Silly newbie question concerning nutrient ratios.

[singlecoiled]

Hi all, Ive been reading a LOT lately, not just Cannabis forums but also expert gardening articles. In my current grow, Ive decided to stop using bloom nutrients and will go the entire grow using something in the 3-1-2 neighborhood....

So, my nutrient line is Dynagrow, (I'll be shelfing the Mag Pro, Bloom, and sticking with Protekt and Foliage Pro only. Foliage Pro lists the numbers as 9-3-6 which divided by 3 = 3-1-2. My question is how they come up with these numbers. Why not just call it 3-1-2? Is it per gallon or something ? (I told you it was a silly question)

In my current grow, I just entered flower and things are taking a bad turn mixing Bloom and Foliage pro, nothing too serious yet, but I know its going to get bad fast. So, straight Foliage Pro it is...(With Protekt used to PH the water)

Here is an article I happened upon tonight talking about Phosphorous and its over useage. Seems to me that if this is true, bloom nutrients are way too high in Phosphorous to do any good... What really f's with my head is all the feed charts and successful growers that are using high PK (Bloom Nutes)... It just doesnt make sense.

Bloom Booster – Fertilizer Nonsense #5


Thanks !

 

[Dime]

NPK Example :10/10/10
a 100-pounds of 10/10/10 contains ten pounds of nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium,the other 70lbs is filler.P will burn your plants ,always go on the low side when you fertilize

 

[singlecoiled]

NPK Example :10/10/10
a 100-pounds of 10/10/10 contains ten pounds of nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium,the other 70lbs is filler.P will burn your plants ,always go on the low side when you fertilize

Thanks, I figured it was something like this. I'll be keeping this grow simple 9-3-6 the whole way through to see what happens without bloom nutrients. My plant is looking very green now, maybe a bit too green? 1.5 weeks into flower, feeding around 2.5 ml Foliage Pro per gallon every watering. PPM's out around 650.

I didnt like the leaf tips pointing down so I gave her a flush pulling PPM's down from almost 1500 to 650...Hoping this gets her perky, we'll see...Also fed 2.5 ml Foliage Pro. Temperature 64 lights on, 62 off. Humidity 35-50%

A day later after flushing with 5 gallons of water, the PPM's seemed very high. I was pleasantly surprised to see the leaves perking up greatly.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Hi all, Ive been reading a LOT lately, not just Cannabis forums but also expert gardening articles. In my current grow, Ive decided to stop using bloom nutrients and will go the entire grow using something in the 3-1-2 neighborhood....

So, my nutrient line is Dynagrow, (I'll be shelfing the Mag Pro, Bloom, and sticking with Protekt and Foliage Pro only. Foliage Pro lists the numbers as 9-3-6 which divided by 3 = 3-1-2. My question is how they come up with these numbers. Why not just call it 3-1-2? Is it per gallon or something ? (I told you it was a silly question)

In my current grow, I just entered flower and things are taking a bad turn mixing Bloom and Foliage pro, nothing too serious yet, but I know its going to get bad fast. So, straight Foliage Pro it is...(With Protekt used to PH the water)

Here is an article I happened upon tonight talking about Phosphorous and its over useage. Seems to me that if this is true, bloom nutrients are way too high in Phosphorous to do any good... What really f's with my head is all the feed charts and successful growers that are using high PK (Bloom Nutes)... It just doesnt make sense.

Bloom Booster – Fertilizer Nonsense #5


Thanks !

What I've been preaching for years. I also frequently recommend a 3-1-2 NPK. It's balanced with plenty of P to support flowering. I have a 25# bag of Peters High Performance 25-5-15 in my tool box. That would be a 5-1-3 which citrus loves for example. Then there's my Osmocote 15-9-12 that I'm giving my garden, see my link.

This conventional stuff falls on deaf ears to those who have succumbed to the cannabis forum and vendor brainwashing.

Feeding During Stretch

So, my experience is heavily weighted on super soils and indica doms.. always seemed to grow for others' preferences. Now, I am going to focus on sativa strains just for my own medicine. My plan is to employ small container root restriction to minimize stretch then up-pot post stretch. I will...

www.icmag.com

Used Dyna-Gro for decades. The Foliage Pro, 9-3-6 is excellent for all mediums - organic soils, soilless, water culture. I also use it as a foliar spray in my vineyard using a tractor PTO driven blaster.

Ditty I wrote many years ago:
The never ending abuse of Phosphorous to enhance flowering

A common mistake for growers when they reach the flowering stage is to start hitting the plants with a high P fert like a 10‑50‑10, continuing to use this blend exclusively, and when their plants start experiencing a deficit of N, Ca, Mg or micros as reflected by the dropping of lower leaves and chlorosis, they wonder why. Plants flower as a response to long nights (or chronological age if equatorial), not because of food blends high in P (or K). A ratio of 10‑30‑10 is WAY too high in P. The plant will only take what it needs and compete for other elements that may be more important at the time.

