Seeds of Africa seedbank???

[egodeath]

a update again from me for coffe gold, mozambica and pondo mystic.

pondo mystic is now in my view not a stable strain and is not as described by seeds of africa, it has no citrus smell and the leaves and structure are too different between the plants to be a strain in my opinion.
it grows like a sativa and i doubt that some indica was mixed in at least my experience with it doesnt show it.

mozambica still looks like a strain to me, completely sativa, smell is the same as before

coffe gold is one of my new favourites i think, i am not quite sure if it is a strain, somehow i sometimes have the impression that it looks a bit like some pondo plants and the other way round, but the smell is a bit different.
the growht is completely sativa, i have grown punto rojo from cbg and coffee gold has thinner leaves after flowering even thinner than original haze and typical structure. very nice, very vigorous and the nicest of all, very mold resistant even in bad foggy cool weather at least still till now, i grew a few other strains outside and all molded, cofffee gold is unimpressed and keeps on going.
pondo and mozambica i am not growing outside but i suspect they are the same with mold and health.

all in all i suspect that pondo and coffee gold (maybe mozambica too, i will grow more next year to look more into it) are a mix of different sativa varieties maybe even between the two or three, the smell is similar, structure similar but the flowering onset is different so i dont really know what to think. if you define landrace like the one user whos name i have forgotten (different look is alright for a landrace) then they certainly are landraces.

i certainly will grow coffee gold again, made seeds to look what becomes of them and mozambica i will also grow again and buy more, pondo is also alright but it impressed me the least of all, but still good

 

[GET MO]

I think in unworked landrace u will find variety, as they werent all collected from same plant. Whereass if one were to take specific plant n selectively breed it it will be more homogonous, such as aces landraces.

 

[egodeath]

I think in unworked landrace u will find variety, as they werent all collected from same plant. Whereass if one were to take specific plant n selectively breed it it will be more homogonous, such as aces landraces.

i had this discussion in this thread before and i still have my opinion (conviction) on that, but everybody defines strain, landrace, heirloom etc. different, thats how it is in the cannabis "industry"

 

[GET MO]

The reason i say this is because of the times. Seeds are always traded amongst villagers and whatnot, i think even in the way less developed areas they still have large diversity of plants. Maybe 20 years ago it was more seperate, but between amount of growers and travelers spreading seed its bound to mix things up eveywhere. Then we got bone heads like the greenhouse folks bringin they hermi color coated bullshit to the locals to grow too.

 

[Coughie]

That's all well and fine,
But sometimes you need to remove yourself from the projections of the "industry".

The "cannabis industry" is known for taking the "stoner approach," but when it comes to plant breeding and genetics; there's plenty of material to reference that has nothing to do with "stoner science" or the "stoner approach"...


'Strain' isn't a technical term, you're looking for 'varietal'
Strains are.. bacteria, viruses.. not plants..

'Landrace' and 'Heirloom' have technical definitions.
As does homogenous/homozygous and heterogenous/heterzygous

Making a long reply shorter - if your convictions are based on "Stoner science"/"Stoner approaches"... It doesn't automatically make them correct, it just means you're misinformed. Which is fine, to be misinformed, but it's then not okay to deny the truth of the information when it's presented to you..


If a varietal as it's sold has a larger amount of phenotypical expression, then it's scientifically/mathematically less-worked than something that is IBL'd, which will show a larger percentage of homogeneity.. That's just the matter of the fact.

ACE seeds present highly inbred lines of what-were landrace or heirloom varieties, which is why they only present ~1-3 phenotypes within a 10-20 seed selection.



Pertaining to the matter at hand, seeing a larger swath of phenotypical expressions within those seeds, would suggest to me that they have a higher potential for actually being what they're advertised as - unworked, landraces.

If they all looked identical.. someone worked them, considerably.

 

[GET MO]

Sounds like u just said the same thing as i was saying. More phenos in less worked. If u go out and gather seeds in malawi, u will find a large variety of phenos in those seeds. Get some malawi from ace, it is worked, therefore more homogeneous.

 

[egodeath]

Pertaining to the matter at hand, seeing a larger swath of phenotypical expressions within those seeds, would suggest to me that they have a higher potential for actually being what they're advertised as - unworked, landraces.

If they all looked identical.. someone worked them, considerably.

landraces are never unworked, thats the definition of a landrace

 

[egodeath]

"Harlan’s definition (1975) of a landrace was populations that
had evolved in subsistence !!! agricultural !!! societies as a
result of ‘millennia long’, !!! ‘artificial’ human selection !!!
pressures, mediated through human migration, seed
exchange as well as natural selection."

