Snype's RDWC Construction Tutorial For 250 Watts - 7,600 Watts!

[Stonefree69]

I actually found a better female adaptor that doesn't have an imprint on it at where my neoprene washer sits. That was the problem with the first one that I put in this thread earlier. I just have to update that model into this thread when I get a chance.

Was just going to post:

Carlon 1-1/2 in. Non-Metallic Terminal Adapter (male thread)
Model # E943HR-CTN Store SKU # 722480
$0.86 / each @ Home Deopt

NIBCO 1-1/2 in. PVC DWV Hub x SJ Trap Adapter (male thread, I think it's the female trap adapter you're talking about)
Model # C4801-7 Store SKU # 189855
$1.27 / each @ Home Depot

Carlon 1-1/2 in. Non-Metallic Female Adapter (female thread)
Model # E942HR $.93 @ Home Depot
.
.
CARLON E943H 1-1/2-IN PVC MALE ADAPTER $.52 @ www.codale.com

CARLON E942H 1-1/2-IN PVC FEMALE ADAPTER $.55 @ www.codale.com

Nice to know you can take system apart if ever needed, that's why I bet you also use unions.

The cheapest I've seen 1 1/2" washers outside your supplier Snype is $1.29 @ flexpvc.com (under BulkheadFittingsParts). I bet for under the cost of a Un iseal you can have a much more reliable fitting.

Sans PVC pipe one bulkhead could be as cheap as $.55 + $.52 + $.75 = $1.82.

 

[Snype]

Was just going to post:

Nice to know you can take system apart if ever needed, that's why I bet you also use unions.

The cheapest I've seen 1 1/2" washers outside your supplier Snype is $1.29 @ flexpvc.com (under BulkheadFittingsParts). I bet for under the cost of a Un iseal you can have a much more reliable fitting.

Sans PVC pipe one bulkhead could be as cheap as $.55 + $.52 + $.75 = $1.82.

I completely agree with you! It is much better to be able to take the system apart and not worry about the washer. My washer is still fine and may be better than the other one you listed but I don't know. I tested different hardness's in my original design and found the 50 durometer to work the best. The first 1000 washers sold at the store were 60 durometer and I used those since the beginning but you have to be more careful when you install those ones and that's why I got the 50 durometer made instead. Those new washers will be at the store in 8 days. I forgot to give the box to Snypette before she left today.

 

[Stonefree69]

I actually found a better female adaptor that doesn't have an imprint on it at where my neoprene washer sits. That was the problem with the first one that I put in this thread earlier. I just have to update that model into this thread when I get a chance.

Well Snype, my best guess is the Cantex 5140047C 1-1/2'' PVC Female Adapter that has no print on it to affect gaskets - 40 for $10 on ebay right now (25 cents each!):

That would replace the Carlon E942H female adapter you have pictured below. If you notice on the new Cantex adapters they have printing on slip connection side, not the female threaded side:

 

[Snype]

Well Snype, my best guess is the Cantex 5140047C 1-1/2'' PVC Female Adapter that has no print on it to affect gaskets - 40 for $10 on ebay right now (25 cents each!):

View Image

LOL! Yup those are the same ones that I found at a electrical supply house. When I told them I wanted 300 of them, the guy laughed at me and was like you have no idea what you are doing! LOL! I told him I know exactly what I'm doing! He had no idea what they were for but with the other electrical things that I bought like relays and panel boxes he put 2 and 2 together. What the hell do you have cooking up over there StoneFree69? LOL! I really hope that you are going to put something together! Now I know you tried out those other gaskets and you probably know that they work. Trust me, you don't pay what I pay. LOL! I pay less than 25 cents but I'm not stating the price! Anyway I can't wait to see what you have going on. If you need any help, just let me know!

 

[Stonefree69]

LOL! Yup those are the same ones that I found at a electrical supply house. When I told them I wanted 300 of them, the guy laughed at me and was like you have no idea what you are doing! LOL! I told him I know exactly what I'm doing! He had no idea what they were for but with the other electrical things that I bought like relays and panel boxes he put 2 and 2 together. What the hell do you have cooking up over there StoneFree69? LOL! I really hope that you are going to put something together! Now I know you tried out those other gaskets and you probably know that they work. Trust me, you don't pay what I pay. LOL! I pay less than 25 cents but I'm not stating the price! Anyway I can't wait to see what you have going on. If you need any help, just let me know!

Well since you make the gaskets that's a fair markup also considering they're still about 1/2 price compared to elsewhere.

Thanks much for your help. Maybe UC should say that, "what the hell we have cooking!"