You may have heard that too much N can inhibit flowering. No question about it, exclusive use of a plant food that is rich in N such as blood meal, a 5‑1‑1 blend, or ammonium nitrate/sulfate may inhibit flowering especially if the phosphorous level is low, but most balanced blends have sufficient amount of P to do the job. The question is ‑ "how much P is enough to support a good flowering response and still retain my leaves?"

Manufacturers/horticulturists will give you element analysis and what effect the elements have on plant growth, but remember this does not necessarily mean you will get better yields. Using a high P fert exclusively during flowering can actually work against you due to impending leaf drop. It's an abundant amount of healthy leaves going into 12/12 and maintaining their health until harvest that produces a lot of bud, not high P, or low N foods.

I rotate fertilizer blends as the plant *requires* them, not because it is "the thing to do." For example, when your plants are going thru the stretch phase during early flowering, they may need more N, especially if you're getting some yellowing in the lower leaves. Give up the cannabis paradigms and give them what they need. You may want to return to a mild high P fert when the stretch ends, maintaining the foliage in a healthy state of growth until harvest for maximum yields. A 1‑3‑2 blend such as Peter's Pro Blossom Booster, 10‑30‑20, is a good choice because of several factors ‑ it is higher in nitrate N and Mg and has a good micro package. It is sold under the Jack's Classic label.

There are many foods I stock in my toolbox. Dyna-Gro is another excellent brand. I use a lot of their Foliage Pro - 9-3-6.

Stay away from cannabis specific foods. They market unsuspecting newbies who don’t yet have a handle on plant nutrition and soil chemistry.

Uncle Ben

Less is more,
Uncle Ben

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

I didnt like the leaf tips pointing down so I gave her a flush pulling PPM's down from almost 1500 to 650...Hoping this gets her perky, we'll see...Also fed 2.5 ml Foliage Pro. Temperature 64 lights on, 62 off. Humidity 35-50%

View attachment 18947164

Your plants look great, very healthy and there's no such thing as "too green". Again, DG is a great fertilizer. Folks need to learn the function of a leaf and that includes how important chlorophyll (green) plays into photosynthesis process.

Folks get worked up about leaf margin tips tipping down. Nothing wrong with that cause the leaves are functional and doing what they are supposed to do - manufacture carbos. Now, if the leaves were mottled, wrinkled, necrotic and look like hell warmed over due to the wrong and excess use of nutes, then yes, you've got problems.

Green - this 2004 DARK green Trainwreck X SweetTooth 2' main cola produced some fine bud top to bottom too. Needless to say, I don't belong to the Generation X Defoliation Herd.

42 and 44 days into 12/12 respectively:

Recommend a higher day temp for the most vigor, say, 82 days and your 62F night. It's that wide temp differential day/night that all plants do best under.

Uncle Ben

 

[Dime]

Here's a fert regiment for 3 part if anyone needs it that works well. The pics are a photo strain that can be huddled tightly for limited space and produce good yield and remain short ,little to no branching and I keep them green too and stop feeding the last cple weeks or so.BLD doesn't need much fert or light.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Here's a fert regiment for 3 part if anyone needs it that works well. The pics are a photo strain that can be huddled tightly for limited space and produce good yield and remain short ,little to no branching and I keep them green too and stop feeding the last cple weeks or so.BLD doesn't need much fert or light.

What's the actual NPK and micros analysis? That's all that matters to me.

 

[Dime]

What's the actual NPK and micros analysis? That's all that matters to me.

It's for gh 3 part, I don't think there is any better. When I started the police watched the hydroponic stores so you couldn't go often so I ordered the salts in 50lb bags and mixed my own.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

It's for gh 3 part, I don't think there is any better. When I started the police watched the hydroponic stores so you couldn't go often so I ordered the salts in 50lb bags and mixed my own.

There has got to be better. You're really light on the foliage.

 

[Dime]

There has got to be better. You're really light on the foliage.

It may be the picture from my phone. In person they are green ,i just took another shot out of the light.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

It may be the picture from my phone. In person they are green ,i just took another shot out of the light.

Light meaning there's not much foliage.

 

[singlecoiled]

What I've been preaching for years. I also frequently recommend a 3-1-2 NPK. It's balanced with plenty of P to support flowering. I have a 25# bag of Peters High Performance 25-5-15 in my tool box. That would be a 5-1-3 which citrus loves for example. Then there's my Osmocote 15-9-12 that I'm giving my garden, see my link.