"The survey of landrace literature and key informant
interviews indicated that there are several defining
characteristics associated with landraces: historical
origin, !!! recognizable identity !!! , lack of formal genetic
improvement, high genetic diversity, local genetic adap-
tation and association with !!! traditional farming systems !!!"

 

[Coughie]

"Harlan’s definition (1975) of a landrace was populations that
had evolved in subsistence !!! agricultural !!! societies as a
result of ‘millennia long’, ‘artificial’ human selection
pressures, mediated through human migration, seed
exchange as well as natural selection."

"The survey of landrace literature and key informant
interviews indicated that there are several defining
characteristics associated with landraces: historical
origin, !!! recognizable identity !!! , lack of formal genetic
improvement, high genetic diversity, local genetic adap-
tation and association with !!! traditional farming systems !!!"

Your own quote states that they are unworked.
Lack of formal genetic improvement = unworked.
High genetic diversity = unworked.

Why is it unworked? Because of seed exchange due to human migration and natural selection through local genetic adaptation..

I think you might be working with a different definition of what "worked", because I dont know how you get anything-IBL from that quote..


This is all a digression from Seeds of Africa though.. if you wanna debate it further, start a thread in the breeding or landrace sections and I'll chime in later today when I have time.

I don't like engaging in extended derailments..

 

[VERMONSTAH]

I don't like engaging in extended derailments..


That's a signature waiting to happen. Lovely shit right there.
Lots of good reading so far, So being homogenous isnt a bad thing esp if what your looking for can be found in those expressions. I need to start using proper nomenclature as well, varietals just rolls off the tongue better anywho.

 

[egodeath]

Your own quote states that they are unworked.
Lack of formal genetic improvement = unworked.
High genetic diversity = unworked.

Why is it unworked? Because of seed exchange due to human migration and natural selection through local genetic adaptation..

I think you might be working with a different definition of what "worked", because I dont know how you get anything-IBL from that quote..


This is all a digression from Seeds of Africa though.. if you wanna debate it further, start a thread in the breeding or landrace sections and I'll chime in later today when I have time.

I don't like engaging in extended derailments..

i doubt that we will ever come to an consent, because, like you probably also know, being an expert in the field, there is a big debate between real experts about landraces definition etc. and even they havent really come to an universally accepted definition.
so i doubt we will, but i will still try to make me understood better even though it is quite hard for me as english is not my first language...
maybe our definition of worked and unworked is different, thats possible.
for me worked means that there was human interference and a process in which desirable traits were tried to be kept in a variety.
now lets try to think us into a village that bred a landrace.

they had a certain climate and so on and liked some kind of plant like hemp. they used hemp for lets say seed crop.
so now you have a field full of hemp and it adapts itself to the climate and the people growing the hemp look at the hemp and see that some plants have more seeds and some less and some are bigger and some are smaller and some flower quicker and some later and so on.
now because they werent quite as stupid as most people in our culture are, they rip out the plants they dont like, maybe the smaller ones or maybe the bigger ones and maybe the ones that flower sooner or maybe the ones that flower later, because they dont have the preferred traits, because they are farmers and have a agriculture which is a difference to wild grown hemp, the difference is human interference and an human idea and imagination on how the plants are supposed to be.
so slowly it develops into a variety the people like and years go by and the plants being open pollinated have a big genetic diversity but still are IDENTIFIABLE because they have been breeding together for many many years and (and this is natural law not just me making stuff up) through this the plants form a IDENTIFIABLE and UNIQUE appearance and characteristics which DISTINGUISH them from other landraces, which are also HUMAN made or worked in my definition.
now somebody brings a new variety into the village and the people grow it alongside the other one and they like some traits and so the process begins new and after many years a new landrace is established.
genetic diversity does not mean that the plants all look different and lack of genetic improvement does not mean the people doing the landrace breeding didnt know what they were doing.

 

[GET MO]

so far all the durbans I got from soa (well I only had 2, but...) looked similar in veg growth. Long slender leaves and stretchy vigurous growth.

Heres my current one as of the first... Smells wonderful, like a cinnamon latte, with some nutmeg.

 

[VERMONSTAH]

what a wonderful description........cinn latte ....i can work with that!

 

[Coughie]

Oh my,
That sounds delicious lol

 

[MadMac]

so far all the durbans I got from soa (well I only had 2, but...) looked similar in veg growth. Long slender leaves and stretchy vigurous growth.

