Sphagnum Peat Moss and Seadlings

[sproutco]

Sorry everyone for starting a post that turned into a flame, lets just chill.

I do still stand behind my opinion that peat moss is no good for cannabis. Here is something that makes no sense. People say to add lime to peat moss but lime has nutes in it. Its high in Mg and Ca. How can advise be given telling people not to fert their plants or plant their seedlings in a medium that has ferts in it for the first 3 weeks of the plants life but then say its ok to add lime. I must be completely missing something here. The ph of my peat moss is way below 6. Just take a look at the picture of my seedling. I have had to do some emergency transplanting but the problem is I cannot simply remove the peat moss since the roots are so embedded into the medium. I also included a picture of the peat based medium I thought would be great to start my seedlings in. This stuff really sucks.

I don't think the American Seed corporation who manufactured that seed starter is really mainstream. :smile: Don't laugh though. Scotts seed starter seems suck ass too. Ended up being just peatmoss without lime it looked like. Threw it away. You will get good success with using a soilless mix like promix, fafard, sunshine, majestic, etc...that contains peatmoss and has been limed properly. Reason you don't add ferts to seed starting and only lime is that salts interfere with germination although potassium nitrate at low rates has been shown to help in some seeds. Wait till the seedling begins to show true leaves (not cotyledons or first leaves that appear) and apply ferts that are complete like 20-20-20 at a rate of 75-100 parts per million nitrogen. With 20-20-20 that would be about 1/4 teaspoon (1.25ml) per gallon (3.8L) of water.

 

[sproutco]

Sproutco you say I need to read whats in your signature,I did man and it was about as helpful as the rest of the bookstuff you spew about ph and such,and you dont even grow MJ??You go around telling people its just fine to have a soil ph below 6 and you dont grow MJ?I've had low soil ph GROWING MJ and I'll just continue to use my dolomite and keep my soil ph between 6 and 7.Not 5.5 or 5.8

Soilless mix 5.6-6.2
Soil 6-6.5

 

[Guest]

Promix has been limed properly?This is what I'm talking about man,its nothing personal.Have you grown MJ with promix without liming it first?I have and to say its limed beforehand and good to go will cause a lot of folks unnecessary headaches.Lime your p[romix people.I know what the literature says about PH.I also know that anything below 6 ph has always caused me problems whether promix ocean forest or whatever.You've got a lot of knowledge man but experience with growing MJ is whats most important when giving advice IMO

 

[sproutco]

Promix has been limed properly?This is what I'm talking about man,its nothing personal.Have you grown MJ with promix without liming it first?I have and to say its limed beforehand and good to go will cause a lot of folks unnecessary headaches.Lime your p[romix people.I know what the literature says about PH.I also know that anything below 6 ph has always caused me problems whether promix ocean forest or whatever.You've got a lot of knowledge man but experience with growing MJ is whats most important when giving advice IMO

I am sorry your so dissatisfied with promix. Frankly, I have never tried it. I use Fafard soilless mixes (sometimes sold under the brand majestic). It tests about 6.2 after wetting without the need for additional lime. Fafard 3 is an excellent well draining mix that requires no added lime and contains gypsum. Here is what fafard says:

Fafard mixes are limed so that 2 or 3 days after watering in, the pH will be between 5.5 and 6.5. However, the amount of lime in the mix is only one of several factors that affect media pH as the crop is grown. Water alkalinity level and type of fertilizer used also have a major influence on mix pH. Alkalinity, a measure of a waters ability to neutralize acid, is caused by the bicarbonate ion. Highly alkaline waters can cause mix pH to increase over time with high levels causing a greater degree of increase than lower levels. While moderately alkaline water may not change media pH, low alkalinity can actually cause mix pH to decrease. Water alkalinity levels can easily be determined through water analysis. Fertilizer also affects media pH. Fertilizer that contain ammonium or urea (20-20-20, for example) have an acidifying effect, causing a decrease in pH after repeated use. Fertilizers that contain little or no ammonium or urea (like 20-10-20) are not strong acidifiers. Some materials like 15-0-15 have a basic effect, resulting in a pH increase. The label of soluble fertilize bags will always show the material's potential acidity or potential basisity. This measure can be used to judge a fertilizer's potential to change growing mix pH. With controlled release fertilizers, the potential acidity or basisity is not shown on the bag. If the fertilizer is formulated with ammonium or urea, or is sulfur coated, the material will have a acidifying effect on mix pH. The amount of lime in the mix is not always the main factor controlling mix pH. Two other factors the alkalinity of the irrigation water and the type and concentration of fertilizer used also have a major influence on pH. When managing growing mix pH, all 3 factors must be considered.