Nice ! Yep, my constant googling and research lead me to many of your threads across the internet. I've learned a lot from you and many other garderners. Your not alone, even the presisdent of Dynagrow admits that bloom nutrients are not neccesaary. I try to avoid following the mindless sheep that simply follow without questioning. Oddly, I've found gardeners provide better information than most cannabis growers...

This conventional stuff falls on deaf ears to those who have succumbed to the cannabis forum and vendor brainwashing.

Feeding During Stretch

So, my experience is heavily weighted on super soils and indica doms.. always seemed to grow for others' preferences. Now, I am going to focus on sativa strains just for my own medicine. My plan is to employ small container root restriction to minimize stretch then up-pot post stretch. I will...

www.icmag.com

Used Dyna-Gro for decades. The Foliage Pro, 9-3-6 is excellent for all mediums - organic soils, soilless, water culture. I also use it as a foliar spray in my vineyard using a tractor PTO driven blaster.

Yep, Loving the Foliage Pro. I'm feeding every watering at around 2.5 ML per gallon. (around twice per week) I do give a plain watering from time to time if and water to 20% runoff. Let me know if I'm far off, I know its different depending on many variables... (forgot to mention I have a pet rabbit and use the manure. It's pretty strong stuff and Ive needed very little nutrients up till now)

Ditty I wrote many years ago:
The never ending abuse of Phosphorous to enhance flowering

A common mistake for growers when they reach the flowering stage is to start hitting the plants with a high P fert like a 10‑50‑10, continuing to use this blend exclusively, and when their plants start experiencing a deficit of N, Ca, Mg or micros as reflected by the dropping of lower leaves and chlorosis, they wonder why. Plants flower as a response to long nights (or chronological age if equatorial), not because of food blends high in P (or K). A ratio of 10‑30‑10 is WAY too high in P. The plant will only take what it needs and compete for other elements that may be more important at the time.

Lol,. Yep my first few grows were a mess using Fox Farm Open Sesame,(5-45-19) along side Bloom nutrients. It didnt go well ! I'm learning.

You may have heard that too much N can inhibit flowering. No question about it, exclusive use of a plant food that is rich in N such as blood meal, a 5‑1‑1 blend, or ammonium nitrate/sulfate may inhibit flowering especially if the phosphorous level is low, but most balanced blends have sufficient amount of P to do the job. The question is ‑ "how much P is enough to support a good flowering response and still retain my leaves?"

You read my mind, yes, I have been concerned that Foliage Pro might have too much Nitrogen during flower. But 3-1-2 isnt that high of a level of Nitrogen when you really think about it? Anyway, we'll see how it goes with my current grow.

Manufacturers/horticulturists will give you element analysis and what effect the elements have on plant growth, but remember this does not necessarily mean you will get better yields. Using a high P fert exclusively during flowering can actually work against you due to impending leaf drop. It's an abundant amount of healthy leaves going into 12/12 and maintaining their health until harvest that produces a lot of bud, not high P, or low N foods.

I rotate fertilizer blends as the plant *requires* them, not because it is "the thing to do." For example, when your plants are going thru the stretch phase during early flowering, they may need more N, especially if you're getting some yellowing in the lower leaves. Give up the cannabis paradigms and give them what they need. You may want to return to a mild high P fert when the stretch ends, maintaining the foliage in a healthy state of growth until harvest for maximum yields. A 1‑3‑2 blend such as Peter's Pro Blossom Booster, 10‑30‑20, is a good choice because of several factors ‑ it is higher in nitrate N and Mg and has a good micro package. It is sold under the Jack's Classic label.

Interesting. Out of curiosity have you ever grown an entire plant with Foliage Pro alone? I'll be honest that I'll miss the Mag Pro... Ive found that very small doses of Mag Pro make a huge difference. Maybe the sulfur? One or two days after applying Mag Pro my plants odor kicks into over drive, so something is happening there...Yes, I have teaspoons that go down to 1/64th tsp ! (and I use them)

Thanks Uncle Ben, Im a big fan and appreciate your no BS approach to growing. Really appreciate it !

Link to my Foliage Pro grow (Nirvana Northern Lights)

Foliage Pro Grow

There are many foods I stock in my toolbox. Dyna-Gro is another excellent brand. I use a lot of their Foliage Pro - 9-3-6.

Stay away from cannabis specific foods. They market unsuspecting newbies who don’t yet have a handle on plant nutrition and soil chemistry.

Uncle Ben

Less is more,
Uncle Ben

 

[Dime]

Oh sorry Ben lol.My brain is sometimes light too.

 

[singlecoiled]

oops, I'm not good at quote and reply, my bad. will try again

 

[singlecoiled]

Here's a fert regiment for 3 part if anyone needs it that works well. The pics are a photo strain that can be huddled tightly for limited space and produce good yield and remain short ,little to no branching and I keep them green too and stop feeding the last cple weeks or so.BLD doesn't need much fert or light.

