Spooky Growing

[village green]

It seems few things get a grower's teeth chattering like electricity usage and ( cover your eyes! ) smart meters.
Now I don't want another thread about how the Man is or is not screwing us with those lovely inventions. Of course if tonight, for some reason, just happens to be the first time that someone with honest to God knowledge spills the beans...well that'd be cool

I want to list a few strategies I've either read or dreamed up for lowering your profile. Play devil's advocate to shoot them down.

1) Convert cooking , hot water and heating to propane.

2) Figure the wattage of large appliances such as central heat and air units. Match that with wattage of lights and stop using the unit.

3) Digital ballasts to minimize spikes.

4) Random off cycles every two hours or more during lights on to mimic HVAC units. Supplement with low wattage CFLs to maintain light cycle.

5) Solar panels i.e. 6.4 kw system $15,000

6) Batteries and inverters to power start ups of ballasts and bulbs.

7) Get a hot tub and ask utility company to install sub-panel.

8) To paraphrase Led Zep---"when the willies hit you knock them back with pills"

 

[vta]

I think if someone is worried about their smart meter...the very 1st thing they should do is opt-out. I understand there are a couple places that don't let you...but most do(ie..all of California).

Opt-out and pay your bill every month.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Solar panels for the win. But we went large, 12KW array.

Learn about reef aquariums, they are perfectly legal and about the closest thing to a grow operation in terms of power usage, timing, etc. Because you're growing tropical corals, guess what photoperiod they prefer. Oh yeah, 12/12, FTW again! Need lots of light because you're trying to push light through water. Obviously you need pumps, and if you're using something like a Wavemaker then it's going to have timed ON/OFF cycles. You'll go through a qualified metric shit-ton of water, will need monitoring equipment, etc, etc, etc.

Just be sure to have a tank, hood and sump on the premises. Should be easy enough to find on CL.

 

[village green]

I think if someone is worried about their smart meter...the very 1st thing they should do is opt-out. I understand there are a couple places that don't let you...but most do(ie..all of California).

Opt-out and pay your bill every month.

Would love to but it's not an option in our area. The good old boys on local paper blogs are going nuts.

 

[village green]

Solar panels for the win. But we went large, 12KW array.

Learn about reef aquariums, they are perfectly legal and about the closest thing to a grow operation in terms of power usage, timing, etc. Because you're growing tropical corals, guess what photoperiod they prefer. Oh yeah, 12/12, FTW again! Need lots of light because you're trying to push light through water. Obviously you need pumps, and if you're using something like a Wavemaker then it's going to have timed ON/OFF cycles. You'll go through a qualified metric shit-ton of water, will need monitoring equipment, etc, etc, etc.

Just be sure to have a tank, hood and sump on the premises. Should be easy enough to find on CL.

Good Lord 12 kw is a lot of reefer aquariums
I think solar panels would be hard to beat til they get cheaper on solid oxide fuel cells and similar technologies. Strategies like aquariums, welders and kilns seem helpful but still are likely to earn a visit if you get on the radar.

 

[iampolluted]

did you know space heaters produce 1500w or more? if it gets cold where ya live, you shouldn't have any worries this winter. blame it on electric heat.

i almost love winter lol.

 

[village green]

did you know space heaters produce 1500w or more? if it gets cold where ya live, you shouldn't have any worries this winter. blame it on electric heat.

i almost love winter lol.

Do you have smart meters where you live? Nice teeth BTW but you might look into a moisturizer

 

[Phillthy]

Solar panels for the win. But we went large, 12KW array.

Learn about reef aquariums, they are perfectly legal and about the closest thing to a grow operation in terms of power usage, timing, etc. Because you're growing tropical corals, guess what photoperiod they prefer. Oh yeah, 12/12, FTW again! Need lots of light because you're trying to push light through water. Obviously you need pumps, and if you're using something like a Wavemaker then it's going to have timed ON/OFF cycles. You'll go through a qualified metric shit-ton of water, will need monitoring equipment, etc, etc, etc.