By the way, who said I have never grown mj?

 

[vonforne]

PS: Adding lime doesn't make sense when peat moss buffers to 7.0. All it will do is leach organic matter to compost. Lime is an aid to decomposition, why would you want to try to accelerate decomposition of the peat moss medium? IMHO I think the lime wives' tale started with trying to fix bad dirt, and it got carried over to include any potting mixture. Peat moss isn't bad dirt and when drainage enhancements are added nothing else should be needed. Or I've just been lucky in 45 years of growing.

The peat or most peat that you will find has already been treated with some kind of liming agent. If you use your peat for one grow only , you might get by with out adding any lime but as time progresses your peat will decompose with or without lime in it. And you ph will fall greatly and with no lime to buffer it you WILL have problems.
Some problems will be small but over time they will increase to a point that your plant will suffer some kind of deficency. And if you have found the magic cure for PH balance in soil, please fill the rest of us in on that secret. With 45 years of experience you have a wealth of knowledge to spred around. And IMO it is not just the peat that lowers the ph but all the other admendments as well. wormcastings, we all use it, is very acidic. You mean to tell me that the peat buffers the castings acidity? And the compost, guanos, manures? I don't think so.

 

[Guest]

For the record, note that I said I mix according to Premiere Horticultures' ProMix recipe. ProMix for houseplants and ProMix for containers both have unwanted additives and will cause problems if not watched close.

And yes, I only use fresh mix with each grow, occasionally forced to reuse after sterilized and adjusted. If anyone uses a properly mixed and aged medium I would hope that PH is checked after mixing in nutes.

I'm lucky to have great water. I'm an aquarium buff and have always buffered my tapwater to Neutral 7 with the aid of SeaChem's PH Neutral, which removes chlorine, chloramides, etc. Ph has never been an issue but nute strength has. Neutral ph water drains off in my mix at 6.8. Soil ph is something I take with a grain of salt because of the faultering accuracy of cheap soil test kits, as peat composts more lime would be needed, but in my case I just add new or mix a new batch (which contains Premieres' additives). Adding more ProMix adds more lime. Basic and simple.

BTW - I never use ph'd water in my cloner (I know that's a diff thread), when I top off the rez things seem to work better with a dose of chlorine once a week.

Way to much time is spent on debates than on actual hands on, the plants will tell you if you if you fuck something up. Find what works for you and THEN research why so you get an idea of the big picture IMO. A lot of conficting information floating around to confuse new growers - new people should start at the basics like we did and work up. I have good success with peat moss for seedlings watered with Phd tapwater and kept warm - I treat seedling mix with cinnamon powder to avoid dampoff, when potted up in Rootblast treated mix and fed veg nutes once (10-10-10),potted up twice and fed once 10-52-10 during flower they seem to have all they need to keep me stoned.

And lighten up guys, jeez it's the net - my closing comment was meant as a wry attempt at humor - tounge-in-cheek comment, not some statement to take offense at. I guess the being lucky part is that I'm dam lucky not to have to argue semantics with some of you every day. I'd never get anything grown.

My bottom line addressing the thread topic is that IMO you should never have trouble with Premiere Horticulture's ProMix basic - not water retaining additives and the like as in the houseplant or container mixes. The bales of ProMix burn out after a few grows and is either replaced or fortified with new lime. Mine seem to last a year of grows, and are always aged before I use them, in storage for 6 mos or longer after breaking open the bails and aerating well. IMHO the factory treated peat moss with lime is formulated to work trouble free for a few good grows, and is a good starting point for new growers. Nothing more than a building block to tweak as you gain more knowledge about your strains and what they like.

