Safest way to use a non-grounded plug....

[Neuronaut]

I live in an older home and none of the outlets are grounded. Now I already know that I should have them professionally replaced... but thats not what this thread is about. The topic is... what is the safest way of using a non grounded plug for a grow.

You'll need a 2 prong adapter ofcouse. I've heard of people trying to ground the outlet themselves by attaching a wire to a nearby water pipe or ground rod... but this isn't possible in my case.

I was thinking i could use one of these ( http://www.altgarden.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=478 ) to connect directly to the two prong adapter. Then using a power strip with a surge protector. All powerstrips and extension cords would ofcourse be of proper guage to handle the amperage.

Ofcourse you don't ever want to use more than 80% of the max amperage of the outlet. Can anyone think of any way of adding more safeguards... Lets hear some ideas.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

That GFCI won't do anything to help your situation. IMO, there is no safe way to do it unless you run a ground...safety's not something to play around with when a failure can lead to a fire, death or prison.

 

[Neuronaut]

The GFCI surely surves a purpose.

 

[Neuronaut]

And one more thing... i appreciate everyones advice... but again... this is not the place for lectures. This is to provide people with the 2nd best possible alternative. I personally am having my plugs redone very soon. But being in this situation has made me realize that there are probably a lot of people out there growing with out a grounded plug and i am just curious as to what precautions can be made to LIMIT the amount of risk.

 

[Mr GreenJeans]

Neuronaut
Don't think MTFS was revving up for a lecture. Grounding is grounding - by definition you can't have a functional GFCI without a ground. From How Ground Fault Protection Works

"The GFCI is designed to protect people from severe or fatal electric shocks. Because a GFCI detects ground faults, it can also prevent some electrical fires and reduce the severity of others by interrupting the flow of electric current."

Can't detect a ground fault without a ground! A ground could even be an extra wire run to a cold water pipe pounded into the ground outside. Had an electrician do that to one place I lived without having to rewire the whole house.

Cheers -

 

[Neuronaut]

Oh I know MTF wasn't. He has already been a great help to me conserning ventilation and i have witnessed how much he contributes to our community. I just wanted to say that because i know this is a touchy subject and it seems like every thread i've read on it contains a lecture or two.

But that makes sense that the GFCI wouldn't work without a ground. Atleast I've learned that much.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

lol...wasn't plannin on a lecture, just looking out for the fellow growers

Really, there's no way around using a ground if you want a reasonably safe setup. I've seen folks use them 3 prong > 2 prong adapters that have a tab on them and just run a wire from the tab through a window/hole in the wall to a grounded pipe/rod...but it wouldn't be my first choice even though it's a pretty reliable ground.

What you're doing by getting the outlets redone is the best way IMO...although it may not be the cheapest. About the only other option would be to have the house rewired which is a great upgrade to an older home, but it's gonna probably run $2-3K+ depending on the number of circuits and the size of the home.

 

[Guest]

MTF-SANDMAN and Mr.GreenJeans........You both are to be commended for if nothin else ,lookin out for us pore`ol head stoners.........The scope of knowledge on practically any subject is an inspiration to us all.........My question is as I have the same situation in an older home I recently closed on.....All and I mean all receptacles are 2 prong and the panels of course are fusible with pullouts...............House was built in 59 so I was hopin that I could hook up a sub-panel for the basement rooms and ground them out to a groundrod outside,or rather if thats a viable question since the whole home is ungrounded...........Thanks again and I hope this wasnt inappropriate.........PEACE.........DHF................

 

[Guest]

the liitle ring on the adapter is for you to attach it w/ the outlet plate screw. which in turn bonds thru the device to the box (which hopefully is metal) and you should have bx feeding your device in an older home, which has a metal clad cover which tech is the ground. unless you have knob and tube (single conductor runs) in your house, which would really suck for you, because then you have NO grounding capability whatsoever thru the device. even OLDER homes should at least have a water pipe ground. might not have ground rod(S), but tech everything grounds out thru the grounded conductor (neutral) at the main panel.

 

[Neuronaut]

So let me get this right... if the box which contains the outlet is metal (which it is and it has a metal rod containin the wires leading from it up to the attic) then i can ground the plug adapter by screwing in that screw??? SOrry, i'm trying to understand.

 

[Guest]

Look at it this way,if there is a short the current will go to ground through the METAL screw attached to a METAL box which in turn is fed my a METAL sheathed cable(like bx or mc cable) which goes back to the panel box which is METAL,and the panel is grounded.As you can see this wont work is the box is plastic or the cable feeding the box is plastic sheathed(like romex).

 

[Neuronaut]

so would the gfci work then?

 

[MTF-Sandman]

As long as the outlet box is connected all the way back to the main panel via EMT or another metal ducting...yes, it will work. Be careful grounding to metal boxes though...sometimes they are just metal boxes without the conduit. That was one of the reasons I rewired my place...

 

[Guest]

Like sandman said if you have a ground from the receptacle to the panel,the GFI will work,without a ground the GFI wont work correctly.The device trips when it senses a change in current from line to ground,if there is no ground wire it cant do that.It will work,just not like a GFI should work

 

[mace_ecam]

Shouldn't the thread title be changed?

From "Safest way to use a non-grounded plug...." into something like "Unsafe way to use a non-grounded plug...."?

Never forget that you are talking to stoners here, some might try it for the very first time, lots of room for murphys laws to come into play, that can lead to dramas...

 

[Guest]

this stoner right here has been an electrician for a long time. (and a good 1 too) so you can trust "watt" i say.lol