AgentPothead
Just this guy, ya know?
Not a marijuana clone, but hella impressive all the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_(tree)
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Sorting Through A Bunch Of Seeds In A Small Space
- Thread starter Jellyfish
- Start date
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_(tree)
JustSumTomatoes
Indicas make dreams happen
Wow, that's simply amazing. I had no idea that there was a tree that could do that. It reminds me of the Mycelium that connects massive structures of fungi throughout a forest. Hopefully they'll be able to preserve the Pando tree for years to come. Thanks for sharing that.
All of the varieties of apples that we enjoy come from grafts not seeds. The host tree may have been seed grown but the top is chopped off while the tree is still a sapling and the graft is attached so the resulting tree will be what is grafted to it. You can't get say, a Golden Delicious from growing out the seeds of one. In fact, most seed grown apples aren't all that great. Every once in a while a tree will pop up that hits it out of the park and grafts are taken.
One of the problems of this is that there is a lack of genetic diversity leaving whole populations of trees vulnerable to disease and pests. If you've seen the documentary The Botany of Desire this is discussed. They've been going back to Kazakhstan (where all apple genetics are originally from) to collect seeds from land races to bring back new breeding stock with hopes of coming up with new trees that are both delicious and pest/disease resistant.
Horticulture and biology in general never fail to leave me in awe the more I learn.
G
GatorGumbo
With my approach, I take more time but feel more confident in my selection choices. I grow for personal only, and I don't like having large numbers of plants around the house. So, since I can't do mass quantity I aim for quality.
I grow out twelve to fifteen unsexed seeds at a time, cull the runts off the bat. Daytime temps are around 75-82F at 50% RH, night time can swing as low as 50F. This sorts out the weak blood and leaves me with around ten to twelve keeper seedlings. I don't want to necessarily pick specifically for my own stable growing environment, most folks would probably prefer to not have their crop falter because their selections can't handle an occasional (inevitable) ride on the struggle bus.
If I am trying to select for good SOG/SCROG/Mainline plants I will train them, but if just selecting for general expressions then I will leave them untrained. Makes it easier to spot mutations and problems. Let the plant show you what it wants to do on its own and then you decide if it's going to take well to your intentions, or perhaps do better a different way.
Males get pulled up when flowered. When I chop the females I leave them as a stub with a few lower branches still intact, so that after sampling the end product I can select the one or two that are the best to keep around as mother plants.
Next round is repeated as necessary and those plants are graded against the mothers, if they surpass them then they join or replace those existing mothers. I keep only three mothers of any one strain. It's a good idea to make some mother F1/S1 seeds as soon as you are done sorting through the strain so you don't risk losing the selection and 100% of your hard work. Give some to a good buddy or share them with everyone you know, you'll be glad you did.
Anyways, that is how I go about it. Personally, I select for smell and effect. Not quick, but extremely thorough and cheaper to not pull plants that I've already been feeding just to start over instead of smoking them. I think that plants usually have some indicators such as trichome density and terpene levels that give clues to their potency or effect, but there's no way around getting the proof from the pudding. Basically, I'm playing the genetic lottery and since I can't buy tickets en masse, I simply make sure to check every ticket I do have for any winning numbers.
Now, there's something to be said for making selections as opposed to breeding a new strain. In my opinion, making selections is easy because you can afford to toss out a lot of sub-nominal genetic material without risking much potential ending up in the bin. When breeding, which is to say working a strain by introducing new genetics, you're potentially throwing out a great deal of unexpressed and/or unremarkable genetics with the bath water. I'm no breeder, but it's simply more practical to play the numbers than it is to trend genetics through multiple generations in that case. There's going to be a lot of background noise in that scenario, unlike in selection where criteria are more acute and every plant is generally worth harvesting. I expect the really good breeders use a two-tiered multi-sex approach to things, but mostly in the same fashion of either tactic and based on their goals.
I grow out twelve to fifteen unsexed seeds at a time, cull the runts off the bat. Daytime temps are around 75-82F at 50% RH, night time can swing as low as 50F. This sorts out the weak blood and leaves me with around ten to twelve keeper seedlings. I don't want to necessarily pick specifically for my own stable growing environment, most folks would probably prefer to not have their crop falter because their selections can't handle an occasional (inevitable) ride on the struggle bus.
If I am trying to select for good SOG/SCROG/Mainline plants I will train them, but if just selecting for general expressions then I will leave them untrained. Makes it easier to spot mutations and problems. Let the plant show you what it wants to do on its own and then you decide if it's going to take well to your intentions, or perhaps do better a different way.
Males get pulled up when flowered. When I chop the females I leave them as a stub with a few lower branches still intact, so that after sampling the end product I can select the one or two that are the best to keep around as mother plants.
Next round is repeated as necessary and those plants are graded against the mothers, if they surpass them then they join or replace those existing mothers. I keep only three mothers of any one strain. It's a good idea to make some mother F1/S1 seeds as soon as you are done sorting through the strain so you don't risk losing the selection and 100% of your hard work. Give some to a good buddy or share them with everyone you know, you'll be glad you did.
