ScroG - Super Cheese; stretch much?

[BET]

Hi all,

does anyone have any experience with this strain?

I'm doing my first scrog. Its 150W HPS, screen is about 15" above the medium and its currently about 50% full, 42 days from seed, so been vegging about a month or so. Using Bio Bizz at present. PH is fine in both medium and water.

I've read a lot about scrog, and people say that different strains will need to be flipped at different times because of the amount they stretch. The seed desc. was a short to medium height, so I'm not anticipating too much stretch, not that height is an issue for me - my limiting factors are the abysmal light penetration of the 150W HPS so scrog was a natural choice. I'm more concerned about overgrowth in the screen if I veg it too long. Looking at the screen, it could probably take another couple of weeks before the flip, but I wanted to ask

These pics are three days old, and there are now more bud sites, around 20 in total.


Cheers


BET

 

[Scrogerman]

Always difficult to gauge with a new strain. your the first ive seen growing this. are you allowed to tell me who the vendor is? na, dont bother i'll do a search. see what ya got?

With the 150w, id try to keep the Colas pretty short, get as much penetration outta the 150 as you can. Lookin good so far man. Ill tag along for the ride.

(After looking)
I see theres a few breeders jumping on the SuperCheese bandwagon, some discriptions are super hype & others are vauge, so they aint much help imo. looks like you'll have to play it by ear, which is usually the way.

i see your longer lateral branches have nearly got the the ends of the screen which may pose a few little issues for you with an even canopy, personally id be flippin very soon, in the next few days to a week(if that), work most of the stretch through the screen into the colas final resting position. gotta think/plan ahead here & not knowing the stretch doesnt help, makes me think sooner rather than later would prolly help you out. always a difficult one!

20 well spaced Colas is what id be shooting for, i think(30 max)! just use that stretch, day 7 of 12/12 - day 28 approx, with 6-8" colas roughly(thats what id wanna end up with). keep working the laterals round under the screen, through at least half of the stretch maybe 3/4's, then let em go. i can see you know how to prune.

How bigs your Cab/space? the euphoria x unknown was it?


G'luck

 

[BET]

Always difficult to gauge with a new strain. your the first ive seen growing this. are you allowed to tell me who the vendor is? na, dont bother i'll do a search. see what ya got?

With the 150w, id try to keep the Colas pretty short, get as much penetration outta the 150 as you can. Lookin good so far man. Ill tag along for the ride.

(After looking)
I see theres a few breeders jumping on the SuperCheese bandwagon, some discriptions are super hype & others are vauge, so they aint much help imo. looks like you'll have to play it by ear, which is usually the way.

i see your longer lateral branches have nearly got the the ends of the screen which may pose a few little issues for you with an even canopy, personally id be flippin very soon, in the next few days to a week(if that), work most of the stretch through the screen into the colas final resting position. gotta think/plan ahead here & not knowing the stretch doesnt help, makes me think sooner rather than later would prolly help you out. always a difficult one!

20 well spaced Colas is what id be shooting for, i think(30 max)! just use that stretch, day 7 of 12/12 - day 28 approx, with 6-8" colas roughly(thats what id wanna end up with). keep working the laterals round under the screen, through at least half of the stretch maybe 3/4's, then let em go. i can see you know how to prune.

How bigs your Cab/space?


G'luck

Thanks for the reply Scrogerman, when I saw your name I knew you'd have a good answer

My last grow was a standard soil grow with Honey B from Barneys. Beautiful mellow smoke, sativa so really nice high. I didn't know about the penetration of light then, so I was mainly top heavy with a lot of pop corn nuggets. I got about 1.5oz off it dry. A mate of mine recently grew Cheese, and it was smelly and very tasty. I saw this and thought I'd give it a go. He used 400W HPS in a tent and got good results. It wasn't that tall, but you never know with these hybrid strains... the hype was just that, hype. I'm old enough to read through that. Bottom line was >15% THC, mainly indica meaning shorter flowering, and also not height hungry. It takes the nutes well as well. My Honey B was really sensitive if you used the stronger end of the scale, but this one eats it up. I didn't use any flowering specific nutes last time, just used the bio bizz throughout the grow but will try something designed for flowering this time.

