Smart Meters - a few common misconceptions cleared up here.

[ItGrows]

I already stated previously I will NOT disclose my exact source of information although I hinted quiet a bit of it.

Is that clear enough for you!?

Take it for what it is, or don't.

Now that sounds like something my government would say. You just have to take my word for it... LOL

 

[Strainhunter]

Now that sounds like something my government would say. You just have to take my word for it... LOL

Don't like it?

Don't take it for what it is.

Just stay safe, that's all what it really boils down to.

 

[poindexterous]

Good way of thinking although not how they do it.

First of all keep in mind it depends on who your electricity provider is.
Although I may have listed one or the other throughout this thread that does not mean they have not changed their policy.

Specifically in Florida there is @ least one electric provider who is "in bed" with the administration in charge of pursuing growing pot.
That company is actively participating in training exercises how to recognize "unusual" power consumption.
The above is valid as of today.

Now what does this have to do with your question?

If you are running a 4kw setup you are going through anywhere between a few hundred bucks in electricity a month up to 7 or 800 dollars (assuming 1kw costs the rough average of 11 cents/hour, much higher in Cali for example).
All depending on if your hoods are vented or not, if you have an AC & how much it is running, whether you have a dehumidifier - or not.
Those are the major power users.

Every time especially an inductive electricity user turns on you will have a power spike. Whether that be your fridge, your dish washer, your water heater, your TV, your house AC etc. blah blah.

If you are running 2kw on one set of bulbs for 12 hours and switch to another set after 12 hours...you still will have a spike firing up that second set of bulbs.
That spike will be xyz high depending on the ballasts (magnetic or not) and their efficiency, the wattage of the bulbs used and a few more factors.
In other words (and I am sure you have realized that yourself by now) what ever spikes your grow is creating they will be a very minor "giveaway" for your growing operation.

Your "12 hour cycle" is being "interrupted" by PLENTY spikes throughout the day and night.

On the good side:
You have been running your set-up without getting caught hence you have been paying your bill so just keep doing the same thing Smart Meter or not.
Depending on the type of Smart Meter you are going to get it might not even be programmed to be one of those "tricked out" units causing the electricity user "letting his pants down" about his/her usage.

Not that you have much of a choice in first place.....

What have you heard are the signs they look for to profile suspicious consumption? Is it entirely just total volume, or any other patterns, hours, etc?

I'm getting the kind of smart meter where I can go to their website and see "hourly" use.

 

[Strainhunter]

What have you heard are the signs they look for to profile suspicious consumption? Is it entirely just total volume, or any other patterns, hours, etc?

I'm getting the kind of smart meter where I can go to their website and see "hourly" use.

No no it's not just "hearsay".

These are actual facts.

However it simply has to be taken for granted what I stated.
I will not disclose certain info about where I know this stuff from potentially leading to compromising my (previous) association with that place.

To answer your actual question:

"profile suspicious consumption" - I like how you boiled it down to that phrase!

But please realize I cannot speak for an entire country or even globally regarding how it is/can be done.

Some electricity providers don't do squat, no matter how much you burn through, Smart Meter or not.

Others have full fledged investigation teams (& software) who's full time job it is to look for those "profile suspicious consumptions" which MIGHT include patterns such as "total volume, or any other patterns, hours, etc."

You just won't know UNLESS you have specific knowledge from/about YOUR specific provider which keep in mind might change @ any given time.

Like another established IC member in this thread already posted some time back:

His brother works (or worked?) for a provider who just doesn't care...as long as you pay your bill!

 

[ItGrows]

My power company asked the government for stimulus money so they could put these things in. I doubt it has anything to do with tracking suspicious consumption. I think it has everything to do with getting free money to upgrade a old system. The government has easier ways of tracking our secrets. I think if you are a "big time op" that is worried about being tracked this way. Just keep moving your grow to new rentals.

 

[qupee]

No no it's not just "hearsay".

These are actual facts.

However it simply has to be taken for granted what I stated.
I will not disclose certain info about where I know this stuff from potentially leading to compromising my (previous) association with that place.

To answer your actual question:

"profile suspicious consumption" - I like how you boiled it down to that phrase!

But please realize I cannot speak for an entire country or even globally regarding how it is/can be done.

Some electricity providers don't do squat, no matter how much you burn through, Smart Meter or not.

