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Sante Fe Compact 2????
- Thread starter M1XW311
- Start date
shredGnar
Member
Because they are a fucking joke...
That 70 pint figure is based on saturated air at 90*f.
Does not take much to dehumidify at those numbers. They also are super inefficient, therefore putting out tons of heat.
Additionally, good luck running them below 63*ish. They do nothing but ice over and then auto defrost, which allows your rh to climb while they are inoperable.
Basically are worthless at cooler temps, so if you're running these no cold dumps to induce colors for you...
That sante fe dehuey bases it's number off a standard of 60% rh and 80* and although are not an lgr dehuey, still claim to pull moisture out at lower temps.
After buying 4 cheapo so called 70 pint Amazon dehueys ,that still did not cut it, I stepped up to the real deal Shit and got a Phoenix, basically same company as Sante fe. Dri eaz are hard to beat, but very expensive.
Also nice to be able to run the dehuey outside the room and duct air from the room the the unit, back into room nice and dry.
A fucking joke huh? You seem to be lumping all Dehums that are not Santa Fe or Phoenix together. Quality varies brand to brand. The 70 pint Friedrich bases it on 80F and 60%. Neither of mine have ever frosted up. I have operated them down to high 50s, but usually low-mid 60s are the lowest I let temps go.
If you're telling me that the ones that cost about 5 times as much are more efficient, I won't argue, I agree. They should be for that price. It's a matter of cost [initial outlay, cost of operation] against the life of the machine in years.
Key spec: Friedrich 1.8L/Kw, Santa Fe 2.4L/Kw, 25% cheaper to operate the Santa Fe. Phoenix didn't list that.
So after you buy a humidistat for your Phoenix, make sure you go turn it back on manually after a power outage, if you didn't sleep thru it. Good luck. -granger
If you're telling me that the ones that cost about 5 times as much are more efficient, I won't argue, I agree. They should be for that price. It's a matter of cost [initial outlay, cost of operation] against the life of the machine in years.
Key spec: Friedrich 1.8L/Kw, Santa Fe 2.4L/Kw, 25% cheaper to operate the Santa Fe. Phoenix didn't list that.
So after you buy a humidistat for your Phoenix, make sure you go turn it back on manually after a power outage, if you didn't sleep thru it. Good luck. -granger
shred fella, you say so many things that are so wrong
you dump on us that don't run the big santa fe drieaze dehuey's
and have or are considering the smaller dehuey's
1st let me stack my 50 pt friedrich against your claims above with
your $2000+sante fe
specs list 105pt @80f 60%RH
that's only a 10deg diff. from the *joke* dehueys specs you mentioned
i use 2 50pts friedrich units in my room,
14 x 20 running 8000w
the most water I ever collected in buckets over nite when plants dump the Co2 and RH goes thru the roof is about 7gallons of water combined or 28pts
the fact that you have a minisplit AC in the room means it's also taking RH down and removing water.
before lights on this morning my RH was 36 temp72F
awhile back I realized 1 of my units was not plugged in
for about a week.
checking it out on my RH/temp/Co2 data logger it took an extra 23 minutes average after lites out to get the RH to the dehueys set point at, 45% when 2 units were running.
I really don't need the 2 dehueys
but having 2 points in the room removing humidity is way mo efficient than 1.
maybe as efficient as the sante fe??
definitely evening it up some, eh.
anyways, your claiming
OR---> tons of heat as as compared to what?
your making a pretty baseless inane statement there.
I've seen how much heat is put out every nite for the last 18months.
it's nowhere near tons and i have to say from real hands on exp.
it's nowhere near as bad as I expected and i wouldn't think a nite-n-day difference from the $2000+ unit
you really have no clue when you also say.....
the 70pt friedrich granger mentions and mty 50pt has a low temp operation of 41F
the $2000+ sante fe--->56F
not only are you wrong BUT the joke $265 friedrich unit beats the $2000+ sante fe by 14 degrees
for a minute just forget that fact about low temp issues you mentioned,
in reality have you ever tried running your gro rooms at 63F or lower??
I did, the coldest i could get mine at lites out was 65ish.
in a 14 x 20 room with average R45 insulative value,
or actually a bit better insulated than a walkin cooler
with a 32,500BTU mr slim on the lowest setting.
of course temps outside the room is a factor.
given that your saying you would pay an extra $1800 on a dehuey that can operate in temps you may not achieve?
and/or in temps my $265 dehuey could?
if you live where it gets cold enuff you could open doors and blow the cold inside the room..
in which case you won't need the dehuey
bottom line is yes, the sante fe outperforms my 50pt fried--->period no comparison.
if your running a large commercial gro it's obvious to get a commercial unit or several.
