SBS AF - Comparison - warm vs cool

[Stress_test]

Soil, Hand water, 1-1/2 gal. pots
1000W MH, 400 HPS (both groups)
Germinated seeds, planted 11/13/2010.
AF hybrid (it's PK x, NL and ak47 crossed w/Ruderalis)
Flipped 12/12 on 12/4/10
4 plants each groups
Plants separated 1 week after breaking ground
Cool temps = lights on 50-55F/off 40F.
Warm temps = constant 70-75F

A couple years ago I began playing w/ AF's and was pretty much discouraged with what was available from vendors. So I messed around trying to breed an AF strain of my own that would allow for a short growing season and still give a descent yield without huge obtrusive plants. WOW what a learning curve and I am still learning daily.

A friend in BC had began creation of the strain I am currently growing and was 2 generations ahead of mine so after trying his I pretty much settled on it and have grown it almost exclusively as far as AF's go since then.

So a couple months ago we were discussing issue with both of of harvests and little tweaks that we thought might help produce a better yield and potency.
We decided to try this test since Ruderalis is ideal for cultivation in cooler climates and areas where conditions are harsher.

So here are pictures of the Control group (CG1).



Pictures of the Test group (TG1).



So far I believe that TG1 is going to surpass CG1 in 4 different areas: Yield, potency, time from seed to harvest, and odor.

TG1 literally requires no exhaust filtration while CG1 is barley beginning the flower and is already smelling pretty strong.

 

[Sleepy]

i'm going to allow this one...

even though you are not using clones, i will allow it this once.

thank you for getting us going!

 

[VerdantGreen]

good call sleepy guess its pretty hard to clone autos.

Stress test could you just confirm which group is which please - which are the ones in the warm temps and which are in the cool.

thanks

VG

 

[Krull]

Nice one



=K

 

[Stress_test]

i'm going to allow this one...

even though you are not using clones, i will allow it this once.

thank you for getting us going!

Thanks Sleepy.
I have been getting requests to publish this from several other members who are curios about how it will turn out.

good call sleepy guess its pretty hard to clone autos.

Stress test could you just confirm which group is which please - which are the ones in the warm temps and which are in the cool.

thanks

VG

VerdantGreen, the control group is being grown in warm temps.
The test group is cooler.
All other variables are the same.

I will try and make updates daily or as regular as possible.

EDIT: Oh and that is another test thread I was going to do after this one, if it is going to be okay.
I have been cloning these ladies for awhile now with about 80-90% success. However a lot of people here have been asking about how they perform compared to seed plants. I have 5 generations of clones for this strain. So the plan is to take a clone of each generation and see how they all finish out. Speculation is that each successive generation will decrease plant performance and potency.

 

[blimblom]

nice try Stress_test in an area where we have less knowledge (AF strains).

a question though. Why do you use a 12/12 photoperiod? Arent your AF strain photoperiod independent?
Because from what I ve read AF flower according to their age.

thanks again for your test

 

[Stress_test]

nice try Stress_test in an area where we have less knowledge (AF strains).

a question though. Why do you use a 12/12 photoperiod? Arent your AF strain photoperiod independent?
Because from what I ve read AF flower according to their age.

thanks again for your test

Good question.

Most mj strains begin to flower once the dark periods reach the plant's critical night length. Generally, there is a specific period of darkness required before they begin flowering. Many Indicas begin to flower when the daylight hours drop to about 13 or 14 hours, Sativas usually won't begin flowering until light is reduced to 12 hours a day.
Ruderalis/hybrids flower automatically when they reach a given maturity, regardless of photoperiod. Even with lights on 24 hours a day, the Ruderalis genes of the plant will trigger flowering.
But remember that these are "Ruderalis/Indica" or "Ruderalis/Sativa" "Hybrids". There are other genes that we want to exploit also. After all that is the entire reason for creating the Hybrid in the first place.
If we grow a Rudy/cross in the same way we would a pure Ruderalis then we end up with a finish crop that has given strains like "Lowryder" a bad reputation. How many time have you heard people say, "Yeah, it's a ruderalis/hybrid. Not the best stuff you'll ever smoke, but better than Mexican brickweed" ? That's because people disreguard the fact that there are other genes that are being neglected.

I only want to exploit 3 traits from the Ruderalis gene pool: Compact size and the auto flowering trait and a sturdy tough plant that can handle harsher climates.
After that I want the "real" genetics to take over, because smoking Ruderalis buds wouldn't be very satisfying.

So the trick is to find the environmental conditions that compliment and exploit specific traits of BOTH sides of the gene pool.

 

[blimblom]

If I understand correctly, you havent reached your goals according to the 3 traits youve been searching for, thats why you induce a 12/12 photoperiod for this particular gene pool.

So the only traits you really need from the ruderalis gene pool are the autoflower and the compact size, while you want the quality and the potency of a sativa/indica.

good luck with your gene hunting and your test. We are waiting results

 

[Rjstoner]

i dont get the point we all know plants dont like it too cold or too hot or you wouldnt have people trying to keep 75-78 light on temp and 68 light off temp the cold group will be small and stunted the group in the correct heat should flourish

 

[blimblom]

well Rjstoner thats the point of this test. It wants to understand if the condition you described about the best temperatures for the plants applies to ruderalis hybrids.

ruderalis genes are found in wetter colder lesser sunny climates.
The understanding we have about cannabis plants applies to tropical sativas and more temperate indicas.
Ruderalis was out of the question for most growers, but in the last years some people are trying to take advantage of some ruderalis traits in their hybrid strains (like the sturdier structure and the autoflower feature).
So in the processs maybe these new hybrid plants are better of in colder temperatures, thats what this test is trying to establish.

