Soil P.h @ 7.0 please HELP!!

[stinkfinger]

hey guys noticed some of my plants were yellowing the other day checked my ph and its @ 7.0. I have tried flushing the soil with ph 6.0 balanced water, but no luck. I am using foxfarms oceanfloor and foxfarm light warrior. I also used pelletized Dolomite lime as a ph buffer. Are the pellets keeping the soil alkalinty too high? I went and bought some powdered dolomite today! Sould I repot? Damn this shit is frustrating.

 

[Charles Xavier]

Greetings stinkfinger.

A neutral pH in soil will not cause nutrient uptake problems. The plants are yellowing probably because of Nitrogen deficiency.

One or perhaps all the following applies:
Increase your fertilizer application and/or strength.

Further enrich your soil with beneficial micro-organisms to better convert the organic derived fertilizers (assumption) being applied.

Use a kelp based fertilizer via foliar application to supply Nitrogen directly to the leaves and to increase the plant hormones necessary to maintain lush, green growth.

Transplant. A root bound plant will yellow prematurely simply because not enough nutrients are available to support growth.

Use Epsom Salts via foliar application. Magnesium is essential for chlorophyll synthesis.

Ensure proper air circulation and ventilation. Too high temperatures and/or too low Carbon Dioxide levels will cause premature yellowing.

Sincerely,
Charles.

p.s. If the yellowing is accompanied by wilt, you have a root zone problem; a pathogenic attack most likely caused by overwatering. If the yellowing is accompanied by necrosis or chlorosis, you have a micro-nutrient deficiency.

C.X.

 

[stinkfinger]

thank you for the helpful info charles. i will try a mild dose of nutes tomorrow.

 

[Suby]

Hey SF,

I never use peletized, it seems to cause pokets in the soil and I find the results less impressive that with the powdered form.
The FF soil line is very rich and should get your plants through a short veg periode without any def, how big are the plants and what size pots are they in??

If the dolomite is working then you will NOT need epsom salts, they are NOT organic and I never recommend them, they sometimes do more harm than good, also Kelp based fertilizer supply potassium and NOT nitrogen in sufficient amounts to make them an N fert.

Your plants might need a transplant or they might need a light feeding, in organics ph is not as important as with regular hydro nutes, it is important just not as much, 7 is still fine for vegging plants.

Get back to me on the plant and container size and get some pics if you can.

Suby

 

[Charles Xavier]

If the dolomite is working then you will NOT need epsom salts, they are NOT organic and I never recommend them, they sometimes do more harm than good, also Kelp based fertilizer supply potassium and NOT nitrogen in sufficient amounts to make them an N fert......Suby

Greetings Suby.

Dolomite contains Calcium; Calcium interferes with the uptake of Magnesium. For some strains enough Magnesium is uptaken with just Dolomite supplementation; for most, it is better to supply additional Magnesium independent of the Calcium source. Also, the plant needs higher levels of either at different stages of its life cycle.

Dolomite is as "organic" as Epsom Salt is; meaning neither are "organic". Both, however, are naturally occurring.

To be on the safe side, Epsom Salts should only be utilized via foliar application (as recommended). Any problems that arise from its use can be attributed to the promotion of too high a ppm level in a medium (overdose), or on the rare occasion, Sulphur toxicity. As a foliar spray, the potential of these problems are negated.

Kelp based fertilizers should be utilized via foliar application. In this way, there is more than sufficient Nitrogen available to be useful in combating slight Nitrogen deficiency. The main reason why foliar application is recommended, however, is due to the natural growth hormones that Kelp based fertilizers contain. These hormones can be antagonistic (in the short-term) to the root system.

With an established root ball, the application of a Kelp based fertilizer directly to the soil can be recommended. Partly because of its high Potassium content (in Cannabis, high Potassium is actually more important than high Phosphorus, for successful flower set) and partly because it promotes the proliferation of Nitogen fixing bacteria in soil. The presence of these 'beneficials' will ensure that enough Nitrogen is present for the plant to complete its life cycle, even when a switch is made to a low Nitrogen containing fertilizer for the flowering period.

Nutrient uptake is also accelerated, an important tool, when dealing with the 'stretch' that accompanies the introduction of the flowering photoperiod.

Sincerely,
Charles.

 

[Suby]

Hey CX,

The proportions in dolomite lime make it ideal for Ca and Mg which is why they do not lock each other up in those proportions, I agree that both forms are mined and thus relatively organic, my qualm with ES is the amount of processing that it undergoes during refinement whereas DL is as "pure" as mined organic elements get.

ES do not contain ANY N whatsoever, (MgSO4·7H2O) it does however briefly ease the uptake of N in the soil which means that if you are experience an N def that is related to a lack of solid source N in the soil your no better off than before.

I can't see how any type of kelp can be antagonistic to the rootzone and have never read any articles suggested this but I could be wrong, again if your missing N in your mix then it's simply not there, it merely aids with lockout.

I will agree that if you have a Mg def then foliar with ES is the way to go but a healthy starter mix is a safer bet then dosing low and relying on foliars, the sulphur content usually keeps me from using it at all, a rich compost tea applied as a foliar is usually a better option.

Different strokes for different growers I guess,

Peace
Suby

 

[Charles Xavier]

Greetings Suby.

Allow me a few points of clarification:

Calcium interferes with the uptake of Magnesium, period.

