She's Headed South! Help please!

[BirdDawg]

Ok, we've got a lady 3 weeks in the flower room having some major problems the past week.
DWC hydro, 3 1/2 gallon buckets, 2 x 400 w HPS, pH kept @ 6, GH 3 part nutes today @ 650, ratio 2G:2M:2B.
A week ago the leaves looked like this

(without flash)
She was getting 1G 2M 2B at 750 ppm, pH 6



(same leaf with flash)
The leaf spotting looked more tan than the yellow in the pictures.

This is the point at which we thought Phosphorus deficiency, and we upped feeding to the 1:2:3 ratio on Friday from 1:2:2, keeping pH at 6. ppm's at 750.

She's been getting twice weekly bucket changes and fresh nutes. pH adjusted to 6. Last week she was taking in close to 2 gallons of water a day which was topped with plain water for the 3 days between bucket changes.

The last couple days she's taken a turn for the worse. Leave are more completely yellow, edges and tips turning brown, with some brown spotting. What started on the bottom of the plant has spread about 2/3 of the way up the entire plant. She's stopped drinking water, but since Friday the ppms have dropped from 750 to 450.


(without flash)



(with flash)

I am not the primary caregiver of these plants. I just talked to the grower and found that the water is being pHed before adding nutes, so I'm thinking the ppm readings are not accurate for nutes. I'm still thinking she wants more phosphorus.

Anyone else have any thoughts? Help will be greatly appreciated!
Peace and respect to all.

 

[MynameStitch]

Magniseum nitrogen issue; as long as those leaves came from the middle to lower parts of the plant.

She needs fed; what ppm's is in her setup? How big are these plants and what is the water temps?
How big are these plants?

THat is definatly NOT phophorus issue; magniseum/nitrogen deficiency going on. Did she use any other nutrients besides GH? If not she needs to get some cal mag and get some nitrogen going in that system.

What water is she using for her setup? RO? Tap?

 

[BirdDawg]

Right now ppms at 650. Water is tap, but <30 ppm. I don't know water temps, but there's lotsa bubbles!! Plenty of air circulating, room AC. Just GH nutes. She's about 3 feet tall, branchy. I didn't have my camera there today, so just took leaves and did the pics later. Will try to get more pics tomorrow. It's only one plant of two in there - 2 different strains, tho. This is Farmer John's Amnesia 99xG13. 2nd grow of this- first was no problem, wonderfully easy, same setup.

 

[BirdDawg]

Bump

Anybody else? Agree with Stitch?

 

[Core]

yea i agree with stitch..I use already 500 ppm for rooted clones ....i do have 2 say i'm in soilless at the moment and DWC needs more nutrients then soilless...and 6 ph is't the optimum ph ether...try lowering a 0.2 - 0.3 points...

 

[MynameStitch]

It's very important to know the water temp in hydro; especially DWC; you want temps to stay under 70 but optimum uptake is 65 F

If you don't keep track not only will you have nutrient uptake problems but it also invites fungus and bacteria issues.

2 different strains, tho. This is Farmer John's Amnesia 99xG13. 2nd grow of this- first was no problem, wonderfully easy, same setup.

There is also a problem; unless you have grown 2 strains in the same hydro setup; you should not grow 2 strains, because all strains are different in requirements. Now there are strains that can be grown together in hydro as long as there nutrient requirements are nearly the same.

You will always have a tug of war in DWC when you have 2 different strains that are not near the same.

One may require more nutrients while the other is not then one ends up getting burned; so if you fix one issue your other plant will not get enough and show issues.

 

[BirdDawg]

Thanks!

Thanks!

Thanks for the help - I think we may have figured at least a good part of it out. I'm only the liaison between this forum and this grow, and sometimes it's hard going back and forth.

The pH of the buckets was done before adding nutes, so what was read as a pH of 6 was probably more like 5. Plus, the ppm reading were including the pH down that was added, so didn't accurately reflect the nute ppm.

Today she got another bucket change with 1 tbs Grow, 1 Tbs. Micro and 2 tbs bloom. pH at 6 with nothing added. We don't have a meter for pH, just drops. Making sure its yellow, with no hint of any green tint seems to work. ppms are 750 now.

Water temp is at 70. Room temp at 80 with lights on.