Q people need to ask themselves is
do I need all that performance of a commercial grade dehuey?
for my 8000w grow in a 14 x 20ft room, I thought I did.
for people that want to get the larger commercial units,
it's your choice... go fer it brother!
NOW
for those of us that can't afford the big units
OR
decide a smaller unit will suit our needs,
no one should be talking down to me, granger
or anyone else in the idiotic way that's been done in this thread
btw, the my 50pt dehuey has a built in condensate pump, very convienent.... I likes it
the $2000+ sante fe doesn't... you have to pay extra $$$$ for it as another external doodad like the RH controller you'll need to spend time hooking up etc etc
you dump on us that don't run the big santa fe drieaze dehuey's
and have or are considering the smaller dehuey's
1st let me stack my 50 pt friedrich against your claims above with
your $2000+sante fe
specs list 105pt @80f 60%RH
that's only a 10deg diff. from the *joke* dehueys specs you mentioned
i use 2 50pts friedrich units in my room,
14 x 20 running 8000w
the most water I ever collected in buckets over nite when plants dump the Co2 and RH goes thru the roof is about 7gallons of water combined or 28pts
the fact that you have a minisplit AC in the room means it's also taking RH down and removing water.
before lights on this morning my RH was 36 temp72F
awhile back I realized 1 of my units was not plugged in
for about a week.
checking it out on my RH/temp/Co2 data logger it took an extra 23 minutes average after lites out to get the RH to the dehueys set point at, 45% when 2 units were running.
I really don't need the 2 dehueys
but having 2 points in the room removing humidity is way mo efficient than 1.
maybe as efficient as the sante fe??
definitely evening it up some, eh.
anyways, your claiming
define tons of heat please.
OR---> tons of heat as as compared to what?
your making a pretty baseless inane statement there.
I've seen how much heat is put out every nite for the last 18months.
it's nowhere near tons and i have to say from real hands on exp.
it's nowhere near as bad as I expected and i wouldn't think a nite-n-day difference from the $2000+ unit
you really have no clue when you also say.....
we'd like to know exactly which units did you have that froze over??
the 70pt friedrich granger mentions and mty 50pt has a low temp operation of 41F
the $2000+ sante fe--->56F
not only are you wrong BUT the joke $265 friedrich unit beats the $2000+ sante fe by 14 degrees
for a minute just forget that fact about low temp issues you mentioned,
in reality have you ever tried running your gro rooms at 63F or lower??
I did, the coldest i could get mine at lites out was 65ish.
in a 14 x 20 room with average R45 insulative value,
or actually a bit better insulated than a walkin cooler
with a 32,500BTU mr slim on the lowest setting.
of course temps outside the room is a factor.
given that your saying you would pay an extra $1800 on a dehuey that can operate in temps you may not achieve?
and/or in temps my $265 dehuey could?
if you live where it gets cold enuff you could open doors and blow the cold inside the room..
in which case you won't need the dehuey
bottom line is yes, the sante fe outperforms my 50pt fried--->period no comparison.
if your running a large commercial gro it's obvious to get a commercial unit or several.
Q people need to ask themselves is
do I need all that performance of a commercial grade dehuey?
for my 8000w grow in a 14 x 20ft room, I thought I did.
for people that want to get the larger commercial units,
it's your choice... go fer it brother!
NOW
for those of us that can't afford the big units
OR
decide a smaller unit will suit our needs,
no one should be talking down to me, granger
or anyone else in the idiotic way that's been done in this thread
btw, the my 50pt dehuey has a built in condensate pump, very convienent.... I likes it
the $2000+ sante fe doesn't... you have to pay extra $$$$ for it as another external doodad like the RH controller you'll need to spend time hooking up etc etc
shredGnar
Member
Wasn't trying to offend anyone who uses the Amazon dehueys..if they work for you that is great. My experience is they are a fraction the efficiency and just do not work as well I'm any conditions, but especially in cold temps.
I do not use the sante fe, but the Phoenix 200 lgr. You cannot beat the low grain refrigerant dehueys
Perhaps you're right..I will have to see what brand I used to have that always froze below 60*
I also ran three of them and even made sure my night time temps were higher to maximize their efficiency and they still could not bring my rh below 70%. Super frustrating
However the Phoenix replaced three with much less amps and does a better job
I concede about the low temp comment and I saw that the Friedrich IS based on AHAM so I misspoke about that as well..