I grow in an old closet in my attic. Its 18 cubic feet. I don't use most of it though for the scrog but as you said I'll get better use of the available light with scrog. I have a home made air cooled light box. The screen you can see there only has 1.5" holes, however it fitted the closet perfectly, and was right to hand when I needed it.

About the longer lateral branches - yup, completely agree with you. I thought about how I was going to train them if they vegged for much longer. What about super cropping them but bending the flower at 90 degree's so it grows in another direction? I was thinking about flipping tonight seeing as I have the bigger stems near the outsides already, which is the limit of the light penetration anyway.

I see what you mean now about training the stretch for the first half of flowering, you basically mean continue to train under the screen filling more bud sites and then in the last 4 or 5 weeks, let it grow up through the screen and fill the buds out? Makes sense to me


Pruning - I read up a lot about it. I was scared at first to cut back, but in the end I went pretty brutal and cleared anything that blocked light from the underlying internode growth. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger right?

It's my first scrog and I'm liking it. I've learned a lot already. I managed to totally mess the FIM up early on, I didn't cut it low enough so I just got deformed fan leaves LOL.


Thanks for stopping by. I'll probably update this. I didn't think about a diary at the start and I didn't want to do the same as everyone else. Maybe if I try something unique I might post it all up.


Laters


BET

 

[BET]

Is super cropping OK in the first few weeks of flower? I've read that it can create herms. Or, should I just LST the bigger stems instead? I need them to grow back into the netting, even if only at 90 degree angles...


Cheers

BET

 

[Scrogerman]

funny how the strain description is the same as 'DP's' - 'Dutch Cheese' which is also Euphoria x Unknown & ive seen another breeder/company with SuperCheese, but completely different desription, which actually mentions cheese in the cross. Its prolly what the unknown is in the name?>idk. sure she'll do well for ya, what eva she is.

You have got it on the stretch, thats the way to lose the stretch in the screen & keep your colas more compact. You'll have to pick n choose which potential colas you wanna keep(in your 20-30 total), prune the rest. Scrogs not easy to master, but very rewarding once you do...

 

[Scrogerman]

Is super cropping OK in the first few weeks of flower? I've read that it can create herms. Or, should I just LST the bigger stems instead? I need them to grow back into the netting, even if only at 90 degree angles...


Cheers

BET

Yoor scroggin so, its like using your screen with(instead of) LST basically(near enough the same thing but Scrog is like having stabilisers on a push bike-lol). dont bother topping anything, just keep training & working the scrog. its much easier to keep shape with scrog than LST alone, why i luv Scrog so much, makes it alot easier.

bending a branch or lateral 90degrees is having a similar effect to topping that branch, thats why you wont need to top anything else at all! all the secondary shoots will come on the same, thats the point. just keep working it, now & through most of stretch & you should be rocking!

 

[Scrogerman]

if you upload regular pics ill see if i can throw you some pointers(ill try n make them helpfull ones). looks like your doing ok atm. each time you pull that lateral back under the screen & move it to its new position, the next shoot/potenitial cola moves up into postion. the trick is to do it & keep everything even, keeping new growth in mind &thinking ahead! tops are always fighting for apical dominance.

cant you upload ya pics to IC bro?

 

[BET]

if you upload regular pics ill see if i can throw you some pointers(ill try n make them helpfull ones). looks like your doing ok atm. each time you pull that lateral back under the screen & move it to its new position, the next shoot/potenitial cola moves up into postion. the trick is to do it & keep everything even, keeping new growth in mind &thinking ahead!

cant you upload ya pics to IC bro?

Thanks for all the pointers, I have a habbit of jumping in two footed. I'll work the scrog.

So, you are saying I can still bend them at 90 degree's without the need to top, is that correct? Isn't that going to produce a super crop effect or are you talking about gently bending them, rather than crimping and bending...?


I'm happy to upload more pics. You mean I can upload direct to IC Mag? Hmmm, I shall investigate! I have just had a habit of uploading to imageshack, its a quick and easy way to troll idiots with absurd MS Paint works of art I used to create. Happy days.