Wow, that looks like a lot of salt. This is what messes with my head. That feed schedule is using a lot of bloom nutrients and the plants look amazing, I dont get it. Whos right, whos wrong? Everybody Nobody or Both?

 

[singlecoiled]

It may be the picture from my phone. In person they are green ,i just took another shot out of the light.

Thanks ! OK, I can increase my feed, I'm far from too green. (the plants that is, my growing abilities are another story)

Those are a very dark shade of green, very helpful.

 

[singlecoiled]

Your plants look great, very healthy and there's no such thing as "too green". Again, DG is a great fertilizer. Folks need to learn the function of a leaf and that includes how important chlorophyll (green) plays into photosynthesis process.

Thanks, I have a feeling all of my previous grows were a little to light of a shade of green. I'm gonna crank up the N just a tad to see if they color in a bit more.

Folks get worked up about leaf margin tips tipping down. Nothing wrong with that cause the leaves are functional and doing what they are supposed to do - manufacture carbos. Now, if the leaves were mottled, wrinkled, necrotic and look like hell warmed over due to the wrong and excess use of nutes, then yes, you've got problems.

Thanks, I am trying to learn how to read my plants, maybe I worry too much. I was afraid the tips were down due to excess N or root problems.. This is a relief.

Green - this 2004 DARK green Trainwreck X SweetTooth 2' main cola produced some fine bud top to bottom too. Needless to say, I don't belong to the Generation X Defoliation Herd.

42 and 44 days into 12/12 respectively:

Nice Bud ! Must have been a monster at harvest. Thanks for the pic so I can compare shades of green.

View attachment 18947278

View attachment 18947279

Recommend a higher day temp for the most vigor, say, 82 days and your 62F night. It's that wide temp differential day/night that all plants do best under.

I tried a heater but the cost to heat was more than the value of my single plant. I'm stuck in the low to mid 60's until winter passes and then I'll be low 70's... I need low odor, its a secret grow, low temps keep odor down (as a bonus)... Downside, she isnt drinking as much water in cold temps, its much slower. 3-4 days to water vs 2-3 days at higher temps...

Uncle Ben

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Nice ! Yep, my constant googling and research lead me to many of your threads across the internet. I've learned a lot from you and many other garderners. Your not alone, even the presisdent of Dynagrow admits that bloom nutrients are not neccesaary. I try to avoid following the mindless sheep that simply follow without questioning. Oddly, I've found gardeners provide better information than most cannabis growers...

Thanks for the thanks. You're on the right track.

Lol,. Yep my first few grows were a mess using Fox Farm Open Sesame,(5-45-19) along side Bloom nutrients. It didnt go well ! I'm learning.

All you got to do is long around and see what damage this Bloom stuff does. Last night a member recommended a 3 part food. I asked twice what the NPK and micros were. He didn't know.

Interesting. Out of curiosity have you ever grown an entire plant with Foliage Pro alone?....

Thanks Uncle Ben, Im a big fan and appreciate your no BS approach to growing. Really appreciate it !

Link to my Foliage Pro grow (Nirvana Northern Lights)

Yes I have.

I'll repeat what I've written many a time. Right or wrong, I identify cannabis as just another foliage plant that flowers. If you have houseplants which we all grow for their foliage i.e. diffenbachia, you know they all throw flower spikes. Accordingly you need to support the leaves until harvest. Screw the "harsh taste, bad terpenes" stuff. More forum hype based on anecdotal evidence.

Why in the hell Generation Dumbdowned has to compromise buds by destroying leaves with defoliation and bloom foods is beyond me. Conclusion - they don't know or care about botany, just feel good forum high fives.

Am I correct that even you have a psychological hangup that a high N food until harvest is hard to swallow? I do, but I know better. It's what the vendors who push Bloom foods have programmed us to believe....and buy.

3-1-2 is well balanced, not too much of one or the other. Same with my Osmocote 15-9-12.

Good luck!

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Thanks ! OK, I can increase my feed, I'm far from too green. (the plants that is, my growing abilities are another story)

Those are a very dark shade of green, very helpful.

Yesterday while moving some of my afghans to a place to sex I took this shot in the sun for true color rendering. This is an old Amsterdam cross - 1990 Master Kush X Afghani 90. 2 of the M. Kush got topped before the move. https://kwikseeds.com/product/master-kush-1990-x-afghaan-90/ Sure has narrow leaves for an afghan but apparently that is not at all uncommon for some Hindu Kush vs large leafsets with dark green over lapping leaves.

 

[bigsur51]

a Plant Science professor once told the Horticulture students that most plants can lose up to 30% of their leaves and it will not have a significant reduction on the rate of photosynthesis…

sometimes we defoliate , most of the time we don’t….I defoliate so i have less to trim come harvest time , not because it makes for bigger buds lol