Sea of Green Reality

[merkaba]

So, I have been at this for some time now and have grown all sorts of different styles. NExt on the list is a true sea of green - 64 plants per 4x4 table, hydroton ebb and flow. I will be running a Shipwreck cutting from Oregon that is great for large fat top colas. Is it really realistic to get a 14 gram plant in this style? Do I skirt the plants before putting them in or let them go a week or so and then skirt them? I hear lots of he said she said, but I am curious if anyone has any personal experience.

Cheers

 

[merkaba]

Seriously? No one does SOG anymore?

 

[pip313]

Google and hours, that's what I do. Look at pics do the claimed numbers look accurate?

Can your clone make a half oz off no veg? I don't know you tell me but yes I have seen it.

 

[tenthirty]

The problem is not every clone makes 15g.
I average about 10g per after about 15 or so runs.

 

[pip313]

If you have to ask then you haven't ran this plant this small before. Do a test run on plants count/spacing. Maybe 64 (8x8) isn't right for your plant maybe 100 (10x10) is. Maybe 144 (12x12) ok maybe that's a bit overboard but until you know how your plant fills space we are guessing.

I could see 144 plants on a table if it was my big bud that plant has almost no stretch and without veg flowers straight up. 9 square inchs no problem. From clone I wouldn't space my galaxy god bud any closer than 8 inches from its neighbor .

I grow vertical trees but my same clones get table duty at a buddy's house. (Not galaxy)

 

[unspoken]

Alone has a good SOG rocking right now, and he has the same goal of 14gs/plant. Check it out: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=253918

Basically I think it really depends on the strain, and you need to dial it in through denial and error.

 

[Chillb]

SOG grows seem to be fairly uncommon these days, I think mostly in part to the much higher plant numbers using the technique. I used this exclusively during flowering for a couple years in the 90's and absolutely loved it ... and I still do. The diesel grow in sig is sea of green, 9 plants in a 2x2ft area. They grew larger than I anticipated, but if these go 21g per I'd be beyond happy for 300 watts. My setup equates out to expecting very close to what you are looking for. I also agree with what pip313 added...

chillb

 

[dank.frank]

The concept of TRUE SOG was lost in the concept of bigger roots = bigger buds - so bigger pots. And while that is the bread and butter of a soil gardener, it's not the same for say coco on drip feeders.

A TRUE 4 plant per sq ft SOG - I have not seen in a long time. Now if peoples containers touch regardless the size....or if they don't top...or a million other things get called SOG now that just are not.

There is also the aspect of plant count that many have to consider when trying to comply with local laws...

I've always thought the key to a good SOG was a more narrow plant that grows single cola naturally, but that also stretches enough to allow for internodes to develop for good yields...that typically means a sativa hybrid. 10-12wk plants that give 2.5 -3x stretch. That way when you put a plant in a 1/2 gallon container as a clone and instantly flower it, you still have a decent 22-30" plants - and not a tiny 12" indica stub.

I think that is ALSO in part why you saw the decline of the SOG garden - is people have a misconception formed. It was dubbed as the high yield strategy...so people attempted to pair that concept with other high yield concepts - ie shorter flowering times for faster turn around...and you saw an influx of SOG gardens with poorly selected indica dominant genetics. Everyone complained that plants were to close at those concentrations and all you get is bud rot or PM...

Strain selection is KEY with a successful SOG...but big 1++ gpw easily achieved this way.

My two cents..



dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

Chillb - 9 plants in a 2 x 2 is not "SOG"

SOG in a 2 x 2 would be 16 plants...by definition.


dank.Frank

 

[pip313]

Also when people realized a little veg and a screen do the same thing withou worrin about fed time then it's popularity went down.

 

[Chillb]

Chillb - 9 plants in a 2 x 2 is not "SOG"

SOG in a 2 x 2 would be 16 plants...by definition.


dank.Frank

Originally I had 12 and thinned out a few so leaf spans didn't overlap, all pots were touching ... had staggered rows, but still not a full 16. Just callin it what I what I always have. Is it really 4 per sq foot?


Peace,
chillb

 

[dank.frank]

Yes...by definition, ORIGINALLY - "SOG ie Sea of Green" was 4 plants per square foot.