That's odd, for the same model # adapters I seem to get 2 different versions of Cantex 5140047C Female Adapter. The 1 with wrong label end is 5140047 w/o the C at the end. Are they selling out the ones we have or are they the newer version with the label sides?:

 

[BlindDate]

You are having problems with the washer and fitting because they are not made to be used as a bulkhead fitting. I suggest you just buy bulkhead fittings or use Uniseals. Uniseals work great on curved surfaces and they are so simple to install, no fittings required. Make sure you lube them up with silicone grease first.

 

[Snype]

You are having problems with the washer and fitting because they are not made to be used as a bulkhead fitting. I suggest you just buy bulkhead fittings or use Uniseals. Uniseals work great on curved surfaces and they are so simple to install, no fittings required. Make sure you lube them up with silicone grease first.

View Image

There are no problems with the washers fitting. You are confused. Uniseals also suck. Try putting a uniseal on a 5 Gallon round bucket and see how bad it is when you try to put 12 buckets together. I used uniseals on square buckets and got rid of them so quick.

 

[Snype]

Some people had some questions for me in PM. For the record I just want to say that if you use 600's, you can set up my 12 plant system under 3 x 600's. You will want to grow the plants smaller though because you won't get the light penetration that I get with 1000's but it shouldn't be too bad with all the cross light from the multiple reflectors. I really hope some of you are going to document these grows or at least take a picture of set up systems. Don't be scared now!

 

[Stonefree69]

There are no problems with the washers fitting. You are confused. Uniseals also suck. Try putting a uniseal on a 5 Gallon round bucket and see how bad it is when you try to put 12 buckets together. I used uniseals on square buckets and got rid of them so quick.

In the water storage industry it seems bulkheads are the preferred method for reliability, like us need them where it counts. There are a lot of people that are happy with Uni-Seals though - I guess make sure they are not cheap knockoffs and made with DuPont Alcryn. They look like this & here's a Uni-Seal demo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjlH8JkUz0Q&feature=player_embedded :

 

[Stonefree69]

WOW this guy doing it like us and he don't care much for Uni-Seals:
Alternative to Uniseals for 2" pvc connections to IBC totes, plastic grow
[iframe1]44mHfMmICcI[/iframe1]

 

[Stonefree69]

Interesting, just found these O-Rings, many sizes from 1/4", 1/2", 3/4", 1", 1 1/2", 2", 3" and many in between. 50 1" ID Buna O-Rings are just $7.32 & 1 1/2" ID is $10.48 for 30 (35 cents each). They are 1 11/16" OD and 3/32" thick. Softer 50A Durometer like it says. Wonder if these would work.

To get that page up from the pic below for the webpage just go to amazon.com & search "o ring 1 inch inside diameter ID" under Industrial & Scientific:
.
.
.

 

[crackrocker]

Duo snype I've been reading and re reading. Question about the parts, I know nothing about PVC. What are the abbreviations like sfp msp or whatever sorry I can't remember them exactly. And some of them say slip. Don't know what that's referring to. Hey I'm not going to be the first one to build using these instructions am I? Lol.

 

[Snype]

Duo snype I've been reading and re reading. Question about the parts, I know nothing about PVC. What are the abbreviations like sfp msp or whatever sorry I can't remember them exactly. And some of them say slip. Don't know what that's referring to. Hey I'm not going to be the first one to build using these instructions am I? Lol.

Slip is slip which means no threads. The pieces slide in. If you don't know what the words mean, do a google search. You don't need to know what it means though. It's not important. I've put all the parts that you need and these systems have been being built for a while by many people. Somehow all the washers are sold out at the store and that's all from people on IC. I won't be able to get more washers to the store until maybe Tuesday or Wednesday. Good luck!

 

[Stonefree69]

Duo snype I've been reading and re reading. Question about the parts, I know nothing about PVC. What are the abbreviations like sfp msp or whatever sorry I can't remember them exactly. And some of them say slip. Don't know what that's referring to. Hey I'm not going to be the first one to build using these instructions am I? Lol.

Here's a good link describing the pvc connections & terms: What kind of fitting do I need? also if you want to match fittings: American Standard Pipe Scheduling

A lot also get confused with NPT, MPT & FPT (National, Male & Female Pipe Tapered threads). The T actually stands for "taper" not thread and it's NOT what we want to use to make a bulkhead fitting. It' pvc conduit for electrical applications. They have a straight not tapered thread which makes for a leak proof seal (tapered threads will leak).
.
.
.
Also when ordering your own gaskets for 1 1/2" pipe fittings the gasket ID (inside diameter) is 1 7/8" so it fits snugly on the 1 1/2" male pipe thread.

