soil ph problems

[larry badiner]

im using fox farms soil and whenever i water my ph drops to below ph4. the guy at the hydro store said fox farms soil has stuff in it so it adjusts the ph automatically, should i be using ph8 tap water to water? when i water i ph water to 6-6.5, add molasses/epsoms salt and put in maybe 1/4th of a teaspoon of hydrogen peroxide, i didnt ph my run off because of the way i have my plant setup but i test my soil ph the other day. its at ph7 and ive notice newer growth in the flowers

my plants are their sixth week of flowering and im guessing i had highly acidic soil since week three or four, so im estimating 2 weeks of really fucked up soil ph. the only two causes of soil ph fluxation im guessing are

1. ph'd water/molasses lowering the soil ph
2. nutes lower/lowered the soil ph

since im already in week 6 i figure i'll water with plain ph8 tap water for the rest of the grow. the bud tops started to perk up, and they look like they're going to add a couple of inches to the cola's over the next 2-3 weeks. here are some pics from day 23 or so

 

[HeadyPete]

Stop the epsom salts and hydrogen peroxide. The downturned clawed leaves means overfeeding from the epsom SALTS, even though the ph is too low and nutrients are locked up.

You have to adjust your fert ph after adding and mixing everything together. You adjust ph last. You ferts need to be at 8 for now to get your 4 up to 6. As the soil gets closer to ideal, you will be dropping the ph of the nutes closer to 6.3, ideal.

No soil adjusts itself. That's a guy at the store who doesn't understand ph using marketing jargon and misleading people. It means there is lime or oyster shell in the mix that raises and stabilizes ph against the acidic peat moss in the mix. If you are throwing out of whack ferts in the soil it won't help. If you feed ferts at correct ph then the soil will stay stabilized at correct ph longer.

PH naturally drops from microbial action, which you don't have cause the hydrogen peroxide killed all your beneficial organisms. Beneficials consume the nutrients you add, excrete waste and this waste is what the plant consumes as nutrients. This is only for organic ferts, mineral or synthetic ferts are taken up directly by the plant. With no beneficials, your plants are not getting food. The nutes you add just get washed out.

Guano and fish based ferts are usually very acidic, as is Floralicious Plus.

PH raises as roots take nutrients out of the soil and raises faster as pots get more root bound and plant becomes more efficient at taking nutes out of the soil.

Quit with the molasses and get a good grow/bloom combo like BioBizz or Earth Juice. BB is derived from molasses, so you don't need to add any. Molasses is an enhancer and a sugar fuel for the plant and should only be used when you know what you are doing and you have figured out the correct feeding regime for each plant perfectly.

You need to feed P and K and probably cal too or you will not have a happy harvest. Do it now and up until 2 weeks before harvest. P is for blooming and K is for lots of things, but if your pot is deficient in K it will not stay lit as a joint. This plant is going to take longer than you think. Only when the trichs are ripe should you cut. My last plants (LUI) went over 100 days in coco under 600.

Always test runoff and record it somewhere, it will tell you what to adjust to next watering and gives you an overall look at plant ph.

Throw that soil ph meter in the garbage and get a digi pen if you don't have one. All soil probes are garbage. Pool strips aren't much better.

 

[KIEFFER]

I am a new comer as well and already found that the soil testers are garbage. I am on my way this week to get a better one. I have had really good results with FF soil I am not sure which you are using but i have the Light Warrior and i also follow the complete FF feeding schd. It has worked very well for me. I am in my 39th day of flowering and I havent used a ph meter till I got that piece of junk that i will be returning tomorrow. my point is that i havent needed one i guess. But now I am starting to see some small things here and there and i am getting a good digital tester to have. I figure its worth the investment. I have read some good threads that say most problems lead to Ph.

I agree with Heady. I know my soil cost too much to be just wasing away the benefits of why i chose to go with the FF line. I use it all through my cycle Big Grow, Tiger Bloom, Big Bloom and all granular products as well. I also have had good results with using Olivias in the cloning stage. But I dont think i could use hydrogen peroxide.

PH naturally drops from microbial action, which you don't have cause the hydrogen peroxide killed all your beneficial organisms. Beneficials consume the nutrients you add, excrete waste and this waste is what the plant consumes as nutrients. This is only for organic ferts, mineral or synthetic ferts are taken up directly by the plant. With no beneficials, your plants are not getting food. The nutes you add just get washed out

For what my 2 cents is worth to ya.