It's one of the key elements of the particular growing method...if not THE key element...


dank.Frank

 

[merkaba]

The smallest I have run the Shipwreck is prolly flowered at 12" finish around 24". My new space has very little veg space, thus my thought of rocking a true SOG. I am not sure about plant numbers, you do 16 per 4x4 by 4kw, plus veg plants, clones and mothers...you are quickly well above 99 plants. Something to think about for sure. I suppose I could just dedicate the whole room to a cycle every 2 months, transplant and veg for a week before flipping. I also like the idea of larger buds, less duff,etc.

 

[kingape]

The concept of TRUE SOG was lost in the concept of bigger roots = bigger buds - so bigger pots. And while that is the bread and butter of a soil gardener, it's not the same for say coco on drip feeders.

A TRUE 4 plant per sq ft SOG - I have not seen in a long time. Now if peoples containers touch regardless the size....or if they don't top...or a million other things get called SOG now that just are not.

There is also the aspect of plant count that many have to consider when trying to comply with local laws...

I've always thought the key to a good SOG was a more narrow plant that grows single cola naturally, but that also stretches enough to allow for internodes to develop for good yields...that typically means a sativa hybrid. 10-12wk plants that give 2.5 -3x stretch. That way when you put a plant in a 1/2 gallon container as a clone and instantly flower it, you still have a decent 22-30" plants - and not a tiny 12" indica stub.

I think that is ALSO in part why you saw the decline of the SOG garden - is people have a misconception formed. It was dubbed as the high yield strategy...so people attempted to pair that concept with other high yield concepts - ie shorter flowering times for faster turn around...and you saw an influx of SOG gardens with poorly selected indica dominant genetics. Everyone complained that plants were to close at those concentrations and all you get is bud rot or PM...

Strain selection is KEY with a successful SOG...but big 1++ gpw easily achieved this way.

My two cents..



dank.Frank

Hey Frank!

How you doing?

Saw your comment and you are right about strain selection being key to the entire SOG Op.

Could you recommend a Sativa Hybrid like you said in the post which has gas terps and would be suited for SOG grows!

OR any strains/breeders that you'd care to recommend...thanks!

 

[Hiddenjems]

Also when people realized a little veg and a screen do the same thing withou worrin about fed time then it's popularity went down.

It doesn’t do the same thing. A little veg and a screen is a least one less harvest per year from the same space.


I walked 20 years ago after a high plant count bust. Don’t ever say a word to the police and most of the time you’ll walk.

 

[dank.frank]

Hey Frank!

How you doing?

Saw your comment and you are right about strain selection being key to the entire SOG Op.

Could you recommend a Sativa Hybrid like you said in the post which has gas terps and would be suited for SOG grows!

OR any strains/breeders that you'd care to recommend...thanks!

The selection is far to broad these days to narrow it down. There are more options to growers as far as seeds are concerned than there every has been.

It really just depends on what you find. It's about plant stretch primarily. The plant has to stretch enough to make it worth flipping without veg. To make that worth while, the plant needs to stack internodes vs just be a lanky stretcher without any possibility to fill in. That way, you get long colas vs golf ball nugs.

I could tell you seed line and you still may not get the right pheno. There are ways to encourage this growth pattern though.

Plants that are root bound and plants that are under lower lighting intensity, will grow with elongated internode distances. You can manipulate that in veg, and wait for secondary growth nodes just start to appear.

That's when you transplant and flip immediately into flower. By default, the secondary growth will fill in during stretch and because these are not full established branches, they will stay shorter and tighter to the meristem, allowing for more a single cola type growth profile - or just a more dense and compact plant profile in general.



dank.Frank

 

[kingape]

The selection is far to broad these days to narrow it down. There are more options to growers as far as seeds are concerned than there every has been.

It really just depends on what you find. It's about plant stretch primarily. The plant has to stretch enough to make it worth flipping without veg. To make that worth while, the plant needs to stack internodes vs just be a lanky stretcher without any possibility to fill in. That way, you get long colas vs golf ball nugs.

I could tell you seed line and you still may not get the right pheno. There are ways to encourage this growth pattern though.