Anyways, that is how I go about it. Personally, I select for smell and effect. Not quick, but extremely thorough and cheaper to not pull plants that I've already been feeding just to start over instead of smoking them. I think that plants usually have some indicators such as trichome density and terpene levels that give clues to their potency or effect, but there's no way around getting the proof from the pudding. Basically, I'm playing the genetic lottery and since I can't buy tickets en masse, I simply make sure to check every ticket I do have for any winning numbers.
Now, there's something to be said for making selections as opposed to breeding a new strain. In my opinion, making selections is easy because you can afford to toss out a lot of sub-nominal genetic material without risking much potential ending up in the bin. When breeding, which is to say working a strain by introducing new genetics, you're potentially throwing out a great deal of unexpressed and/or unremarkable genetics with the bath water. I'm no breeder, but it's simply more practical to play the numbers than it is to trend genetics through multiple generations in that case. There's going to be a lot of background noise in that scenario, unlike in selection where criteria are more acute and every plant is generally worth harvesting. I expect the really good breeders use a two-tiered multi-sex approach to things, but mostly in the same fashion of either tactic and based on their goals.
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Goes to show keeping it simple works wonders. The storage bins sound like a good substitute for domes, do you have to cut any little vents in there? I'm sure snipping the leaves like that have to make a difference in some capacity, it makes sense. Done it both ways, usually get about the same success rate you mentioned yourself but haven't used that technique in a bit. Now that it's on my mind considering repeating a few tests with the same strain to see how much of a difference the snip really makes
Thanks! Yeah, use the storage bins like domes, exactly. You don't have to cut vents into it, because they don't fit tight anyway. I guess now you mention it, vents wouldn't hurt.
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
It's also a fantastic was to look for Rodelization in the field! This is exactly what happened to popcorn I ignored until and visited in November.
G
GatorGumbo
Depends on the strain and how much foliage is left on the plant. Personally, I would tally the ability to recover from the ordeal as a factor of vigour, a desirable trait even if not prioritized by every breeder. Usually, they have zero issues with it, but I stay away from strains that are too finicky/stubborn with switching or not switching.
I also don't re-pot and trim roots immediately after flushing and harvest, I let them complete the switch back to veg under half power lights and then set them up with a complete redressing. Indoor with soil is really where the tactic is the most practical, in my opinion.
I've never had a plant even barely die from it, but when done on outdoor ground planted specimens it can really make them flounder. Factor that in with doing it at the wrong time or have a week worth of weather not go your way and I'm sure you could lose a few to stress.
Subbed! Interesting topic 
F
Frylock
Something i like to do, because i'm lazy and yield isn't usually that important for me, i put up to 10 seeds in one pot, let them show sex then cut the males, then re-veg the females a little in the same pot and then flower them to see if there is anything i want to clone and grow again.
Maybe it's unprofessional and obviously isn't ideal for yield but it's easy and helps me discard anything that doesn't interest me without the hassle of having many clones that will be ultimately discarded.
The only risk is if they don't re-veg or i can't take cuttings, but that's a risk i'm willing to take.... it's usually fine.
JustSumTomatoes
Indicas make dreams happen
Do any of you guys feel that fem seeds are inferior to regs? Would it be a negative to use a select plant that's been selfed to narrow down your search? I know many desirable plants have been found by selfing the pre-98 bubba and such.
G
GatorGumbo
Used to be that female seeds tended to be less remarkable while carrying the threat of hermaphroditism. That's still the case with some breeders and strains, but it's become much less common. Some female seeds, like Ace's Golden Tiger, are supposed to be better than the regular seeds.
I used to grow 20 plants from seed in coco, small pots 1.5l pepsi bottles cut to top of label (so tall but thin). 5-7 males leaves you with 13-15 plants. Grow as a single cola. 12/12 once they put out first proper leaves. This is a good way of sorting through seeds and will keep you stocked.
Most plants will put out a few shoots to take a little cutting, the odd one wont but you can reveg if you like the plant.
Most plants will put out a few shoots to take a little cutting, the odd one wont but you can reveg if you like the plant.
Shmavis
Being-in-the-world
How ever you go about it, I would advise against culling runts. Plenty of times I have found the runt(s) to be the winner in the end. Right now I have a plant that started as a runt but is now the tallest of four girls. And as the end of days get nearer she's distinguishing herself more and more from her sisters. But until she's smoked, who knows? She may come up short in comparison of effect... but I have a feeling that won't be the case.
Best of luck!
Best of luck!
JustSumTomatoes
Indicas make dreams happen
Does anyone else notice that seeds that turn out to be males often take off quicker and show more vigor than females?
F
Frylock
Yes, i do but i still wait for balls to be sure.
My guess is that they go into stretch mode a bit sooner, maybe?
