Stoned thought about politics!!!

[Cannavore]

Enlightened people realize that power is best left in the hands of the people. It breaks my heart to see my generation embracing the evils of government control and socialism, people won't realize what freedoms we had until they are all gone

but socialism empowers the people lol.


no gods no masters

 

[slaveplanet]

Seriously .....I think that the whole right/left thing is a game to keep the people divided by those that really have control.

problem is that there is a level above the obvious left/right view that is not seen as ideology or indoctrination or drill etc. but as natural or normal that does not have to be questioned. automatized thoughts and beliefs, thoughts that are seen as objective or true but are only seen as true and objective because they have been told to us so many times and we have to see the world how it is taught to us.

the vast majority of people (me included with the difference that i am a bit further in some thoughts and a bit more open-minded to explore in a certain direction) who believe they are critical or have a different opinion on subjects or think they have found the truth do not know that precisely the "new" thought they have or maybe have found on the internet is already an indoctrinated view.

a good example is the idea of work or labour as a natural and completely normal condition of human existence, even used to define people as "good" or "worthy" etc. even going so far as to destroy ones own body and mind to fulfill the requirement of "culture" "state", "nation", "corporation", "nature", "self-fulfillment", "progress" etc.
work was once seen as something undesirable, over the course of centuries it has become so normal that people now can't believe that life has any other meaning than to work or to achieve or to produce etc.

that is pure indoctrination, ideology, dressage, training, drill etc. at work in it's perfect form, another nice example would be the notion that life is a struggle and a competition or even war, another one is that everything is scarce, another one is that money is normal and belongs to human societies naturally, another one is that humans have the right and even the duty to subdue nature or the earth and produce etc.

so what i want to say is that the majority of the now planetary population are so indoctrinated and automated and robotic that they can not see the constructs they have been told and are telling themselves.
the masters themselves believe their own lies they cant see the constructs anymore either.
in certain schools of psychology this is well known or for example adorno, fromm marcuse etc. analysed this in depth in a certain direction with very interesting conclusions.
a psychologist once said to me that we are governed by an anti-social sadistical over ego... there certainly is some kind of truth in that.

 

[Cannavore]

americans are intellectually lazy and want information spoon fed to them. problem is the spoon is made of lead and it has poisoned their minds.

 

[soundman]

Flipping through the Sunday morning news programs I find myself pondering what can you really believe anymore? If you're on the right you watch Fox and read Breitbart or Washington Times, if you're more left you have pretty much all the other media outlets in your camp. I try to read and watch a little bit of everything to balance things out, but this raises the question..... as a responsible citizen where can you even go to get accurate information anymore?

I know there are plenty of talented journalists out there but media is a business at the end of the day and their editors are pushing stories that fit storylines which bring them revenue and readers.

I am at home all day everyday. I only trust what I see for myself, like speeches, interviews etc. I then watch a couple media outlets to see who and how things are reported.

FOX is by far the most balanced source. If I had to trust just what the media tells me, editorials etc, I rarely get the whole truth.

You have to see and hear the source directly to know whats true anymore.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

problem is that there is a level above the obvious left/right view that is not seen as ideology or indoctrination or drill etc. but as natural or normal that does not have to be questioned. automatized thoughts and beliefs, thoughts that are seen as objective or true but are only seen as true and objective because they have been told to us so many times and we have to see the world how it is taught to us.

the vast majority of people (me included with the difference that i am a bit further in some thoughts and a bit more open-minded to explore in a certain direction) who believe they are critical or have a different opinion on subjects or think they have found the truth do not know that precisely the "new" thought they have or maybe have found on the internet is already an indoctrinated view.

a good example is the idea of work or labour as a natural and completely normal condition of human existence, even used to define people as "good" or "worthy" etc. even going so far as to destroy ones own body and mind to fulfill the requirement of "culture" "state", "nation", "corporation", "nature", "self-fulfillment", "progress" etc.
work was once seen as something undesirable, over the course of centuries it has become so normal that people now can't believe that life has any other meaning than to work or to achieve or to produce etc.

