.

 

[pip313]

Ah ya, I would say the complete opposite, who ever told this has no idea what they're talking about.

Properly purged bho under deep vacuum, constant heat and in as thin as film as possibly always yields shatter/sap. Improper purging like whipping, blasting into water, thick film purging under vacuum with inconsistent temperatures, purging under vacuum with not enough heat. Usually yields opaqe wax/budder/honeycomb.

Uh no.

My oil method:
Extract with hexane then strip solvent
Dewax with ethanol strip solvent
Heat to 160c

I get high quality red oil every time no waxes no solvents left and my stuff has never shattered. 160 c is double my solvents bp an only 15 under thc's bp.

Sometimes I wonder if shatter is partly oxidized or polymerized oil. Spread thin heat for a long time. Sounds like either

 

[midwestHIGHS]

http://skunkpharmresearch.com/cannabinoid-info/

9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) Boiling point: 157*C / 314.6 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic

Ya when you purge at temperatures of 160C your oil is beyond fully decarboxylated and a large amount of activated thc has degraded into cbn as well as boiled off some thc, you would never get hard oil purging at crazy high temperatures like that. I don't even decarboxylate to activate my oil for oral use at temperatures that high.

Oil made from fresh or freshly dried material and properly purged at temperatures of around 115-140F under -29.9hg of vacuum in as thin as film as possible almost always yields hard brittle translucent oil "shatter", if the material extracted is old and partially decarboxlyated it will yields a more sappy consistency.

My point in that post was that proper purging techniques yield a clear translucent extract ranging from sap to hard brittle shatter, and that many improper techniques yield the opaque wax, budder, honeycomb. I also was speaking in terms of raw bho, not a hexane extraction cleaned up with ethanol and purged at way to high of temperatures, may I ask why you thought your process was similar to what I had said produces shatter?

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

A winterized bho aka Absolute amber you posted looks like my fully activated absolute for oral consumption. Fully decarboxylated oil will be sticky and have viscosity that one would could compare to cold syrup.

Winterized bho aka absolute amber having the waxes removed doesn't make it less hard, if anything it makes it more stable and glassy then the original raw bho if it was extracted from fresh material. The waxes actually give it more plasticity than if they weren't present. Waxes are soft and great for skin applications because its similar to beeswax, but good in our lungs not so much.

For me it's very worth the extra step, the plant waxes are not able to be processed in our lungs like the cannabinoids and terpenes, so they either build up or are expectorated out, and they are not easily expectorated out. Raw bho and other single solvent extracts that have not been winterized to remove these contaminates make it feel like my lungs are coated and sticky after a session causing me to become very short of breath. This feeling does not go away unless I stop dabbing raw bho, to be honest I feel like after dabbing around a .5 to gram of raw bho everyday for year or so my lungs have decreased in lung capacity. Absolute amber (winterized bho) on the other hand does not effect my lungs the same way as it is wholly just cannabinoids and terpenes with the plant waxes, lipids and fats removed, it acts as great expectorant and provides more of a wet cough to help clean out the lungs compared to raw bho which provides a dry cough, followed by shortness of breath. This is why I only dab absolutes and fullmelts anymore, if I do consume a raw bho, it was to have very low wax content, which is achieved by utilizing extremely cold temperatures during your extraction to avoid picking these contaminates up.



That budder still has a lot of butane and moisture trapped within, which is obvious from the reaction in the following pictures, I wouldn't call that purged just right. To get budder/wax to melt down to continue purging like you did requires high heat and in addition will lose more terpenes and will slightly decarboxlyate, it's better to just keep it from waxing up all together. This was what I was getting at, proper purging techniques will keep your oil from waxing up and will continue to purge and release solvent.

I'm a little confused, I guess I'm just trying to understand why you said
Then you post a picture of wax/budder that is clearly still full of solvent and moisture, and then continue to properly purge that into clear translucent oil "shatter"?

Just a friendly debate! no hard feelings

Have a good one!

Ya i was just getting mixed up it turns out. too many dabs to talk about the chemistry of dabs. lol

 

[midwestHIGHS]

lol, no worries man! All in good fun, I've always thought your avatar and name you chose were dope!

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

http://skunkpharmresearch.com/cannabinoid-info/

9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) Boiling point: 157*C / 314.6 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic

Ya when you purge at temperatures of 160C your oil is beyond fully decarboxylated and a large amount of activated thc has degraded into cbn as well as boiled off some thc, you would never get hard oil purging at crazy high temperatures like that. I don't even decarboxylate to activate my oil for oral use at temperatures that high.

Oil made from fresh or freshly dried material and properly purged at temperatures of around 115-140F under -29.9hg of vacuum in as thin as film as possible almost always yields hard brittle translucent oil "shatter", if the material extracted is old and partially decarboxlyated it will yields a more sappy consistency.

My point in that post was that proper purging techniques yield a clear translucent extract ranging from sap to hard brittle shatter, and that many improper techniques yield the opaque wax, budder, honeycomb. I also was speaking in terms of raw bho, not a hexane extraction cleaned up with ethanol and purged at way to high of temperatures, may I ask why you thought your process was similar to what I had said produces shatter?

that explains it then. That is why get sap vs shatter. Thank you for the clarity.

My only question is how are waxes taken with butane. butane is a non polar solvent, and the act of running butane extraction is mostly mechanical more than chemical. The only way to get waxes is harsh agitation like bubble hash. Also even if there as waxes inst the filter to fine for the waxes to come through? I'm a bit confused still I guess.

 

[midwestHIGHS]

Mechanically extracted resins, are ice water hash, dry sift, charas, etc. The trichome heads are being removed by mechanical means and concentrated not dissolved.

Butane extraction is a chemical solvent extraction, the resins are being dissolved along with plant waxes, lipids and fats with the nonpolar solvent. An initial polar extraction such as QWET on plant material, picks up a smaller amount of plant, waxes, lipids and fats, but picks up larger amount of chlorophyll, plant sugars. Its why I love absolutes so much, extract with a non polar solvent to avoid the chlorophyll and sugars, clean up with a polar solvent to remove the waxes, lipids and fats picked up by the non polar solvent, leaving pretty much just cannabinoids, flavonoids and terpenes.

Well these wax, lipids and fats are mostly non polar, but are also slightly polar. So they are dissolved along with resins from the cuticle of trichome head as well as the leaf cuticle. The filter does not stop them when they are dissolved in a solvent along with the resins, the only sure way to remove them is to dissolve your single solvent extract in a polar solvent like ethanol then place in the freezer for 48hrs at 0F which cause them to precipitate out of the solution and then be filtered out.

Proper mechanically extracted hash, (full melt) would be considered almost pure trichome heads and the waxy cuticule that protects the resins with in, stays in its natural state, and our lungs seem to process it differently then whats been dissolved by solvent and purged of that solvent. When I vaporize flower or fullmelt my lungs never feel like they do when I dab raw bho. I could honestly vaporize winterized absolutes, fullmelt and flower for many years to come with no doubt of keeping my lungs healthy, If I continued to dab raw bho everyday for years to come I'd probably be on oxygen in the future.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

ok this is very interesting thankyou for explaining the details. You have basically brought back to what I knew after reading grey wolf's thread, but I have a botanist in one ear and a lawyer in the other both telling me different things but both make excellent oils. What I needed was the actual real chemical explanation and clarification on terms. Also I needed it to be non-biased. Also for the record the lawyer was more correct than the botanist because he studies the grey wolf technique.

After some further personal reading too I went ahead and turned my budder into the sap state of oils. the sugar trim i was using had been curing about a month.