Others have full fledged investigation teams (& software) who's full time job it is to look for those "profile suspicious consumptions" which MIGHT include patterns such as "total volume, or any other patterns, hours, etc."

You just won't know UNLESS you have specific knowledge from/about YOUR specific provider which keep in mind might change @ any given time.

Like another established IC member in this thread already posted some time back:

His brother works (or worked?) for a provider who just doesn't care...as long as you pay your bill!

You're not really giving us much useful information here.

Spikes are 100% completely irrelevant and excessive usage is the flag raiser. Great, but how does that leave me any better informed than I was prior to reading this thread?

If you have such specific inside information, why don't you explain in exacting detail exactly what constitutes excessive usage?

Every provider is different. So what. Give us some specific examples, especially since you're claiming to be in the know regarding at least one electric provider.

 

[Strainhunter]

You're not really giving us much useful information here.

Spikes are 100% completely irrelevant and excessive usage is the flag raiser. Great, but how does that leave me any better informed than I was prior to reading this thread?

If you have such specific inside information, why don't you explain in exacting detail exactly what constitutes excessive usage?

Every provider is different. So what. Give us some specific examples, especially since you're claiming to be in the know regarding at least one electric provider.

You are missing the entire concept of the original post.


It is intended as a general guide of what's possible with Smart Meters and what is rather a myth:

specifically the use of Flip Flops NOT providing the often marketed and believed "safety feature" of avoiding the detection of spikes.



If you want a specific example for YOUR situation go right ahead and post who your electricity provider is and a non distorted close up picture of YOUR Smart Meter showing the serial number and I should be able to tell you more within 2 business days.
(no, please DO NOT do this under any circumstances, you will compromise your own identity and neither would it be TOU conform to do that!)

I think you get my point now, see the first part of this post:

As I already wrote this thread is intended as a general guide of what's possible with Smart Meters and what is rather a myth, I thought that would be pretty clear...but apparently to some it is not.

Variations to your own situation will apply.

 

[qupee]

ok ya, OP was about what Smart Meters can and cannot do... but if you have any knowledge of how any particular provider profiles, please please share for all our benefit.

My provider is Xcel. I don't have a smart meter (not that i'd post the serial, lol).

But really, any knowledge if they profile based on sudden jumps - maybe correlated with a new account holder at the address. Or being some factor above an average for similar sized houses, or houses on the same block.

There was a well known law in BC that allowed the city to search any house using more than 93kwh per month:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-ops-halted-for-another-month/article1882262/

Reading that raises many questions as to how my local system might operate. Like I was asking, is there a hard limit, or do we know how they perform comparisons to make unusual consumption stand out? Do we know of any providers that have procedures in place to regularly generate such reports and transmit them to enforcement agencies? Or like mentioned in that article do we know if it is on the agencies to request the information? Etc, etc.

Perhaps not totally on topic for the thread, but if you know, please share.

 

[poindexterous]

Alright I'm gonna start a new thread on this topic.......

 

[DutchBoy]

Thanks for the info, everywhere and everyone is just seemingly trying to scare.

I found this informative.

 

[Strainhunter]

.....

But really, any knowledge if they profile based on sudden jumps - maybe correlated with a new account holder at the address. Or being some factor above an average for similar sized houses, or houses on the same block.

There was a well known law in BC that allowed the city to search any house using more than 93kwh per month:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-ops-halted-for-another-month/article1882262/

Reading that raises many questions as to how my local system might operate. Like I was asking, is there a hard limit, or do we know how they perform comparisons to make unusual consumption stand out? Do we know of any providers that have procedures in place to regularly generate such reports and transmit them to enforcement agencies? Or like mentioned in that article do we know if it is on the agencies to request the information? Etc, etc.

Perhaps not totally on topic for the thread, but if you know, please share.

Since you are in BC, Canada (hence outside the US) I cannot help you with that specific company.

I don't even live in the US anymore, just currently visiting here after I did my last harvest where I live.
And I cannot and WILL NOT take any PM's containing personal info of IC members. That's just in general, not pointing @ you.

There is such a great variety how electricity providers handle their stuff...it is really quiet impossible to cover things and especially KEEPING them up to date!

profile based sudden jumps - maybe correlated with a new account holder at the address

Now the above certainly DOES raise a red flag.
(or just read in the original post what I wrote about myself when my Dad was sick).

Think about it!