that is pure indoctrination, ideology, dressage, training, drill etc. at work in it's perfect form, another nice example would be the notion that life is a struggle and a competition or even war, another one is that everything is scarce, another one is that money is normal and belongs to human societies naturally, another one is that humans have the right and even the duty to subdue nature or the earth and produce etc.

so what i want to say is that the majority of the now planetary population are so indoctrinated and automated and robotic that they can not see the constructs they have been told and are telling themselves.
the masters themselves believe their own lies they cant see the constructs anymore either.
in certain schools of psychology this is well known or for example adorno, fromm marcuse etc. analysed this in depth in a certain direction with very interesting conclusions.
a psychologist once said to me that we are governed by an anti-social sadistical over ego... there certainly is some kind of truth in that.

Mostly I am self taught......I left a UK state school at 15, then traveled the world through 53 countries (so far), living and working in many of them...and had real life experiences that have formed my views, as I studied the world from many different angles.

I don't consider my self part of any 'establishment' or 'culture' or 'corporation' or any particular political persuasion.

What I am is a free thinking man.

 

[coldcanna]

problem is that there is a level above the obvious left/right view that is not seen as ideology or indoctrination or drill etc. but as natural or normal that does not have to be questioned. automatized thoughts and beliefs, thoughts that are seen as objective or true but are only seen as true and objective because they have been told to us so many times and we have to see the world how it is taught to us.

the vast majority of people (me included with the difference that i am a bit further in some thoughts and a bit more open-minded to explore in a certain direction) who believe they are critical or have a different opinion on subjects or think they have found the truth do not know that precisely the "new" thought they have or maybe have found on the internet is already an indoctrinated view.

a good example is the idea of work or labour as a natural and completely normal condition of human existence, even used to define people as "good" or "worthy" etc. even going so far as to destroy ones own body and mind to fulfill the requirement of "culture" "state", "nation", "corporation", "nature", "self-fulfillment", "progress" etc.
work was once seen as something undesirable, over the course of centuries it has become so normal that people now can't believe that life has any other meaning than to work or to achieve or to produce etc.

that is pure indoctrination, ideology, dressage, training, drill etc. at work in it's perfect form, another nice example would be the notion that life is a struggle and a competition or even war, another one is that everything is scarce, another one is that money is normal and belongs to human societies naturally, another one is that humans have the right and even the duty to subdue nature or the earth and produce etc.

so what i want to say is that the majority of the now planetary population are so indoctrinated and automated and robotic that they can not see the constructs they have been told and are telling themselves.
the masters themselves believe their own lies they cant see the constructs anymore either.
in certain schools of psychology this is well known or for example adorno, fromm marcuse etc. analysed this in depth in a certain direction with very interesting conclusions.
a psychologist once said to me that we are governed by an anti-social sadistical over ego... there certainly is some kind of truth in that.

I think "work" started when humans chose to settle out of hunter gathering. If you want to live in a functioning town of people, somebody has to be a farmer, somebody has to be a plumber, somebody has to enforce laws. The alternative to that would be living off the land I suppose like they did in the early days, but in 1800 the life expectancy was 38 years and now it's 78... somebody has to work all those hours to develop new medicine and procedures.

 

[coldcanna]

but socialism empowers the people lol.


no gods no masters

Please elaborate

 

[slaveplanet]

I think "work" started when humans chose to settle out of hunter gathering. If you want to live in a functioning town of people, somebody has to be a farmer, somebody has to be a plumber, somebody has to enforce laws. The alternative to that would be living off the land I suppose like they did in the early days, but in 1800 the life expectancy was 38 years and now it's 78... somebody has to work all those hours to develop new medicine and procedures.

this is a very good example how the automated mind works, the automated response...

i can't change "your" view in a few sentences over the internet especially not if what i say does not resonate with "your" thoughts and wihtout authority having the power to override "your" thoughts.

i could counter everything you said in your post but it would take too long and would be useless as is suspect.

but if you want to you can debunk all those "arguments" you use yourself a start would be to read the books i recommended in this thread, walk through life with an open mind and watch your own thoughts and responses.... yeah as if you would do that, just because i said it... yeah right

 

[coldcanna]

No please elaborate- how would you provide for your basic needs of food, water, shelter, medicine?