As for our two different strains, since each has it own bucket that is changed individually, it's not difficult to adjust for each plants likes and dislikes. With at most 4 in flower at any given time (this run only 2), it's not too hard to keep track of who likes what. It's one of the things I like about DWC.

Oh, and I forgot the camera today... a minor emergency and a change in my schedule kinda blew my plans awry. Anyway, we'll see how she looks in the morning...thanks so much for the help!!

Peace and respect.

 

[Haps]

What you have been told is right on, girl is hungry, probably locked out. You need to do the ph after the nutes are added. Also, at least here, it takes two days for my nutes/water to stabilize to a final ph, so for me, an initial check only would give me false data, which is what you have here, the ph is not 6.
H

 

[BirdDawg]

Thanks, Haps! I am hoping that we've got things back under control now. Time will tell. I'm not sure how things got turned around in the process, but at least this near disaster was a wake up call. My friend feels badly for, in her words, "getting lazy and sloppy", tho I know she takes better care than that ordinarily. I think it was more a case of forgetting what order things go in, and forgetting how one affects the other. As soon as I saw what she was doing in mixing the buckets, I suspected the pH was way off. It's fixed now, and we can only hope no permanent damage to the plant. I don't think she'll be making the same mistake again!!

 

[juana2]

hey kids, thanks for all the help. The ph was too low in the flowering plants- but changing it hasn't seemed to affect any of the plants. The Amnesia still sucks and the others are still ok.
the Amnesia is still losing leaves- every day I go in and pull off more dead ones.
Birdawg neglected to mention a few things : like a spider mite infestation that I have been battling since a week before our last harvest.
After much research and after trying many expensive "natural' methods I went out and bought two Hot Shot No Pest Strips from Home Depot yesterday. I put one in the veg room and one in the flower room yesterday morning and turned off the ventilation for 24 hours. This morning I turned the fans on when the HPS kicked on- I will go in and turn them off again at night -for 4 total days.
In just one day, all the mites I see on the leaves are dead, some are half emerged from eggs and dead. There are still eggs and I am hoping they either don't hatch or hatch and die.
Everything I have read about the No Pest Strips says they have no effect on the plants, only the critters- including humans and pets, so I have the whole room closed up and only go in to care for the grow.

"The only thing worse than spider mites is LEO"
I that read at Cannabis.com, where I read posts by someone called- Opie Utts who I would like to THANK someday! He was adamant about the Pest Strips.
I thought we were going to have to tear it all down here!
The thing about using the strips is you want to let it build up in the room so you need to do some temporary stops on the ventilation or slow it down somehow.

We took some clones of the amnesia and they aren't doing well either. I am ready to toss them at this point because they are a pain to grow. The C99's and Blue Apollo seeds are moving right along- and this time I caught the hatching before it spread to any new plants, which is a relief.Hopefully they won't be effected by the mites at all.

I am also going to try SM-90 made by Nutrilife that is supposed to improve the roots and systemically protect the plant from predators. Figure it can't hurt!
I have noticed "rust" in the buckets when I change them- something from the roots not right.
Thanks for all who read and help here! I couldn't do this without the gracious help of you beautiful strangers I read on line.
peace

 

[juana2]

D'OH! Spoke too soon!
Yes, the mites are gone, but in their weakened state some fell pray to fungus. Now I am dealing with root rot and leaf rust- but I am dealing with it thanks to the threads here! And FAQ's...I want to say the Amnesia99 is a great strain- and this is why I say it- everything that could have gone wrong did, and she still put out some nice looking dank buds that smoke me out. I will def try that strain again.
It's all a huge learing experience, and as much as it sucks having things go wrong, I know it's the best way to learn how to do things right.
It's probably typical of newbie growers, to get a couple ounces under their belts and thinking its easy, and not just begtinners luck- live and learn and keep on growing I say!
on to bigger and better buds!!!!
peace and saf keeping on all you wonderful peeps
jj

btw- washing roots in H2O2 solution, re sterilizing everything, new tubing, new air stones, room cleaned with bleach all over again ( just did this two weeks ago with the mites!) using SM-90 in my nute solution and also adding some H2O2 as well.
Have sprayed neem oil spray on leaves and left out of lights for spells, not sure it really helps. and is it just me? or does the smell of that stuff make anyone else gag?
peace-out again

 

[MynameStitch]

Here is a nice read about mites jj........