 

[Rjstoner]

ok but when it comes back the hybrids still grow best in 72-78f heat dont say i didnt tell ya so

on a side note i am not a fan of AF ruderalis has little to no thc but if you cross it right more power to you im just wondering. was it hard when breeding to lock down a good high with all 3 traits you wanted to keep? and how consistant are your beans comming out as far as phenotypes?

 

[Stress_test]

i dont get the point we all know plants dont like it too cold or too hot or you wouldnt have people trying to keep 75-78 light on temp and 68 light off temp the cold group will be small and stunted the group in the correct heat should flourish

Right on... I didn't get it either until last winter when the power was out over most of the county and temperatures dropped off below zero. I was able to set 3 Coleman lanterns in my room for light and all my Rudi/Hybrids survived in cold temperatures, while every other strains I had died days before power was restored.

well Rjstoner thats the point of this test. It wants to understand if the condition you described about the best temperatures for the plants applies to ruderalis hybrids.

ruderalis genes are found in wetter colder lesser sunny climates.
The understanding we have about cannabis plants applies to tropical sativas and more temperate indicas.
Ruderalis was out of the question for most growers, but in the last years some people are trying to take advantage of some ruderalis traits in their hybrid strains (like the sturdier structure and the autoflower feature).
So in the processs maybe these new hybrid plants are better of in colder temperatures, thats what this test is trying to establish.

You got it buddy! So little is known about the Ruderalis in comparison to Sativa and Indica.

ok but when it comes back the hybrids still grow best in 72-78f heat dont say i didnt tell ya so

on a side note i am not a fan of AF ruderalis has little to no thc but if you cross it right more power to you im just wondering. was it hard when breeding to lock down a good high with all 3 traits you wanted to keep? and how consistant are your beans comming out as far as phenotypes?

It threw us some curve balls for sure. During the first seed run I mis-marked a seed female, (she was suppose to be a Rudi/PK) which turned out to be a pure Rudi so it caused some confusion when our plant count didn't add up. But we caught it, culled all of that cycle of plants and backed up one to where we KNEW everything was perfect.
Most of the difficulty/confusion was our own fault or failure to label every single plant and seed, and then keep from mixing them up while transplanting and such.

 

[Stress_test]

Now an UPDATE:

Day before yesterday I defoliated all the ladies. Not completely but I removed enough fan leaves to allow light to the lower limbs and buds.
3 days later they are really enjoying the light.


Lastnight was the first time they have gotten full strength nutes. Which is Green Light, Super Bloom, 12-55-6 w/ .10% Chelated Iron.

CG1 is looking beautiful. A luscious deep green and the colors are just starting to come out.
Buds are developing way faster than WG1 and beginning to get frosty.
Plant growth seems to have slowed, although there is still noticeable growth daily.



WG1 is also looking beautiful. A huge difference in color. These girls are more a lighter green.
Lots of bud sites and far more vertical and vegetative growth than CG1.
Buds are beginning to form and a light frost is just starting to develop.

 

[alexonfire]

HAppy New Year!
I love the look of your plants, they are going to swell up nicely

 

[r1rider]

Nice to see this experiment Stress test, good to see that growers like you keep pushing the boundry`s.
Another grower i know on another site only grows autos, and has great success doing it, i`v got some of his beans, and i`d like to give it a try someday

r1

 

[Stress_test]

Nice to see this experiment Stress test, good to see that growers like you keep pushing the boundry`s.
Another grower i know on another site only grows autos, and has great success doing it, i`v got some of his beans, and i`d like to give it a try someday

r1

Thanks for the props R1rider.
I am maxed out right now for my plant count and still be legal, but my next step is going to be feminizing a seed crop with colloidal silver.
Although these Rudi's can be cloned, it can be slower sometimes than just starting seeds. The feminized seeds will help ALOT.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

can you point out which group is which?

i know one is the test group and one is a control but you never actually told us which one was which? is the control group the ones in the cold or the ones in the heat?

 

[Stress_test]

can you point out which group is which?

i know one is the test group and one is a control but you never actually told us which one was which? is the control group the ones in the cold or the ones in the heat?

Sorry bout that, I thought I had already done that.
The control group is being grown just like we would generally grow, normal temps, food, etc...

In any test where a control is used, the control is typical, or unchanged, the norm.

 

[blimblom]

@stress-test can you explain a little bit about the colloidal silver feminizing? I thought in order to feminaze a strain you have to leave the plan to grow in a pollen free enviroment for enough time in order to force it go hermie and clone itself.

 

[Stress_test]

@stress-test can you explain a little bit about the colloidal silver feminizing? I thought in order to feminaze a strain you have to leave the plan to grow in a pollen free enviroment for enough time in order to force it go hermie and clone itself.

Yes that is one technique used for feminizing. However a lot of growers don't like to create hermies through stress. Many believe it basically is creating a strain that is prone to hermies.

I have mostly used STS which is a very similar process to CS. For me STS is easier because I love photography and have chemicals and everything on hand in my darkroom.

After reading your question I went and was reading some of the literature I have acquired over the years, looking for a good reference to give you.

So I am putting a thread together that explains the various methods of sex reversal in cannabis. Part of it is already up, check my threads.