Just be sure to have a tank, hood and sump on the premises. Should be easy enough to find on CL.

so you run your entire grow off solar? any pit falls?

 

[smoooth]

did you know space heaters produce 1500w or more? if it gets cold where ya live, you shouldn't have any worries this winter. blame it on electric heat.

i almost love winter lol.

This. Had a problem with electrical company towards the end of winter and had to go down and talk with them. They pulled up my logs for power usage and saw it was fairly high(running 4 1000watts at the time). The lady looked up at me and the first thing she said was "do you use electrical heaters?" and of course I said "yes". Everything was cleared up right there on the spot and never heard a thing from them again.

 

[iampolluted]

Do you have smart meters where you live? Nice teeth BTW but you might look into a moisturizer

unfortunately i actually have a smart meter on my spot. now that winter is here, if i ever get a knock on my door by the power co., the only thing they are gonna get to see is a space heater.

thanks. being dead since 1979 kinda dries ya up...that and the heat from the space heater.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Good Lord 12 kw is a lot of reefer aquariums
I think solar panels would be hard to beat til they get cheaper on solid oxide fuel cells and similar technologies. Strategies like aquariums, welders and kilns seem helpful but still are likely to earn a visit if you get on the radar.

But, that's just it. If you get on the radar, do you want to show them a a kiln, an aquarium, or your grow? I'll show off my fish tank any day of the week (if I had one). My grow... not so much.

so you run your entire grow off solar? any pit falls?

Not yet, but I'm sure I will be able to no problems. The house uses at most about 6KW of power. Each array produces that pretty easily. We've got two, so we've spent just over a year feeding power power back into the grid. Technically PG&E is supposed to send us a check, at the end of each year, for the excess power they're taking. I don't think I'll ever see a check, so I may as well use what we're generating.

The only problem with a similar set-up (using a grid-tied solar or alternative energy solution) is if you *don't* get back up power generation in the event of a power outage. Even though there is technology that automatically cuts the feed at the main if grid power is lost, that would allow the homeowner to continue with uninterrupted power, the laws (in California) prevent its being used just with a solar array. So we had to get a back up power generator, 8KW. That's alright, I wanted an automatic gennie anyway because I'm unable to pull start our gas gennie.

I think that would really be the only hitch, if I'm running on solar and the grid loses power. Then we'd be switched off automatically at the main (it used to be that Mrs. Homeowner got her stick and switched off the main at the breaker herself) and the gennie would fire up. I don't know if there would be any momentary loss of power, the sort of thing that could make your lamps turn off, then try to fire back up immediately. Perhaps a bank of UPSs would be appropriate in that instance, but we weren't advised to use any for our computers.

 

[village green]

But, that's just it. If you get on the radar, do you want to show them a a kiln, an aquarium, or your grow? I'll show off my fish tank any day of the week (if I had one). My grow... not so much.

Point well taken. Maybe you're saying you think you wouldn't have electric looked at unless you were already on the radar. I'd rather not have anyone snooping around my house to start with. My strategy would be to structure my usage in such a way as to avoid tell-tale spikes, high draws and consistent daily patterns.

I believe generators are too inefficient a way to create electricity except as a back-up source. I don't think we have to connect solar to the grid here.Some companies will lease solar systems and charge you by your usage but I'd rather not use that option for obvious reasons. Most folks advise using batteries and inverters to power a grow to account for cloudy days. Some panels now have built in inverters. Does your 12kw array literally produce 12 kw and if so for how many hours? Do you mind me asking how much it cost you?

 

[Puscifer]

This. Had a problem with electrical company towards the end of winter and had to go down and talk with them. They pulled up my logs for power usage and saw it was fairly high(running 4 1000watts at the time). The lady looked up at me and the first thing she said was "do you use electrical heaters?" and of course I said "yes". Everything was cleared up right there on the spot and never heard a thing from them again.

If you don't mind, what was the problem you were having with the electrical company?