I guess I'm still pissed about my three that I got from amazon that are collecting dust.
I do use one for the drying room however that thing puts out a Shit load of heat I will need an a/c if I don't get something better
I do not use the sante fe, but the Phoenix 200 lgr. You cannot beat the low grain refrigerant dehueys
Perhaps you're right..I will have to see what brand I used to have that always froze below 60*
I also ran three of them and even made sure my night time temps were higher to maximize their efficiency and they still could not bring my rh below 70%. Super frustrating
However the Phoenix replaced three with much less amps and does a better job
I concede about the low temp comment and I saw that the Friedrich IS based on AHAM so I misspoke about that as well..
I guess I'm still pissed about my three that I got from amazon that are collecting dust.
I do use one for the drying room however that thing puts out a Shit load of heat I will need an a/c if I don't get something better
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dont forget to regularly clean and inspect the unit... its not uncommon for a filthy dehuy to overflow or stink. a filthy dehuy will operate poorly with respect to efficiency as well.
i suspect yours will have an especially hard life... the units documentation should contain recommendations for cleaning products and cleaning frequency.
i suspect yours will have an especially hard life... the units documentation should contain recommendations for cleaning products and cleaning frequency.
btw, the my 50pt dehuey has a built in condensate pump, very convienent.... I likes it
the $2000+ sante fe doesn't... you have to pay extra $$$$ for it as another external doodad like the RH controller you'll need to spend time hooking up etc etc
not to nit pick here... but to be fair to the whole house units, there is almost 0 point in including a condensate pump.
like i said, most of these are designed to compliment residential hvac systems. to that end they will be installed and connected to the gravity drain or condensate pump servicing the air handler.
regardles,given the multi thousand dollar cost of these units, the additional cost of a 30 dollar condensate pump & float switch is probably not going to phase the person with the cash for the unit in the first place.
with the exception of mini splits, an internal condensate pump is not terribly desirable imho. they will be more difficult to service, probably not terribly powerful, and could very well be shit quality.
condensate pumps require frequent inspection and cleaning. and as such should be readily accessible IMO.
i exempt mini splits because an external condensate pump would introduce some terrible ascetics.
given the choice, id prefer to handle the condensate myself with my own preferred brand of pump.
what are you using to data log temp and humidity BTW?
I see your point but given the nature of the opposing view,
kind of a david and goliath comparison of a commercial unit to a small single rm dehuey, pushing the point of the internal pump was inline and a valid comparison point,
as was Granger2 and the built in humidsat/controller comment.
but hey! why not... it's fuggin nice as hell and i have the option and hose provided for gravity draining like a
commercial unit if needed, right.
lets look bit closer, your saying my pump in my friedrich is prob not very powerful,
your saying one of those things like shredfella did with his heat comment.
SO
I have to ask as i did with shred---> not very powerful as compared to..... what?
Well lets take a pump sized for those $2000+dollar sante fe dehueys because I'm thinkin that's probably
what you were thinking when you said not very powerful. and it may not be a fair comparison to my friedrich.
that pump costing over a $100 has a head lift of 10ft, meaning it will pump the water 10Ft vertically
my $250 friedrich 50pt model has a 15ft head lift.......hmmmmm
for the cost of 2-1/2 of those pumps you can get a brand name friedrich 50pt dehuey that has a pump with 5ft **more head lift**
I think friedrich should put me on payroll cause I'm probably selling a boatload of dehueys for em
as far as a prob when breaking down that's exactly why you by a *reliable* brand like friedrich
and not junk from amazon as was mentioned,
or buy 4 of them???
that's what i didn't get, after he buys 1 piece of junk that isn't doing nothing he likes,
he goes and buy 3 more lol.... duh!
anyways at $250 a pop for my dehuey *if* the pump fails and it's not an easy fix,
and it's almost always a very easy to fix clog prob
like you said, for 35peso's my lazy butts back to being lazee
not emptying buckets after the nite run.NOW
since you brought that up,
you got me thinking,
Ive been using my $250 friedrich's going on 18 months
And i have 12,960 hours of nonstop flawless prob free A+performance
btw
i have a greeneye data logger as a back up Co2 monitor, used it for a few weeks and put it back in the box because my green air SPC-1 was 20x's more accurate
shredGnar
Member
Gnome,
I really don't get why you insist my comment was directed at you.. after all I was referring to a dehumidifier being a joke, not a person. It isn't like I said 'Fuck everyone who's ever bought a dehumidifier off Amazon.'