One thing for sure is I'm glad about Snype's suggestion to use electrical male & female pvc conduit adapters & washers/O-rings for bulkheads instead of Uni-Seals in any size. They are way cheaper ($.50-2.00 each for 1.5" depending on how many you want) & more reliable when done right and should last even longer. Oh and those gaskets that he provides are top notch and do have more rubber than those O-rings I have in above link.

 

[Snype]

Here's a good link describing the pvc connections & terms: What kind of fitting do I need?

A lot also get confused with NPT, MPT & FPT (National, Male & Female Pipe Tapered threads). The T actually stands for "taper" not thread and it's NOT what we want to use to make a bulkhead fitting. It' pvc conduit for electrical applications. They have a straight not tapered thread which makes for a leak proof seal (tapered threads will leak).
.
.
.
Also when ordering your own gaskets for 1 1/2" pipe fittings the gasket ID (inside diameter) is 1 7/8" so it fits snugly on the 1 1/2" male pipe thread.

One thing for sure is I'm glad about Snype's suggestion to use pvc conduit for bulkheads instead of Uni-Seals. They are way cheaper ($.50-2.00 each for 1.5" depending on how many you want) & more reliable when done right and should last even longer. Oh and those gaskets that he provides are top notch and do have more rubber than those O-rings I have in above link.

I wouldn't dare put a 1.5" uni-seal on a round bucket. LOL! The beauty about this system is that you can customize it to the specific room that you have. You guys can build the design how ever you want. The good thing is that I supplied my equations for how much air that you will need no matter what type of bucket that you guys choose to use as well as chlorine formulas and circulation formulas. I know some of you are hiding out over there with a ton of washers (LOL!) but I hope at least a few of you come back to show us what you did! Anyway, I have the last pictures and the final details to finish out this thread sometime next week Good luck to everyone!

 

[Stonefree69]

Cool link + video: Installing Bulkheads With gaskets/washers vs O-rings, seems O-rings are used more for higher pressure situations as the design pressure seals gaps. The scuba people like flat gaskets because more surface area is doing the sealing & can be easily repaired or made from spare material.
.
.
.
.

[iframe1]iMcgJiRIfEU[/iframe1]

 

[Stonefree69]

Well I've been reading up a whole lot about information on O-ring sizing & materials. The 3 major choices: neoprene (polychloroprene), Buna-N (nitrile-butadiene) or EPDM (ethylene propylene).

Snype here supplies the neoprene washers which are a great deal (I have some). Well I have all the tools and hardware now, just have to finish off my other room preps 1st. Thanks much again Snype, made a believer out of me.

If you are looking for O-rings for the size pipes here listed:

3/4" pipe.....#215 O-ring, 1 1/16" ID, 1 5/16 OD and 1/8" diameter
1" pipe.... #219 O-ring, 1 5/16" ID, 1 9/16 OD and 1/8" diameter
1 1/2" pipe. #328 O-ring, 1 7/8" ID, 2 1/4" OD and 3/16" diameter

Of the 3 choices for rubber, each have their advantages. Neoprene & EPDM are similar in cost but neoprene is more resistant somewhat to petroleum-based fuels (grease and oil ). Buna-N rubber wins on this point and is much more resistant than the other 2.

EPDM and Buna-N are more durable than neoprene and have much less water swell than neoprene (EPDM being best). That's why they use neoprene in wet suits for scuba, etc... because of neoprene's 'self healing" properties due to that water swell for small leaks.

As for "compression set" over time, EPDM is best while neoprene is not as durable and Buna-N is a close 2nd. EPDM's resistance to ozone, UV rays, temperature extremes and water make it an excellent choice for waterproof roofing membrane. I've seen EPDM rubber solar pool water heaters out in the Florida sun lasting over 20 years and still going strong. As long as there's no oil or grease you're golden. EPDM also good for potable water (used in Firestone or Dupont pond liners and yes that means durable w/20-25 year warranty).

Buna-N is the most common O-ring because it has the widest range of material handling properties.
.
.
.
That all said I like this person's advice and is very knowledgeable, to quote:

"Seeking o-ring "tip"

HMonk: I have a shallow-well pump that may benefit by a new o-ring - which is non-standard and had to be special ordered; the present o-ring is not effecting a very tight seal between the venturi and diffuser plate port.

In an attempt to temporarily get a better seal, I made a few turns of teflon tape in the o-ring groove thus forcing the o-ring a bit tighter against the port walls. My question is this: is there a commonly used "trick" to temporarily get an o-ring to effect a tighter fit. I might add that the existing o-ring appears to be in perfect condition; I guess its just lost some of its resiliency.

Nestor: No, so far as I know there is nothing you can do to temporarily increasing the sealing power of an O-ring other than to do something like what you've already done. You might try using a thick grease on the ID or OD of the O-ring to reduce leakage as well.

If you want to know more about O-rings, read on...