Address: 420 Budstreet in Purple Haze 42042

Average usage last occupant: 600kw/h month (20kw/h day)

NEW average usage new occupant: 3,840kw/h month (128kw/h day)
(that's the previous 600kw/h plus a 4kw grow plus 2kw extra for fans and AC, all that in 18/6)

Now if you were working for Snitchpower Electric Co. and the new occupants electricity bill were to jump over 6 fold...wouldn't you @ least think something's not right there?

Maybe even a grow?


See...that's how shit hitting the fan starts. It is raising a red flag, you're above the radar now.

 

[qupee]

fyi I'm not in BC just using that as a well known example. I'm in the US, billed by Xcel Energy. I'd prefer not to mention what state, but it's in the midwest, and closer to Canada than Mexico.

Also, what your saying right now is totally common sense. I can think about that and figure that if I 6x'd the usage from the previous owner it would probably be noticeable.

But I was really hoping for more verified info. Like, "my bro works for xyz elec, and their profiling will list you if you're in the top 5% for total consumption for houses in your size range, and ranges are 1000-1500, 1501-2000, 2001-3000, 3001-5000, but if you're not more than double the mean or more than 50% higher than the any month in the last 3 years with an average temp +/- 2*F for the same address than you're not on the list" or whatever

Again, saying quadrupling the avg use for the address might raise a flag is like saying if I piss on my plants to give them N they might develop deficiencies.

Or do you just not have any specific knowledge like that? It seems so hard to come by.


Also, even anecdotal evidence on power co's would be helpful. We probably all figure if you're on PG&E to just pay your bill and quit worrying is fairly safe under $1k/month, and if you're in Florida you better be growing for pers only with cfl's or led's. But, for example, I google a LOT to try and find busts mentioning electricity use in areas covered by Xcel Energy, and can't find them. But I don't know if it's cause they don't hit the news or they don't happen. I can go and read about my state's drug task force, who works in it an about several of their busts for the year. Good stuff like we got a tip, GPS tracked this dude going to CA for 1 hour and coming back so we popped him on the interstate and intercepted 100 lbs of mexi brick" etc. etc. etc., but next to nothing on grows (except big gang related or public land stuff).

If a bunch of folks were like "hey my elec co is abc elec and I'm in a 2000 sq ft house. I run 2kw flower, about 3kw all together. My bill's around $275 and I've been doing this for 5 years in the same spot no issues." that can build a good picture if enough people volunteer info like that (lol, and I totally get how unwilling most of us probably are to share that much, but really - that seems awfully innocuous.

 

[Strainhunter]

...

Or do you just not have any specific knowledge like that? It seems so hard to come by.

.......

I don't about all of them and yes it IS hard to come by.

I might be able to get one or the other though but that doesn't mean they won't be changing the next day, they do that all the time.

FP&L in Florida only acts based on subpoenas.

LCEC has automated programs AND trained personnel and they are "in bed" with the authorities. The last probably rather because so many foreign nationals of a certain kind being known (AND caught) for stealing power where LCEC is providing power which is a relatively small area, especially if compared to where FP&L is active.

 

[Strainhunter]

On another note LCEC has only the fully tricked out kind Smart Meters.

FP&L has everything from plain old manually read analog meters to the fully tricked out ones.

 

[Strainhunter]

Here's a little article about FP&L.

Maybe you can find one for your company!?




FPL says it doesn’t tip police to marijuana grow houses

by: Linda Trischitta December 10th, 2010 | 6:00 AM


Boynton Beach Police, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration and the Indian River County Sheriff’s Office busted a hydroponic marijuana grow operation in a Fellsmere home and seized more than 300 plants worth nearly half a million dollars if sold on the street, officials said.

Several more pounds of marijuana and weapons were also seized from a house on the Intracoastal in Boynton Beach, according to police.

The three month-long investigation led to the arrest of Jerome Albanese, 48, of Boynton Beach. The Fellsmere grow house was modified with 24-hour high intensity lighting, numerous air conditioning and dehumidifier units and timers, police said.
Albanese was charged by the Indain River Sheriff with cultivation of marijuana and trafficking in marijuana plants and is free on bond, officials said.
When another grow house bust was recently in the news, a reader asked, does the electric company tip off law enforcement?
When it comes to Florida Power & Light, which is one of the providers in the area of the grow house shown above, a spokesman says no, it doesn’t release information on its clients, unless the utility is served with a subpoena.