I'm not shutting you down, if there is an easier way to attain these things I would be the first person to join you

 

[slaveplanet]

...and had real life experiences that have formed my views, as I studied the world from many different angles.

I don't consider my self part of any 'establishment' or 'culture' or 'corporation' or any particular political persuasion.

What I am is a free thinking man.

interesting...

but you were raised in the u.k. and had a upbringing and had experiences before the age of 15 that have formed your personality in various ways, just like everybody else in this (deformed) world.

and the world you have seen is already the perverted construct that has arisen out of madness , underneath it is the truth.

beneath the pavement... the beach

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

interesting...

but you were raised in the u.k. and had a upbringing and had experiences before the age of 15 that have formed your personality in various ways, just like everybody else in this (deformed) world.

and the world you have seen is already the perverted construct that has arisen out of madness , underneath it is the truth.

beneath the pavement... the beach

I didn't grow up within any sort of family that you might consider 'normal' or 'run-of-the-mill'...

I was born in a caravan, and always traveled around a lot within the UK, and as I grew my sights were on going further abroad to make my own discoveries as to what I perceived this world was about.

You say the truth is beneath the pavement and the beach, so I assume that you have been a miner, and/or have lived a subterranean existence in the underworld where you found 'the truth'

Pray tell, what is this 'truth' that you speak of.

 

[slaveplanet]

I didn't grow up within any sort of family that you might consider 'normal' or 'run-of-the-mill'...

I was born in a caravan, and always traveled around a lot within the UK, and as I grew my sights were on going further abroad to make my own discoveries as to what I perceived this world was about.

You say the truth is beneath the pavement and the beach, so I assume that you have been a miner, and/or have lived a subterranean existence in the underworld where you found 'the truth'

Pray tell, what is this 'truth' that you speak of.

no, that was a misunderstanding... "beneath the pavement, the beach" was a slogan in france during the riots 1968.
beneath the pavement (oppression, ugliness, work, imprisonment, destruction etc. lies freedom, beneath the city (prison, culture) lies nature, freedom... maybe you could also say that underneath everyones artificial self there lies the true human...

but maybe you could also say that i have been a miner but not in the underworld but my mind and the minds of others and society, digging deeper into the hidden ideas, symbols, thoughts and digging deeper into history waking up to reality, yes ... waking up is a very good picture for it waking up to the discover that i wasn't human but a machine and now i try to be human again with my very limited possibilities to do so

my truth is that we live in paradise, well at least this once was paradise, and have been corrupted...(not in a religious, christian way) a very long story

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

no, that was a misunderstanding... "beneath the pavement, the beach" was a slogan in france during the riots 1968.
beneath the pavement (oppression, ugliness, work, imprisonment, destruction etc. lies freedom, beneath the city (prison, culture) lies nature, freedom... maybe you could also say that underneath everyones artificial self there lies the true human...

but maybe you could also say that i have been a miner but not in the underworld but my mind and the minds of others and society, digging deeper into the hidden ideas, symbols, thoughts and digging deeper into history waking up to reality, yes ... waking up is a very good picture for it waking up to the discover that i wasn't human but a machine and now i try to be human again with my very limited possibilities to do so

my truth is that we live in paradise, well at least this once was paradise, and have been corrupted...(not in a religious, christian way) a very long story

OK, so you are talking about “sous le pave: la plage” (under the pavement: the beach). The beach.....the incarnation of a natural, undesignated and non-utilitarian space....which was the opposite of the street, a historic relic of a designated, oppressive environment based on private property.