It's likely that the only thing non-standard about your O-ring is that the factory part is made out of EPDM rubber whereas places that sell seals and O-rings will typically only stock O-rings in nitrile rubber.

The O-ring may look perfect, but what's probably happened is something called "compression set". Basically, rubber compounds will flow under pressure and gradually change their shape. The result is that over the course of 10 to 15 years or so, your O-ring has transformed into an Oval-ring that doesn't exert the same pressure at it's ID and OD as it originally did, and that's what's causing the leak. The only good fix is to replace the O-ring.

Some rubber compounds have better compression set resistance than others, but nitrile (also called "buna-n") rubber which is by far the most common material O-rings are made of and EPDM rubber both have very good compression set resistance. Most places will only stock nitrile rubber O-rings. That's because Nitrile rubber is resistant to both water and hydrocarbon liquids (solvents, fuels and lubricants) so that it can be used in a very wide variety of applications, and it's good compression set resistance means you don't need to replace nitrile O-rings often.

But, if you were building a spacecraft where performance was the ONLY factor you were looking at, then EPDM rubber is actually better for applications involving water. EPDM has a little better water resistance than nitrile rubber, and my understanding is that it's compression set resistance is a little higher as well. So, if it's expensive or a hassle to replace this O-ring, then it'd be wiser to use an EPDM rubber O-ring that will cost about 10 times as much as a nitrile O-ring simply because it's a special order item.

O-rings come in standard sizes that are identified by a three digit AS568 Number, so if you can measure the inside and cross sectional diameters of your O-ring with a caliper, you can use the chart on this web site to determine it's size: O-Rings West... and knowing that three digit size number you can buy an O-ring of the same size in nitrile rubber or order one in EPDM rubber from any place that sells O-rings in your area.

O-rings come in different hardness as well. The harder the rubber the O-ring is made of, the higher the "durometer number" of the O-ring. O-rings typically come in 60, 70 and 90 durometer, but 70 durometer is the standard used for O-rings in plumbing applications."
.
.
.
Nestor above says EPDM is more expensive, that's because in that case it's a special part order that is normally Buna-N in stock. From amazon's O-ring price list EPDM actually seems a bit less expensive for same size & quantities of O-rings.

Hope this helps anyone here planning to build Snype's system. Like I said I got his 1 3/4" ID washers for the 1 1/2" bulkheads but needed other sizes. Lowes had some decent size O-rings as well (not Home Depot), were about $.70-.90 for 2 of 3/4" & 1" bulkhead sizes. Believe me, it's not rocket science but brilliant nonetheless.

 

[Stonefree69]

Another thing on attaching washers, gaskets or O-rings: you want to put the washer or O-ring on the male threaded adapter like Snype says. It forms a better seal than on the female adapter because it has a ridge on which the washer can seat itself and seal. Even true if you get an already assembled bulkhead too. The water has an easier chance to work it's way through on the female adapter.

Also it doesn't really matter which side the male thread goes in, in aquariums some people put the male thread adapter from the inside of the fish tank. For convenience Snype has the male thread adapters on the outside connecting 2 buckets with 1 piece.

I say this in case your going with other pipe sizes and bulkheads like 3/4" or 1" or whatever. But Snype got it right, washers on male threads. If done right you don't really need a washer on the female side, unless Snype has found another reason for this. IOW you can save a washer for each bucket. I won't disagree w/2 washers per bulkhead, as those Mur-lok 1/4" tubing compression connectors do this and they are premium connectors. It could add some redundancy as well.

 

[Stonefree69]

These Cantex 1 1/2" male adapters seem to have a wider ridge for the washers to work than the ones I have (same part # 5140107). I think mine may be the older version as what's on their website the 2" and up male adapters have the narrower ridge like mine. BTW the ridge measures 1/8" inch wide for mine (2nd pic). One aquarium expert said using 2-4" adapters like that (PVC conduit) some could pose a problem for o-rings w/a narrow ridge. I'll report soon if mine fit or not. Since Snype's male adapter seems to have a similar ridge as mine I should be OK, I'm using Snype's washers.

They are quality but pretty cheap on ebay, right now 30 for $20 & free economy shipping. Usually a deal is always there or usually.

Here's a link: Cantex male adapter fittings
.
.
.
Here's what "newer" Cantex 5140107 male adapters look like (+ sold on ebay mostly):

.
.
.
Here's what my Cantex 5140107 adapters look like
(it's a pic of their 2" adapter so the ridge looks smaller):

.
.
Snype's 1.5" Male PVC Trap Adapter (Nibco) as on page 1:

 

[HOVAH2.0]

I used 3/4 inch pvc to connect my buckets together ,will this be enough of a passage way for undercurrent use??