More than 300 marijuana plants police say were seized from a Fellsmere home that are worth an estimated $500,000 if sold on the street. Photo: Boynton Beach Police.

 

[Strainhunter]

Here is another one, this time LCEC:



Tip from LCEC leads to grow house bust

$364,000 worth of marijuana confiscated

February 4, 2009

Lehigh Acres Citizen
Save |
Deputies investigating a report of an illegal power connection discovered $364,000 in marijuana in a "grow house" in North Fort Myers.
Lee County Sheriff's Office Deputies from Alpha District (north) received a call for service at 12181 Old Rodeo Drive. The call was placed by personnel from the Lee County Electric Cooperative (LCEC) regarding an unauthorized connection at this location. The deputies were requested to standby while power was disconnected from the house. At the scene, deputies discovered some modifications to the property, including a large detached garage building with six brand-new air conditioners hidden in the palmetto bushes behind the building. Deputies also noted a strong odor of marijuana emanating from within the building.
Narcotics detectives were summoned to the scene to assume the investigation. Detectives wrote and executed a search warrant on the residence.
Inside the building, detectives located numerous large marijuana plants in three separate (divided) rooms. Detectives also observed several inside air conditioners, power transformers and other equipment used to cultivate marijuana. Detectives located a total of 91 large mature marijuana plants. The marijuana plants have an estimated street value of $364,000.00 dollars. This investigation is an active and ongoing case at this time.
Source: Lee County Sheriff's Office

 

[qupee]

Here's a little article about FP&L.

Maybe you can find one for your company!?

I haven't yet, despite spending a truly obscene amount of time searching.

If I google "does FP&L tip police" I get that article first hit. I've tried lots of searches on Xcel, and the best I get is some more internal looking pdf's that seem to imply they only disclose info to subpeona's, but it's far from clear.

A big report on Smart Meters from Xcel debates in it the tension between privacy and 3rd party billing info not having an expectation of privacy. They don't solidly answer or state their position, other than to say they should ensure privacy is addressed from the beginning in relation to smart meter data. On the other hand, they seem to say it would be readily available to agencies with the appropriate paperwork (and possibly sold to, say, insurance adjusters).

 

[Strainhunter]

Try this: "xcel marijuana bust electricity"

I am going to be offline shortly for a while, see what you can find. A quick search looked promising!

And yeah...them selling info...now that's f*ed up stuff!

I haven't yet, despite spending a truly obscene amount of time searching.

If I google "does FP&L tip police" I get that article first hit. I've tried lots of searches on Xcel, and the best I get is some more internal looking pdf's that seem to imply they only disclose info to subpeona's, but it's far from clear.
.....

 

[Guest 18340]

Here is another one, this time LCEC:



Tip from LCEC leads to grow house bust

$364,000 worth of marijuana confiscated

February 4, 2009

Lehigh Acres Citizen
Save |
Deputies investigating a report of an illegal power connection discovered $364,000 in marijuana in a "grow house" in North Fort Myers.
Lee County Sheriff's Office Deputies from Alpha District (north) received a call for service at 12181 Old Rodeo Drive. The call was placed by personnel from the Lee County Electric Cooperative (LCEC) regarding an unauthorized connection at this location. The deputies were requested to standby while power was disconnected from the house. At the scene, deputies discovered some modifications to the property, including a large detached garage building with six brand-new air conditioners hidden in the palmetto bushes behind the building. Deputies also noted a strong odor of marijuana emanating from within the building.
Narcotics detectives were summoned to the scene to assume the investigation. Detectives wrote and executed a search warrant on the residence.
Inside the building, detectives located numerous large marijuana plants in three separate (divided) rooms. Detectives also observed several inside air conditioners, power transformers and other equipment used to cultivate marijuana. Detectives located a total of 91 large mature marijuana plants. The marijuana plants have an estimated street value of $364,000.00 dollars. This investigation is an active and ongoing case at this time.
Source: Lee County Sheriff's Office

That's what happens when you steal electricity...

 

[Strainhunter]

That's what happens when you steal electricity...

Which is a very common thing they do there, probably rather to maximize their profit than to hide their actions.

The tricked out kind Smart Meter can and does read the "backflow of negative ions" hence there goes the stealing of power......


They should have read this thread!