I was expressing my discontent with a product I purchased. So really you could just apply my first post to the dehuey I purchased, not yours. I assumed all the Chinese manufactured household units were practically the same. You guys insist differently, I'll have to take your word for it.
Also I didn't buy it then decide it sucked, then buy three more.. really? Who would do that?
It was my first attempt at a sealed room, I wasn't sure what size was necessary.
So based on advice from online, I purchased two, they did not cut it so I thought 'oh I just need more power', then purchased two more. Admittedly I could only cram three into my room and they still were inadequate.
So what was I going to do, take a chance on three more household units from amazon?
I am unable to tell how much water they are drawing, my air handler condensate, dehuey water and plant run off are all collected in a pvc manifold, which is attached to a Rubbermaid with a sump pump which pumps the water up and out automated. This is also why a condensate pump was undesirable and would just be an added expense for the end buyer (me).
Now my unit sits on the roof and ducts air back into the room dehumidified.
Again, if yours work for you then rock on.
Here is the ones I bought.. DO NOT recommend... Admittedly they are $100 less than the Friedrich
http://www.amazon.com/Keystone-Energy-Star-Dehumidifier-KSTAD70B/dp/B00CEZA018
Sorry, here's the link
I really don't get why you insist my comment was directed at you.. after all I was referring to a dehumidifier being a joke, not a person. It isn't like I said 'Fuck everyone who's ever bought a dehumidifier off Amazon.'
I was expressing my discontent with a product I purchased. So really you could just apply my first post to the dehuey I purchased, not yours. I assumed all the Chinese manufactured household units were practically the same. You guys insist differently, I'll have to take your word for it.
Also I didn't buy it then decide it sucked, then buy three more.. really? Who would do that?
It was my first attempt at a sealed room, I wasn't sure what size was necessary.
So based on advice from online, I purchased two, they did not cut it so I thought 'oh I just need more power', then purchased two more. Admittedly I could only cram three into my room and they still were inadequate.
So what was I going to do, take a chance on three more household units from amazon?
I am unable to tell how much water they are drawing, my air handler condensate, dehuey water and plant run off are all collected in a pvc manifold, which is attached to a Rubbermaid with a sump pump which pumps the water up and out automated. This is also why a condensate pump was undesirable and would just be an added expense for the end buyer (me).
Now my unit sits on the roof and ducts air back into the room dehumidified.
Again, if yours work for you then rock on.
Here is the ones I bought.. DO NOT recommend... Admittedly they are $100 less than the Friedrich
http://www.amazon.com/Keystone-Energy-Star-Dehumidifier-KSTAD70B/dp/B00CEZA018
Sorry, here's the link
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Ive been using my $250 friedrich's going on 18 months
And i have 12,960 hours of nonstop flawless prob free A+performance
And in that 18 months of flawless service you probably paid close to $1500 in additional electric bills over a Low-grain dehumidifier, calculated using your own figures! If you were to cash out at that point and consider residual value, you would be another $800 ahead of the basic friedrich.
I could go further and calculate the decreased AC costs associated with a de-huey that produces less heat, or mention that most don't pay list price, but i think the first paragraph is sufficient.
compared to the myriad of options you have available at any decent hvac supply house.
little giant pumps have never failed me, so they are my go to brand. 100 dollars for a condensate pump is a joke. like i said, a small condensate pump w/ internal over flow switch should cost around 30 bucks.
15 feet is probably more than enough for 90% of the users. however my point was, an internal condensate pump adds simplicity at the expense of ease of maintenance and overall flexibility.
as an example of this units inflexibility, 15 foot of head will not be enough in the rare case, wherein one would want to place the unit inside a first floor utility closet, and pump to an attic space above the second floor for example. in this case a 50' condensate pump would be required.
70 pints per day is very low. you do not need an especially large pump to handle this flow. its far less than the flows your average 2 ton window unit can produce.
its not clear to me if there is some means whereby this dehuy can be set up to gravity grain... if it can, great.
if not, its still not a huge issue, just a potential problem imho.
not every one is content to simply wait for a failure to occur before servicing a part or a system. there are many folks like myself that will regularly inspect/clean coils, condensate pumps, blower wheels, caps etc. for issues that may or may not crop up in the coming summer/winter. like minded folks will find these condensate pumps more difficult to live with.
here we go again with words like probably and close
adding up to a $1500 figure over 18months?