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=66865

to long to post it in here.........

 

[juana2]

many thanks Stitch!
my grow room has gone through some major evolving through this whole process.
I was really bummed about having these problems happen, but now that I think it's better ( crossing fingers) I am grateful for how much I learned through this whole ordeal. It has struck me recently that every time I look at and ponder The Plant, I learn more about the species in general. I wonder if I can explain that.

The first time I ever saw a real pot plant growing I was overwhelmed. I didn't know what I was seeing! Mixed with the excitement and thrill of being allowed to see it- I was blinded by my own ignorance.
Seeing pictures in magazines were difficult to believe. I never saw buds that looked like those. Even if I could afford pot like that, by the time it got to my hands it was all kiffed and old and stored poorly.

So flash forward to a newbie first time grower, watching the good beans sprout and flourish and spread and pretty soon I had a closet full of sparkling trich's and magazine buds and the best pot I had ever smoked in my life!
So the grow slid. And the problems have taught me.
Did Stitch and gypsy and all the mentors go thru this same evolution>? Do most people? Or am I just one of those peeps that has to learn the hard way?

many thanks and blessing on all y'all who grow and share here
juanajuana

 

[MynameStitch]

THats good at least some people learn from there mistakes

I had a hell of a time when I had my 2nd grow only, because my water was screwed up and had sodium in it. Not to mention different times of the year the water was different and softer. I had grew my first plant in winter and 2nd grow was in spring summer; whole different ball game.

I think most growers do not read up on something until they have the problem; what I did was go way in advance and research up about anything under the sun; mix that with helping out others and I have seen about anything that can happen to the plant.... but there are a few things that I have never seen before and there is ALWAYS that chance that something new comes up.

Hey that's what we are all here for; help out and share grow stories and kick back and have fun

 

[10k]

WAIT a minute...Am I reading this correctly birddog/juana2 ?

a week ago the plants started looking horrible and they were getting 1g 2m 2b ratio?
Then you thought you had a P def so you upped your mix to a 1g 2m 3b on friday?
now today you changed out to a 2g 2m 2b ratio ?
And another bucket change today with 1g 1m 2b ratio ?
birddog mentioned "tbs" (tablespoon) on that last bucket change, I figure you mean per 3-1/2 gallon bucket right ? which IF the buckets had 3 gallons total of solution would work out to about a "tsp" (teaspoon) per gallon as the part size... right ?

Starting tap water @ 30 ppm and the above mixes were reading 650 to 750 ppm ?

what ratio did you run with for vegging btw ?

when you "upped" the bucket on friday from 122 to 123 did you just dump a tablespoon of B into the bucket to make it change from 122 to 123 ?

juana2 now notices "rust in the bucket" when changing the bucket so I'm wondering if you have some precipitating out of the solution in the buckets and must ask you...
In exactly what order are you mixing your gh multipart nutes into the water, one at a time into the water or all at once ? grow then micro then bloom ? or micro then grow then bloom? or measure all into one beaker then dump into the water ?

and...
"She's been getting twice weekly bucket changes and fresh nutes. pH adjusted to 6. Last week she was taking in close to 2 gallons of water a day which was topped with plain water for the 3 days between bucket changes." ?

 

[juana2]

10k- sorry for the confusion. Birdawg is observing two different grows, mine and someone elses and I can't understand what she posted here as my mix.
My problem was spider mites. It wasn't anything with the nute mix. I use GH, micro first of course, gro and bloom. I change the buckets every 7-10 days, depending on what stage and what's happening.
The REASON my ph kept going up was all the dead root material .
But PH wasn't the problem: it was spider mites and then fungus.
Sorry for all the confusion. I like to keep everything very simple and straight forward.
I didn't start this thread, and the person who did didn't fully understand what was happening.I didn't even know she had posted this for a week- you may notice in the dates....sorry. thanks for your input

 

[MynameStitch]

dude wow, jj the way you came back in here sounded like you and birdawg was the same person considering bird did not come back and post.........

I thought you came back with another problem + the new name and just decided to post here rather than making a new thread.... talk about complete hijack........

 

[10k]

Yikes, talk about a confused thread...
Birddog, Please do a growfaq search for GH 123 beginers nutrient mix, because what I see here, if I was reading it correctly, is a total fubar in the making and a very probably cause for lockouts, tox's and defs.