I'll take some more today and see what I can do. Thanks again. Appreciate the insightful words

 

[Scrogerman]

Fk yeah, dont top nothing...

from what your saying youve grown these up, then put the screen on, is this right?

It doesnt really matter tbh. With my Scrogs i let each lateral grow up 2-4" through the screen, pull it back under(through the same hole it grew up through) & reposition the branch so it sits at 1/2(half) inch(do not weave). as you keep doing this, the branch grows & all the secondary shoots come up to fill the screen, thats the point preety much of doing a Scrog. its about max light distribution to the (what would of been) lower bud sites, making a screen of green, each bud gets the same penetrative light as the top cola! i know you know this, cause you said so!

 

[Scrogerman]

here you go check this out:http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/scrogorama.htm

this: http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/yor/lightresjs6.htm

i like this site(WELL I USED TO).

 

[BET]

OK, here goes nothing. Taken 10 minutes ago during lights out - some are blurred but my camera is on the way out, and my nice phone camera haveth no flash;














Hopefully they mean something more to you than they do to me


BET

 

[Scrogerman]

Yeah, looks like they'll need a bit more veg yet. your screen was set a little high, but it aint too bad at all, just gonna cost ya a bit of veg time, get better airflow anyway & ya gotta work under there etc.

Keep training & filling in for now, you can see what shoots are coming up to fill in, just gotta think ahead. pictures are usually deceiving. if the nodes were a bit titer it may have heped ya case.

how high have you got that 150 man?

its pretty hard to gauge everything from pics anyway. give em a 4 days to a week id say! see how they look then, just keep training & thinking where your new colas are gonna be going. you can see em coming. saying this it'd prolly fill in if you flipped em tommoro. just depends on what they do stretch. dont take pics during lights out will ya(fair-do's for going & getting pics now)! & i wouldnt let em get higher than 4" off that screen before i pulled em back under,max.

 

[BET]

Fk yeah, dont top nothing...

from what your saying youve grown these up, then put the screen on, is this right?

It doesnt really matter tbh. With my Scrogs i let each lateral grow up 2-4" through the screen, pull it back under(through the same hole it grew up through) & reposition the branch so it sits at 1/2(half) inch(do not weave). as you keep doing this, the branch grows & all the secondary shoots come up to fill the screen, thats the point preety much of doing a Scrog. its about max light distribution to the (what would of been) lower bud sites, making a screen of green, each bud gets the same penetrative light as the top cola! i know you know this, cause you said so!

Yarp. Grew to about a foot then put the screen on. I wasn't going to keep the screen at a foot from the medium, but I screwed the bloody wooden supports in too high like an idiot, so I ended up with about 15" instead. Its not bad though, it vegged really quick so the extra height hasn't been a problem other than having some more pruning to do. I also like the space it gives me to work under

I did a fair bit of research on scrog before doing this, and I've grown naturally once indoors, and twice outdoors a decade ago so I'm confident in most things I do. I know never to weave. I know a friend who did it and when it started to stretch it got really messy in there and he had a mare finding holes to put his cola's though. I also do exactly what you do, wait until about 3 or 4" through the holes and then pull back through and simply move outwards. Easy really. I'm finding the lower shoots are reaching for the light because of this, and the pruning gives them the light they need to become champs.


Cheers

BET

 

[BET]

Yeah, looks like they'll need a bit more veg yet. your screen was set a little high, but it aint too bad at all, just gonna cost ya a bit of veg time, get better airflow anyway & ya gotta work under there etc.

Keep training & filling in for now, you can see what shoots are coming up to fill in, just gotta think ahead. pictures are usually deceiving. if the nodes were a bit titer it may have heped ya case.

how high have you got that 150 man?

its pretty hard to gauge everything from pics anyway. give em a 4 days to a week id say! see how they look then, just keep training & thinking where your new colas are gonna be going. you can see em coming. saying this it'd prolly fill in if you flipped em tommoro. just depends on what they do stretch. dont take pics during lights out will ya!