Dolomite contains an adequate proportion of Calcium and Magnesium, not an ideal one. Ideally, Calcium and Magnesium should be administered at different times and from different (independent) sources.

Neither Epsom Salts nor Dolomite is organic (or relatively organic). "Mined organic elements" is beyond oxymoronic; they simply do not exist.

Nowhere is it stated or implied that Epsom Salt contains Nitrogen. However, what may casually appear to some as Nitrogen deficiency, may be in actuality, a problem with chlorophyll synthesis due to lack of Magnesium (this is the reason why this recommendation was offered, but proffered lower on the list, in the first of my posts in this thread).

Root and shoot development is mainly controlled by a balance of two groups of hormones:auxins and cytokinins. The ratio of cytokinins to auxins in Kelp is disproportioned in favour of cytokinins. In the short term, an abundance of cytokinins result in the depression of auxins. Auxin depression results in retarded root development. In the long term, as the presence of cytokinins leads to greater numbers of apical (used loosely) shoots and new foliar growth, auxin production increases. This then results in a correction in root development. If a Kelp based fertilizer is added to the roots, this process is compounded due to increased hormone uptake. The process is further compounded if the application is made before an established root system is in place.

Sincerely,
Charles.

p.s. The advice shared was based entirely on the information given. The advice was intended to address the existing problem. Of couse if asked before the problem developed, that is, at the beginning of the grow, the advice would be different.

p.p.s. Different strokes for different growers may generally apply, but in a specific sense does little to address incidents of misconception. One either strives to possess a full comprehension of the science of cultivation, or one does not.

C.X.

 

[Suby]

Hey CX,

first off I NOT trying to pick a fight.
Second of all I do NOT pretend to have any education in this field.
I am completely self taught and I am totally open to criticism and debate, if you felt attacked by my comments or I have misinterpreted your posts then I apologize.
In this forum we post what we know and we sit around until we can learn more from each other and what works in our respective gardens.
We can't do that if we start disrespecting each other.
I am interested in what you have to say but it too fucking early and I have not had coffee

Peace
S

 

[Dignan]

In this forum we post what we know and we sit around until we can learn more from each other and what works in our respective gardens.

IMO you both are doing a damn fine job of it, too. Another very helpful exchange of ideas and knowledge right here. Muchas gracias!

 

[Blackvelvet]

Sprinkle 3/8 teaspoon on the surface per gallon of soil. Wait a week or more. Check ph again. Reapply if needed.

 

[B.C.]

FoxFarm soil...

FoxFarm soil...

I've used FF soil fer years and never had ta add lime? I wouldn't suggest it,why fix it if it aint broke? I'd transplant in staight FF cut with 25-30% perlite.No lime needed,and no nutes needed fer the first 2-3 weeks.This is one reason it's 20 smackers a bag.Good luck and take care..BC

 

[vonforne]

p.p.s. Different strokes for different growers may generally apply, but in a specific sense does little to address incidents of misconception. One either strives to possess a full comprehension of the science of cultivation, or one does not.

Most of us come to understand growing only after learning each step of the growing process. We come here to exchange ideas and to learn. Mostly through trial and error. Some methods might not be the choice of others. But until just a few years ago there were no information exchange.

What I'm saying, Charles, is to bear with us who are just hobby microbiologists.

At least we are not dumping harmful products into Mother Earth.

V

 

[Charles Xavier]

Greetings stinkfinger.

Allow me to extend my apology to you for the role I played, inadvertent or otherwise, in offsetting the focus of your thread. I further beg your indulgence in allowing me to respond formally to those others who have also taken a vested interest in this thread, in the hopes of regaining said focus.

Sincerely,
Charles.



Greetings Dignan.

Your role as potential mediator, is neither overlooked nor unappreciated. Your level headed approach and insight is well received, not only by myself, but also I believe, by the readers and participants of this thread. I am honoured and humbled by your support. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Charles.



Greetings vonforne.

Please allow me the opportunity to address what I believe is a misinterpretation of a section of my post. I fully understand that as individuals we walk separate paths; but as a community, all roads should lead to the same destination: to be the best cultivators that each of us can be, so that we may possess and share unbiased and accurate information.

We are cultivators; all experience is gained through trial and error. The hardest and therefore most valuable lessons are learned as the results of mistakes - our own, and those of others. As such we should be willing to admit mistakes in the hopes that others may also benefit from them; but the key is transparency. We should differentiate between when we know something, and when we are only speculating about it.

Speculation is only helpful if it is known to be just speculation; fact is helpful only if stated as such. And there should be an unconscious realization that the two may turn out to be the same, but at the moment of conception, are different.

You are a part of my community, vonforne, I am gratified to be a part of yours; it is a privilege to be allowed to exchange knowledge with you (or any other member). Like I've stated in another thread, that you are familiar with:

There is bound to be misinformation (misconception) in circulation in a field where information (and its sharing) is suppressed. By participating in these forums we all are playing a vital part in overgrowing the world.....C.X.

Sincerely,
Charles.

p.s. Blackvelvet and B.C., thank you for keeping the thread on topic.

C.X.

 

[Guest]

if you're worried about pH, always include in your soil a lot of compost. high organic matter content = high cation exchange capacity = good buffering action by your soil. just don't overdo it to the point where your roots rot ; )

 

[Verite]

 

[mysta177]

Stink...Hey bro you got some good peeps here to answer your Q's but you should post some more info like what are you growing,flower or veg,what size pot you in pics can be helpful also. just my 2cents.