 

[HeadyPete]

Is there an echo in here? :wink:

 

[larry badiner]

i did some testing and i found out that it was my ph down that was causing soil ph problems, my soil ph is at about 7 and after watering with nutes it usually goes down to about 6.5

gave my plants some nutes, buds are starting to fatten up, all is well i guess

edit: im not using a soil ph tester, im putting soil in some ro water and checking the ph of that after 5-10 minutes

 

[larry badiner]

Is there an echo in here? :wink:

i dont think the amount of hydrogen peroxide i put in there would effect my plant in such a dramatic way. aside from some nutrient lockout caused by some ph down i suppose was meant for hydroponic res' my plants are fine. iirc i used hydrogen peroxide on my blue mystic grow and my plants didnt microbiologically stop absorbing all nutrients because of whatever weird ass bullshit you believe lol, im pretty sure i used the same nutes and chances are my ph was at the same level and my plants smoked fine

i gotta learn to stop panicking and listening to arrogant know it all growers that probably couldnt grow themselves out of a brown paper sack

 

[Guest]

Always test runoff and record it somewhere, it will tell you what to adjust to next watering and gives you an overall look at plant ph.

Throw that soil ph meter in the garbage and get a digi pen if you don't have one. All soil probes are garbage. Pool strips aren't much better.

Does testing the pH of runoff give you the soil pH or just a fairly good idea of it? Also I cant afford a digital pH pen right now, in your opinion how accurate are the pH testing solutions, you know where you fill a tube up to a line and then add a few drops of testing solution, shake it and then compare the color to a colored strip of varying pH levels? What about testing the actual soil, where you fill a tube up so much with the soil, add a capsule of whatever powder, then add water and shake to compare the color to a strip of varying pH colors? PLEASE respond to this in a PM to me so I get your response, I dont like having too many thread subscriptions, it gets too confusing!

 

[greenhead]

iirc i used hydrogen peroxide on my blue mystic grow and my plants didnt microbiologically stop absorbing all nutrients because of whatever weird ass bullshit you believe lol,

Heady Pete knows what he's talking about, IMO, and it's certainly not weird ass bullshit. Hydrogen peroxide won't make your plants stop absorbing ALL nutrients, but I do believe that it will kill some of your beneficials. So what's the point in having a fancy soil, when you're just adding Hydrogen Peroxide that is going to eliminate some of the stuff that is beneficial to the soil and to the plants ? Makes no sense at all, but do what you want.....

 

[greenhead]

Also I cant afford a digital pH pen right now, in your opinion how accurate are the pH testing solutions, you know where you fill a tube up to a line and then add a few drops of testing solution, shake it and then compare the color to a colored strip of varying pH levels?

If I had a nickel for everytime I read some grow journal where somebody has those expensive meters and their PH was all fucked up because of bad batteries or bad calibration, etc., I'd open up a bank with the money.

The cheap ass solution kits work just fine for a small grow, unless somebody is a complete fucking retard. No batteries needed, no calibration needed and no user error (assuming the user is of normal intelligence). If you're not colorblind and not retarded, then the PH kits are just fine.

 

[MoeBudz^420]

They are plenty accurate...

They are plenty accurate...

Yup, most of these solution type kits are for aquarium testing, and if they were inaccurate expensive tropical fish would die, resulting in a very pissed off aquarium owner. Fish are just as PH sensitive as any plant is...

Best cheap alternative by far to me...200 tests for 6.99. Make sure to get the wide range test, I messed up and accidentally grabbed the low range. It works, but widerange is better...



Peace

 

[Daemon]

i dont think the amount of hydrogen peroxide i put in there would effect my plant in such a dramatic way. aside from some nutrient lockout caused by some ph down i suppose was meant for hydroponic res' my plants are fine. iirc i used hydrogen peroxide on my blue mystic grow and my plants didnt microbiologically stop absorbing all nutrients because of whatever weird ass bullshit you believe lol, im pretty sure i used the same nutes and chances are my ph was at the same level and my plants smoked fine

i gotta learn to stop panicking and listening to arrogant know it all growers that probably couldnt grow themselves out of a brown paper sack

Wow. I'm a new grower and fairly new here, though I have been lurking for quite a while, but I do know that Heady Pete knows what he is talking about. But, as others said, do whatever the hell you want...

 

[Guest]

"arrogant know it all growers"???? I don't know about that one my friend but I personally find those you call "arrogant know it alls", (are you speaking of?) Van Patten, Rosenthal, Cervantes, JJ Scorpio, PICO, Gypsy, HeadyPete, et. al. to be some damned smart peeps that you might learn from, I know that I do and certainly you can too. If you truly knew what you were doing there wouldn't be the problems that you are experiencing, that is a FACT!

Cracking the books is what most folks have to do to ACE a test, myself included. They don't cost much when compared to the price of half a zip on the street. I don't know of any tradesman that goes to work without the tools needed to do the job.

Kinda of reminds me of a first period carpenters apprentice some years ago that couldn't drill the holes in a piece of wood. It wasn't a dull drill bit that was the problem, he just didn't understand that he had the drill motor running in reverse. There is a difference.