Is it just me, or is this place getting OG type argumentative responses posted for stirring up shit, rather than quality assistance our community has the history of providing. I don't think your thread has turned into a flame war, I do think a poll would have been more informative for you without laying out grounds for chemists & rocket scientists to argue over. The last poll I saw rated peat moss ("ProMix") ("soil-less) around 80% satisfaction of growers that used it if I remember correctly. 20% hard core custom mix growers all have their own theories as to why their mix works best for them, and kelp, fish emulsions and other beneficial addities are valid with most mediums.

We could have grown out a strain by now instead of hashing semantics.

 

[Guest]

The peat or most peat that you will find has already been treated with some kind of liming agent. If you use your peat for one grow only , you might get by with out adding any lime but as time progresses your peat will decompose with or without lime in it. And you ph will fall greatly and with no lime to buffer it you WILL have problems.
Some problems will be small but over time they will increase to a point that your plant will suffer some kind of deficency. And if you have found the magic cure for PH balance in soil, please fill the rest of us in on that secret. With 45 years of experience you have a wealth of knowledge to spred around. And IMO it is not just the peat that lowers the ph but all the other admendments as well. wormcastings, we all use it, is very acidic. You mean to tell me that the peat buffers the castings acidity? And the compost, guanos, manures? I don't think so.

I guess so. If additives are added and ph is high, when filtered through mosses the drainoff is neutral. I'm talking aquarium, now. We've always used different mosses in our filters to achieve our desired ph. It's always worked for me and I never had reason to question why, knowing the filtration properties of mosses it makes sense to me. And we don't all use worm casings, some of us don't use any nutes other than basic (~10-10-10) and Big Bloom/Super Bloom/etc (~10-52-10) twice throughout a grow. The great growers have tweaked for their strains and conditions and found kelp and guano to their liking. IMO those are advanced topics and not to be offered to new growers to confuse and frustrate. Learn how to grow what you want first, then when you can afford to tweak, tweak away - but don't try to convince a new grower that any method is better than the basics of gardening. I've been put off trying stuff because of banter heard at other sites only to try it and find out how to tweak it to work in my situation and ended up with good results in s pite of all the bashing by "those in the know.."

Give a new grower the basics and let them decide for themselves what they think works best and what is disasterrous.

Back to my cave, this is counter-productive and gettin way off thread. Sorry for the occasional ranting, see ya in chat...

 

[tiktok420]

I am going to give "Fox Farm Light Warrior" a try. I just purchased a bag today. I know, I know, you don't need to say it, it has peat moss. I have heard good things about this soilless mix for seedlings.

Perhaps someone that has used the "Fox Farm Light Warrior" before can give me some pointers. For example how much perlite is suggested if any with the "Fox Farm Light Warrior"? When should I start feeding my seedlings with this mix? On the fox farm website it says "Start feeding plants within five days of planting or germination".

Thanks

 

[vonforne]

1toke, what is your soil mix to achievce this. I have been looking in to organic additives the are either Akline or acidic. If you use them in the right portions I suppose you could balance the PH that way. What do you think? And are you using a balanced soil mixture to achieve this?

 

[Dan42nepa]

promix

promix

I started 3 seedlings with premier promix and 30 percent perlite mixed in.. They sprouted quickly and did well. I didnt add anything.. Saturday I put some sprouted seeds in 1 inch rockwool cubes (pre soaked for 24 hours in distilled water) I put them into a foil pan under a plastic cover and under my lights. yesterday I chickened out and decided to move them to the promix because of my past positive experiences. When I cut the rockwool cubes open both roots had grown at least a 1/2 inch. I still transplanted them but I could have left them where they were.

 

[Guest]

Dan its when you transplant to your flowering pot that the dolomite lime will be needed,and with promix it will be needed!I'd use it in my veg pot also but its mainly in flower when the ph takes a nosedive

 

[vonforne]

Premier Pro-Mix, isn;t that limed to begin with Skeletor? If so and he is placing them in rockwool later then I son't think he needs the lime now. If he is not keeping them there until flowering Dan should be alright.