You say that you were once 'a machine', and are now trying to be a human again....what sort of machine were you, before you decided to go on a quest for humanity?

 

[stoned-trout]

No!!! It ruins my buzz...yeehaw

 

[slaveplanet]

OK, so you are talking about “sous le pave: la plage” (under the pavement: the beach). The beach.....the incarnation of a natural, undesignated and non-utilitarian space....which was the opposite of the street, a historic relic of a designated, oppressive environment based on private property.

You say that you were once 'a machine', and are now trying to be a human again....what sort of machine were you, before you decided to go on a quest for humanity?

a machine in the machine , like everybody else...
not a soldier or a stateslave or something like that, also never was a "normal" worker but i always thought i could improve the world and never looked out for myself and worked like a madman to achieve something i now know was also just a kind of indoctrination, just a machine (or a robot, a slave) doing what it has been told to do, but thinking it was my own idea, it is hard to describe ...

a machine does a task that it is programmed to do, i didn't want to be a machine anymore, it was a process over a period of time and then one thing led to another and i woke up for earnest and since then am learning about myself and the world in another light, in the beginning it was scary, still is when you really are aware of whats going on, but also very liberating. it's like coming home, discovering what is real and what is not, what was taken from us, stopping the self-destruction as far as possible.

maybe you understand it a bit

 

[coldcanna]

So if your talking about post materialism I understand that it's about freeing yourself from the need for obtaining material wealth and unnecessary luxuries and therefore the need to work so much. I'm all for minimalism.

My question for you is, suppose everything you are saying is true and society needs to be remade.... what does the new one look like ? And I don't mean just in a metaphorical sense of "being awake", how would the basic human needs be met? I mean like food, water, buildings for shelter, security? What type of organization or government structure do you envision ?

 

[slaveplanet]

So if your talking about post materialism I understand that it's about freeing yourself from the need for obtaining material wealth and unnecessary luxuries and therefore the need to work so much. I'm all for minimalism.

My question for you is, suppose everything you are saying is true and society needs to be remade.... what does the new one look like ? And I don't mean just in a metaphorical sense of "being awake", how would the basic human needs be met? I mean like food, water, buildings for shelter, security? What type of organization or government structure do you envision ?

a good book is also "in the absence of the sacred" by jerry mander.

in it he compares native peoples and technological peoples among other things.

how would human needs be met... well if our overlords weren't such kind and caring people only wanting our best, having brought us to destroy our own home (earth) and ourselves, well then it would be rather easy to get what we need in abundance and in a healthier and more natural way than with drive throughs and vitamin pills.

i don't believe we as humans will survive long enough that the questions you ask are of relevance , but if they would survive, then the answer is quite simple, you are human and you are native to earth

 

[Gry]

No!!! It ruins my buzz...yeehaw

one man's heaven...

Neat thread.

 

[coldcanna]

a good book is also "in the absence of the sacred" by jerry mander.

in it he compares native peoples and technological peoples among other things.

how would human needs be met... well if our overlords weren't such kind and caring people only wanting our best, having brought us to destroy our own home (earth) and ourselves, well then it would be rather easy to get what we need in abundance and in a healthier and more natural way than with drive throughs and vitamin pills.

i don't believe we as humans will survive long enough that the questions you ask are of relevance , but if they would survive, then the answer is quite simple, you are human and you are native to earth

Interesting angle. I do think we would need a massive die off of population to go back to living off the land. If everyone dropped farming and hunted/ gathered it wouldn't even be a year before the lakes were fished dry and there wasn't a deer to be found. The industrial revolution and intensive farming has grown the human population to levels beyond its natural carrying capacity.

 

[coldcanna]

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/29/science/don-t-blame-columbus-for-all-the-indians-ills.html


A very large study on the health of natives before the arrival of Columbus. Turns out their lifespan was around 35