Heres my current one as of the first... Smells wonderful, like a cinnamon latte, with some nutmeg.
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high,
well that Durban looks like the real deal!
nice bud's and the red stem is a indicator with the grow pattern and leaf style...
very good to know
have 2 packs of them...
all the best
M.

 

[bigmotaman48]

I picked clones that were grown fron SOA Durban seeds last year on Dec. 2 very massive very hardy and very purple , an ass kicking racy high that I call " Green Meth " It is way speedy , well especially in the brownies I just ate , lol , I got about 20 ounces of it per plant of off 4 jumbo greenhouse plants , it was an awful cold winter last year in Northern Ca.

 

[idiit]

I picked clones that were grown fron SOA Durban seeds last year on Dec. 2 very massive very hardy and very purple , an ass kicking racy high that I call " Green Meth " It is way speedy , well especially in the brownies I just ate , lol , I got about 20 ounces of it per plant of off 4 jumbo greenhouse plants , it was an awful cold winter last year in Northern Ca. bigmotaman48

^great post. thanks.

here's an earlier post I made on soa dp:

first smoke report: durban seeds of africa

i ran 2 packs. i selected 4 durban females and one non hermie durban male.

the male had some indica looking influence, mostly sativa. best male i could find.

durban female #3 had frosty tight nugs. smelled good; slight anise seed/liquorice terpene undertones. potency was very good. high was an excellent up, clear, energetic euphoric type high. duration was good 3 hours.

i'm regenerating/revegging this pheno.i have 2 clones rooting. i will only use this dp #3 next year outdoors of the durbans.
this pheno ranks right now with my best of the best. it's a keeper.

my first indoor run of my mandingo cut of soa Malawi was so impressive I put the soa Durban back as second. honestly, I thnk I forgot how good that female I made seeds off of was. I was running a lot of landrace strains an I kinda pushed this one out of mind. I grew a clone of the dp female outdoors and poo poo got it day before I came in to harvest. I did get some early nugs that were real good. no purple even in cold temps. this plant got huge and was very hardy. she comes in like bigmotaman48 says.

i'm looking for commercial hybrids with my aloha white widow 'sweet thang' leaning pheno from old aww seedstock, not the tired out male in hybrids that's been so disappointing to many including me.

I got Kaiki's Durban now. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=324217

hey farmerlion, do it! it sounds great, did you find your purple malawi in fem or reg seeds?

what i wanna tell you in this thread is that the CBG DURBAN is the best sativa i have smoked so far. malawi is killer herb but when it comes to the sativa high like people describe it (electric high, almost like a nose..) then durban is the way to go. it has also that unmistakeable flavour, you now it´s durban as soon as you break up a bud of it..crazy terpy (smells like terpentin) smell! made some Durban Poison (Dutch Passion) x Durban crosses, i´m gonna report the outcome here..stay tuned! subrovka

the aww seed 'sweet thang'/soa mandigo cut Malawi did not have the hybrid vigor I was hoping for. some seedlings came in too early for my od grow environment. best performance is after September hot humid conditions leave.

the aww 'sweet thang'/soa Durban or aww/cbg's Durban might be what i'm after; huge yielding commercial strains that can compete bag appeal wise grown outdoors. quality seed stock for commercial outdoor growers in hot humid conditions really sucks atm imo. they have to be hardy and huge yielding grown guerilla style.



soa #3 Durban female is back on the table. So is kaiki's more pencil stick looking Durban stock. maybe some Durban soa/Durban cbg hybrids might be interesting.then taking the best for my outdoor growing needs and using a juicy male to hit my aww 'st' female with.

I gots some nice aww/soa Malawi mandingo gals coming in and i'll post pics. the later the better for bag appeal as long as they finish by nov. 15 for my area. these were low yielding hybrids and i'm disappointed. the early 'st' aww/mandingos smoke very strong but don't have the frosty look the later flowering ones have. I need hardy, huge yielding quality smoke with commercial level bag appeal. proving so far to be a difficult task.

 

[bigmotaman48]

No more Durban or late sativas for me , it is too cold in the Bay Area in winter but I did cross a Cangshan Mountain sativa with a massive garlic lemon og hybrid / landrace male crosses is what I want to grow next year .

 

[GET MO]

Lookin like maybe good candidates for the cob cure, n rosin press. Love the smell....

 

[GET MO]

Has gotten a tad sweeter n more pungent, one of the best smelling plants ive ever grown as of right now, n them crystals is finally comin on, ima have to give in n run this inside one time...
This is day after crazy storm...