AND
your saying I'm paying even MORE than that.
that sounds more calculating than calculated
take 18months $1500, nothing extra.
my dehueys run $83.33 a month by your figure
lets compare that $1500plus figure to what my mini split runs which should run way WAY more, right?,
btw it's on its own meter base so the figures are EXACT, not probably or close
@18hr veg-->$165 for 6000w of lamps
all mag ballasts are in the room and put out 160F of heat each.
all fans, pumps running 24/7 also incl with what ever else i have plugged in.
in bloom 12hrs a day runs around $116 with 12hr nitely with the dehueys
with the specs on my dehuey and my elec. rate of .11per KWH
plugging it into an elec. calculator
I get $23.84 mo. a yearly cost of $309.92
so in the last 18mo. it's run me $500.64,
2 units and it's a even grand.
right off the bat were way lower than your figure by $500,
higher if compared to a better unit as you say.
now lets put that $1000 figure into a contex of actual usage
that figure goes even lower because:
#1 i pay a lower elec.rate for my 1st 1000KWH of use
so deduct more from the $1000
#2 this is the big item,
they cycle on and off and only run under load depending on set point+RH
earlier i said at lites on I have 35%RH,
dehuey setpoint is @45%
SO at some point before lites on so the AC is doing the work not the dehueys.
even during the bulk of the nite dump of C02 + heavy transpiration of moisture the dehuey's are cycling on and off as humidity is removed as per set point
Ive been average1-1/4gal per 12hr run
combined 2-1/2 gal.
OR--->20pints that is 10pts per unit
10 pts is 1/5th of the 50pts rated for each 50pt DH.
obviously it doesn't take 12hrs to scrub the 10 pt and the bulk of the 10pts is during the time the pants are dumping.
so after the bulk of the moisture is scrubbed from the air the dehuey's are not under load with the AC doing the scrubbing.
so the 18mo figure using dehuey specs and the online elec.calc usage sum $1000,
now minus the diff. between the dehueys cycling and under load
realistically the figure of what I'm paying is 30-40% less than the $1000 figure.
comparing figures of $1500PLUS this figure your tootin sounds and looks like it was pulled out some dark stanky hole
$116 a month to cool 6KWs of lamps and ballasts in bloom.
yeah man for fuggin sure those dehueys gotta be jacking the bill, eh prune
you go right ahead and calculate away all you need to.
I doubt I could feel I'm getting any more of a steal with my friedrich 50s thanks to you
BTW
I agree, that 1st paragraph did it for me too
amen to ya brother Prune!
M1XW311,
Are you using a swamp cooler? An evaporative cooler? Just noticed this from re-reading. If so, no wonder you have humidity problems. Your "AC" is humidifying your air instead of dehumidifying it like a real AC. You'd be better off replacing it with a real AC, and you probably won't need much dehumidifying. Or way less. -granger
Are you using a swamp cooler? An evaporative cooler? Just noticed this from re-reading. If so, no wonder you have humidity problems. Your "AC" is humidifying your air instead of dehumidifying it like a real AC. You'd be better off replacing it with a real AC, and you probably won't need much dehumidifying. Or way less. -granger
no hes using a chiller.
you can get equal dehumidification from a chiller... just not with the shitbox fan coils offered from hydro logic and there other shitbox companies.
you can get equal dehumidification from a chiller... just not with the shitbox fan coils offered from hydro logic and there other shitbox companies.
M1XW311,
1. Are you running a sealed room? Door shut?
2. Do you have standing water in the room from runoff or any other source?
3. Are your dehums and AC [chiller] running 24-7?
4. What are the AC and dehums set at?
5. You're running 3-70 pint dehums all at once?
-granger
1. Are you running a sealed room? Door shut?
2. Do you have standing water in the room from runoff or any other source?
3. Are your dehums and AC [chiller] running 24-7?
4. What are the AC and dehums set at?
5. You're running 3-70 pint dehums all at once?
-granger
we haven't heard the particulars of the grow yet.
exactly what is your RH when your saying 1-2% lower?
what is it before and after and at what time?
day or nite?
also what are your temps when with the readings?
are you using coco, soil ? beds or pots... what sizes how many... hydro?
if your running coco/soil beds, they pump out the humidity.
exactly what is your RH when your saying 1-2% lower?
what is it before and after and at what time?
day or nite?
also what are your temps when with the readings?
are you using coco, soil ? beds or pots... what sizes how many... hydro?
if your running coco/soil beds, they pump out the humidity.