Plants that are root bound and plants that are under lower lighting intensity, will grow with elongated internode distances. You can manipulate that in veg, and wait for secondary growth nodes just start to appear.

That's when you transplant and flip immediately into flower. By default, the secondary growth will fill in during stretch and because these are not full established branches, they will stay shorter and tighter to the meristem, allowing for more a single cola type growth profile - or just a more dense and compact plant profile in general.



dank.Frank

Wow!

That's really a very logical answer!

Thanks!

If I understood you correctly, I should let the clones root and veg them till the first new node appears and then immediately flip to flower?

I get your point about the phenos being different.

However, if you could tell me which of those might work that'll really shorten my universe of selections

 

[dank.frank]

When I take a clone, it usally has at least 2-3 internodes on it. Once a clone is rooted, I like to place it in a 1 quart or .96l pot. I'll let roots fill out, then I place into a half gallon. From half gallon to 3 or 5 gallon or flower, depending on how long the plant will flower. If over 10 weeks I use a 5 gallon.

That not ideal for SOG, but for just growing regular bush style, top a couple times, etc.

For organic soil SOG, you have to use containers that are deep, yet narrow enough to pack 4 per square foot. The best container I ever found for such was called a "rose bucket". It was LITTLE BIT BIGGER than desired, "7.6 x 7.6" which resulted in a slightly lower plant density, but it was also 1.7 gallons - which was ideal for taking a clone, vegged into 1 quart and then placing in the rose bucket and flipped immediately. I would completely remove any secondary branches from bottom internodes that were were longer than 1.5". Secondary growth under 1" was allowed to remain for flower production and cola formation.

Keep in mind, I use water only organic soil, so soil volume was much more important to me. A standard 1/2 gallon or 6" pot was not enough media to sustain the plants through out flower properly without needed additional feedings at some point during the cycle. It's much harder playing catch up in an organic system than it is running salts.

Look for 12-14 wk sativa mothers, crossed to 8-9wk indica fathers. You want a plant that will stretch at least 2.5-3x it's original height when flipped. Meaning, if you clone is 8" in flower, you want her to be at least 20-24" when done stretching. That means, you are looking for a plant with sativa vigor - that isn't going to only give whispy flowers, but will benefit for the indica infusion and want to make larger central coals.

Check out TopDawg Seeds and look at their haze lines crossed to some chem or hash plant lines.

MOST OF THE PLANTS - you are looking for in a SOG type setting, will actually flower 11-12 wks. It's not going to be your early 8-9wk plants that perform with this type of sativa infused vigor.

A 12wk plant is really sort of ideal, as it allows you to rotate on a 3wk or 4wk metric to keep a perpetual harvest system.

Keep in mind, one of the key components of running a SOG system, was the idea you didn't have to veg...at all. It was intended to take a rooted clone, directly into flower, without veg. The concept was based around quicker turn around and saving expenses by not having to maintain a secondary spot to veg plants before flower.

You STILL need a proper veg room though, and actually, when you grasp the full concept, to take 16-32-64 cuts to fill a table with clones, you need LARGE mothers or multiple smaller mothers of the same plant.

2' x 2' = 16 plants
3' x 3' = 32 plants
4' x 4' = 64 plants

Keep in mind, you should maintain a 6" perimeter between the container and the wall, to allow for air flow. So the sizes above are for plant space only...actual planting areas. The 4' x 4' would be the footprint for a 5' x 5' tent / room, or 25 square foot.

Hope this helps you out a bit more.



dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

This plant [Oreoz x (Wedding Cake F2 x Kush Mints #11)] is in a 1 quart and is ready to be transplanted into a larger container. If I WAS running a SOG style garden right now, it would go into a rose bucket then directly into 12/12.

This plant is from seed not from clone, however, same general principal applies.

If I was running Coir or running some sort of bottled nutrients, it could easily go into a 6" 1/2 gallon container, be flowered. Since it is already near 12" tall, even if stretch was on 2x - I would be okay in the end with a 2' tall plant that would give me at least 18" of cola.

The goal was generally to ensure that you get at least 14g from every plant. That puts you around that 2lb per light mark in a 25 sq ft room.



dank.Frank

 

[flylowgethigh]

Sea of Sativa?