 

[SeaMaiden]

But, that's just it. If you get on the radar, do you want to show them a a kiln, an aquarium, or your grow? I'll show off my fish tank any day of the week (if I had one). My grow... not so much.

Point well taken. Maybe you're saying you think you wouldn't have electric looked at unless you were already on the radar. I'd rather not have anyone snooping around my house to start with. My strategy would be to structure my usage in such a way as to avoid tell-tale spikes, high draws and consistent daily patterns.

What I'm saying is that if it's the electric that's put you on the radar, having any one of those things in place would put any issue to rest immediately. If you have a reef aquarium it's going to operate exactly like a grow as far as the electrical is concerned. There are things that are running constantly (certain pumps), and things that turn on and off according to temps (heaters and chillers) or water parameters (kalkwasser and other dosing systems), or are timed, most often on precisely a 12/12 photoperiod, though there are those folks who keep reef or planted tanks on a longer daylight photoperiod.

And, there are those people who run algal filters or refugia, which are attached natural filtration systems that require their own lighting with its own lighting period, pumps, etc.

I believe generators are too inefficient a way to create electricity except as a back-up source. I don't think we have to connect solar to the grid here.Some companies will lease solar systems and charge you by your usage but I'd rather not use that option for obvious reasons. Most folks advise using batteries and inverters to power a grow to account for cloudy days. Some panels now have built in inverters. Does your 12kw array literally produce 12 kw and if so for how many hours? Do you mind me asking how much it cost you?

I agree about that, automagic propane gennies or not.

We were limited in our grid-tie options because if we had to do the batteries, we wouldn't have been able to meet the lending requirements for the program (federal stimulus funds at work). The loan for the array and other equipment was large, I won't mention in a public forum like this, but if anyone who's familiar with solar installations is reading, I'm sure they might be able to guess what a grid-tied system with back-up propane gennie and all accouterments (transfer switches, new conduit runs, inverters, etc) would run. Good German panels were used, and I think Generac is a pretty good maker of generators.

During peak hours, yes, the two arrays produce a total of 12KW, obviously it's time of day dependent. They installed the inverters almost above my ability to see the readout/digital display, and you have to tap it REALLY HARD to get it to light up and show you what's being generated, etc. If we removed one particular pine we might experience better generation in the mornings, but once the sun gets high it's a moot point, and during winter it's not an issue. I did plant a redwood some years ago that may need to be taken down or topped (yuck) to prevent its interfering with solar generation, but on the whole yes, we're getting that 6KW/array, UNLESS it's snowed. If there's snow on the array, then it's just like your satellite dish--you need to get that snow off. Fortunately, we don't get much snow, and when we do it's not very deep, so it melts off pretty quickly.

My folks have converted to one of those leased solar array thingamabobs and are quite happy about it. What tends to make it a better return on investment for folks like them and us is that we've been paying out-fucking-RAGE-ous electricity prices. For our deal, the program requirement is that our loan payment be no more than an average PG&E payment. I tell you what, we're happy with that! PG&E keeps raising their rates, so before we know it we're going to be on the backside of the savings hill. After 15yrs, it's ours. That's why I'm so happy the panels are German--it's all about the engineering, baby!

 

[Skinny Leaf]

I can for certain tell you one thing that will get you on the power company's radar. I have seen it first hand. I helped get someone growing that lives in a house by himself. He was very efficient with his electric before the grow. Now with his smart meter he gets a letter from the power company saying they looked at his meter as he requested due to high electrical usage. They found nothing wrong with his meter. He never saw a technician come out. Nor did he ever call the electric company to come check his meter. So maybe easing into a bigger grow would be a better option if your normal power usage has been low for the period the smart meter has been around.

If power detection is a concern. Then, it seems flip-flop rooms are the order of the day. Then there is no 12/12 cycle showing up on the usage chart. That seems to be the only feasible way to fool the chart. Most of the off the grid type electrical generation is expensive for one and not really a reliable constant source of power. Don't get me wrong alternative power is going to have its place, but, there are other changes to electrical systems that should be met first to make these alternative power sources fully functional.