Cool, I'll give them a few more days. Gives me time for the Canna terra flores to turn up in the post

Its interesting that the nodes are further apart because it didn't stretch during veg, I kept the HPS real close, under 10" the whole time. Currently it sits about 12" above the top of the highest flowers, so probably about 15" from the screen. Should I lower it? I can if needs be. Maybe the change in temps caused the nodes to be further away. Its been fairly constant temp, maybe a bit too hot really but being in an attic in the summer isn't easy going for cooling. The temps haven't been at extreme opposites during light and dark periods though... hmmm.

There are certainly some secondary shoots I want through the screen that need a few more days, after having had a look earlier. I'll give it until Sunday night and see how I'm doing. When you've pulled the main shoots back under, the secondary ones below really shoot up quickly, so I'm not expecting much time before they are poking through the screen.

 

[BET]

I think next grow will be a 250W HPS. There seems to be much love for this size bulb for scrog, and I can do more than one plant comfortably. I'm interested to see how much I get off the indica with the shorter flower time - the sativa was a bitch and took forEVER to flower... but, it was worth it

 

[#1cheesebuds]

Hey eric cartman wsup. ur cheese ladie is looking great.

ooo man do I miss growing my cheese seeds.

 

[Scrogerman]

Yarp. Grew to about a foot then put the screen on. I wasn't going to keep the screen at a foot from the medium, but I screwed the bloody wooden supports in too high like an idiot, so I ended up with about 15" instead. Its not bad though, it vegged really quick so the extra height hasn't been a problem other than having some more pruning to do. I also like the space it gives me to work under

I did a fair bit of research on scrog before doing this, and I've grown naturally once indoors, and twice outdoors a decade ago so I'm confident in most things I do. I know never to weave. I know a friend who did it and when it started to stretch it got really messy in there and he had a mare finding holes to put his cola's though. I also do exactly what you do, wait until about 3 or 4" through the holes and then pull back through and simply move outwards. Easy really. I'm finding the lower shoots are reaching for the light because of this, and the pruning gives them the light they need to become champs.


Cheers

BET

lol, do myself, whats a week or 2 lol! sounds like youve got it cracked on the theory. ive done one at 18"+ or something silly lol! bettered airflow to fk!

 

[Scrogerman]

Cool, I'll give them a few more days. Gives me time for the Canna terra flores to turn up in the post

Its interesting that the nodes are further apart because it didn't stretch during veg, I kept the HPS real close, under 10" the whole time. Currently it sits about 12" above the top of the highest flowers, so probably about 15" from the screen. Should I lower it? I can if needs be. Maybe the change in temps caused the nodes to be further away. Its been fairly constant temp, maybe a bit too hot really but being in an attic in the summer isn't easy going for cooling. The temps haven't been at extreme opposites during light and dark periods though... hmmm.

There are certainly some secondary shoots I want through the screen that need a few more days, after having had a look earlier. I'll give it until Sunday night and see how I'm doing. When you've pulled the main shoots back under, the secondary ones below really shoot up quickly, so I'm not expecting much time before they are poking through the screen.

Bit closer i would bro, but if its a toss up between cookin them & light id lift the fker too at theis stage tbh. should be fine for now imo... sunday looks about right to me too. jungle is the last thing you want imo. More bud sites(too many) just means smaller buds in scrog ime.
On the shoots, yeah they become apical dominant & just take over so they need moving too, too many & its get the scissors out!

cheesebuds in the ouse, cool as! is this your cross is it man lol?

 

[BET]

Hey eric cartman wsup. ur cheese ladie is looking great.

ooo man do I miss growing my cheese seeds.

OOOOH YEAH! Got ma cheese oooooown Thanks for stopping by. I had to give this strain a go because the bud a friend grew was so god damned tasty!

 

[BET]

Bit closer i would bro, but if its a toss up between cookin them & light id lift the fker too at theis stage tbh. should be fine for now imo... sunday looks about right to me too. jungle is the last thing you want imo. More bud sites(too many) just means smaller buds in scrog ime.
On the shoots, yeah they become apical dominant & just take over so they need moving too, too many & its get the scissors out!

I can have them closer. MOAR LUMENS!

I also thought that about the 'more bud sites = smaller buds', at least in theory. I'm glad you back that up. I know people who have gotten greedy and gone all out for maximum bud sites and they ended up with airy buds that were not good at all. I want potency like week old road kill - in the summer