Respectfully submitted,

TyStik

 

[KIEFFER]

Is there an echo in here? :wink:

I apologize. I was still figuring out the forum. Now I know how to quote. That is what I meant to do to begin with. I took the advice and went out and made the minimal investment on a digital PH pen. I guess I am what some people in this thread would call a "fucking retard". I don’t think so. I am new to growing all around. I am still trying to understand how to maintain a good ph level. As I mentioned in my previous post that i am starting to see some issues. I will be able to add pics soon. I know I need to start with fixing the ph 1st before I do anything with nutes. I tested some of the run off water tonight with one plant that looks very similar to a potassium problem (going from the guide in the infirmary) and the ph was 5.1. How do I go about correcting my soil's ph 1st?

 

[Guest]

Listen to Headypete, he knows his shit!!!!

I flush the soil with 2x the volume of the pot to correct for pH or overfert problems. Water the soil with a new nutrient mix with approx the volume of the pot size and let drain.

The use of salt based fertilizers and Epsom salts will result in low pH problems as the nutrient is taken up by the plant leaving an ACIDIC salt residue in the soil. I know this quite well after growing a couple of grows with salt based Shultz 10-15-10 and Epsom salts as a Mg source. I would have to flush about every 2 weeks during full flowering.

FYI, here's a nice chart that shows the idea pH and which nutes get locked out by bad pH.

 

[DaveMR]

Hello, not hijacking, I am just in the same predicament.
I am growing in westlands compost http://www.gardenhealth.com/product/40/30 and would like to check to see if my ph is suitable. I am popping round to borrow a friends ph meter shortly so will be using that.
Do I water as normal ( I have not phhed my water before using this soil)
and then check the run off ph ?
Also is phhing absolutely necessary as up until now, and I potted up into this compost 2 weeks ago and have only seen lush green growth up until now.

Thanks

 

[Guest]

I water my plants until a little bit comes out, usually under 1/4 cup or so. If you run too much through it will be at the pH of the nute mixture.

pH is just a tool that let's you grow better and correct little problems before they start.

 

[KIEFFER]

Listen to Headypete, he knows his shit!!!!

I flush the soil with 2x the volume of the pot to correct for pH or overfert problems. Water the soil with a new nutrient mix with approx the volume of the pot size and let drain.

The use of salt based fertilizers and Epsom salts will result in low pH problems as the nutrient is taken up by the plant leaving an ACIDIC salt residue in the soil. I know this quite well after growing a couple of grows with salt based Shultz 10-15-10 and Epsom salts as a Mg source. I would have to flush about every 2 weeks during full flowering.

FYI, here's a nice chart that shows the idea pH and which nutes get locked out by bad pH.

First off Thank you so much for that chart thats great. So if I am reading right I flush with 2x the vol of water. My question is right after I flush I should mix and water with nutes?

 

[HeadyPete]

like my new sig?

 

[HeadyPete]

I apologize. I was still figuring out the forum. Now I know how to quote. That is what I meant to do to begin with. I took the advice and went out and made the minimal investment on a digital PH pen. I guess I am what some people in this thread would call a "fucking retard". I don’t think so. I am new to growing all around. I am still trying to understand how to maintain a good ph level. As I mentioned in my previous post that i am starting to see some issues. I will be able to add pics soon. I know I need to start with fixing the ph 1st before I do anything with nutes. I tested some of the run off water tonight with one plant that looks very similar to a potassium problem (going from the guide in the infirmary) and the ph was 5.1. How do I go about correcting my soil's ph 1st?

Short answer, adjust your nute solution to 7.5 to counter balance and raise ph. As the soil gets closer to ideal, you won't need to adjust so far.

Do all your mixing of ferts, additives, whatever, then test ph and adjust with ph up or down.

Correct range is 5.8 - 6.8 with ideal at 6.3 soil, hydro whatever. I know there is alot of opinions on ph, and I know the common wisdom is that hydro and soil should be different, but no one has been able to explain why exactly. If someone knows I would love to hear the answer.

These are the numbers I settled on after doing a lot of research and I know 6.3 works for me and by being in the middle of the range, little ph swings don't drift out of range as much.

 

[HeadyPete]

Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) is a very pale blue liquid which appears colorless in a dilute solution, slightly more viscous than water. It is a weak acid. It has strong oxidizing properties and is therefore a powerful bleaching agent that is mostly used for bleaching paper, but has also found use as a disinfectant, as an oxidizer, as an antiseptic, and in rocketry (particularly in high concentrations as high-test peroxide (HTP)) as a monopropellant, and in bipropellant systems. The oxidizing capacity of hydrogen peroxide is so strong that the chemical is considered a highly reactive oxygen species.

Hydrogen peroxide is generally recognized as safe (GRAS) as an antimicrobial agent, an oxidizing agent and for other purposes by the US Food and Drug Administration.[9]

Hydrogen peroxide has been used as an antiseptic and anti-bacterial agent for many years due to its oxidizing effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide