Roots dying

[Deft]

Roots have been dying off, turning brown and killing my plants. Need help determining what it could be.

Here are the pics






I've had huge problems with mold or something similar eating seeds before they can establish in past and I think that might be what is causing my plants to die. Plants die regardless of how much water they get, the roots turn brown and woody and then die.

There is nothing visible to the naked eye living in the soil, but cuttings in my bubble cloner are getting translucent slime on them and they have been sitting not rooting for weeks now... Same goes for cuttings in cups of soil.

I've filled out the question are and made threads before, asked a lot of people but have not fixed whatever I am doing wrong. I'll go copy a recently filled out forum and post it below.

 

[Deft]

Forum

Forum

What STRAIN are you growing?--- happened on durban, various MMM from sag, derailed blues, biddy early.
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)----Numerous examples of both have had the problem.
What is the age of your plants?--- The problem starts when plants are getting vigorous each time, maybe a month in.
How Tall are the plants?---3" to 1.5'.
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?--- It happens in veg or if I do a fast switch in flower, usually starts a few weeks into a rooted seedling/cutting and worsens to near death/death.
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)---- Potting up to big pots and flowering, going to do sog when I get healthy plants again.
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)one plant per 2.5-3 gal pot and a few 4" pots
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) I've tried fafard potting, fafard container, local compost + peat mix they sell, and local soils known to be damn good for similar plants.. All with perlite dolo and somtimes kelp ewc gypsum, once a little sulfur.
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*---- Schultz 17/19/29 tomato with micros used sparingly every other watering or not at all, super thrive once or twice in veg @ 1 drop per gallon, molasses rarely, schultz bloom+ 10/54/10 sparingly and very rarely in flower, Neptune's harvest+ kelp every 5 waterings or so @ half recommended.
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?----No idea I only have a ph meter.
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?--- Was 6.4 the other day, added a bit of lime to the tops of pots.
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? Milwaukee ph pen calibrated at 4 and 7.
How often are you watering?--- whenever the pots feel light, or if my finger goes all the way in and is bone dry, sometimes keep a chopstick in the pot and pull it like a dipstick on a car to see if there is moisture in the core.
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?----A while ago as roots are dying and plant growth slowing.
What size bulb are you using?--- 250HPS
What is the distance to the canopy?--- probably a foot and a half now, its whatever doesn't bother my hand after a minute or so to check under the light.
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)--- 38 right now, it goes up to 50 but its usually 40-50.
What is the canopy temperature?---85 or so.
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)--- At night I don't know, don't have a peak meter, during the day its 80 give or take 3*
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)---I have not installed a venting system in the closet yet but am getting everything together to do so.
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?-----I have one blowing on them.
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?--- No I let it dry out before applying water.
Is your water HARD or SOFT?--- hard I think, there is a soluble white solid and the ph is way up there at 8.5 usually, have recorded 10.5 once.
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?---Currently collected rainwater/snow left to melt.
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?--- no doesn't seem to make a difference.
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?--- No, I haven't had problems with pests since my first grow to my knowledge.
Are plant's infected with pest's?---- I do not think so, I've had spider mites and fungus gnats in past though and gotten rid of both easily.

 

[Miko]

A few thoughts I had:
Sterilized soil?
Make sure it isn't too hot in there, 85 shouldn't be a problem provided plants hae enough water t drink.
I think your nutes aren't well ballanced but I have no experience with the brand.
I'd check EC levels.
Snow/rain water could be the reason you're having problems
It is good to make sure the soil is gettin adecuately moist, may be try watering with a sprayer.

In the picks it looks more like overheated soil to me.

 

[MynameStitch]

Hey deft, sorry it took me so long dude to where you had to make a thread
I got injured badly and have limited my time online the past week it seems.
I had a severe reaction to a kind of food I ate and it nearly killed me.
So from me getting sick so much I tripped and fell and messed up one rib and colar bone so it hurts, feels like someone is trying to pull out my colar bone.... like pull it forward, this is my last post for today...... so if you need something else right away, you could either wait for my boyfriend to come home and he can type for me or you can ask Headypete,Core digital happy and others who help out a ton here.




Those plants look like it's not getting enough water, those roots looked healthy if you are able to pull them plants up like that and break easily; it's due to lack of water from the root structure being broken down from being too dry too often.

You can't let the soil be bone dry soil has to stay moist all the time, but not saturated.....

those root hairs died from being dry, see how scroney looking they are? they are not supposed to be looking like that........ root hairs turn brown before they die, but with yours looked like they turned brown tryed to recover and then died again, this is due to when you water they get there water they need, but after you water them they need more due to them being so thirsty, so by the time you water them again it's too late they have already died and it slowly goes to the top.

The way a plant works if it's hurting for water, the root hairs will look for water, the plant will produce more root hairs and when it finds a specific source of water it will send the water fromk root hairs to the main tap root and the areas where there is not enough water say on the right side it will die or kill off root hairs to try to save up as much moisture as possible to send to the main tap root.

tried this when I was in high school when we were growing in clear containers and only watering one side of the pot to see what would happen in biology

 

[Deft]

Like I said to ya when I brought you the problem, I know you do a lot on the site and answer a lot of questions so take all the time you feel like because I'm the one asking for help lol. I wonder if I'd spot wtf I'm doing wrong if I looked at things fresh. I've been lazy in figuring out what I'm doing wrong so don't feel like you need to do get on here and help me out anytime soon, rest up and take care of yourself or better yet have the boyfriend take care

I'm going to clean everything out and get some fafard container mix which I have had the best success with. I like its balance between water and air so maybe that'll help me get the watering back in balance and be more forgiving all around.

Hey deft, sorry it took me so long dude to where you had to make a thread
I got injured badly and have limited my time online the past week it seems.
I had a severe reaction to a kind of food I ate and it nearly killed me.
So from me getting sick so much I tripped and fell and messed up one rib and colar bone so it hurts, feels like someone is trying to pull out my colar bone.... like pull it forward, this is my last post for today...... so if you need something else right away, you could either wait for my boyfriend to come home and he can type for me or you can ask Headypete,Core digital happy and others who help out a ton here.




Those plants look like it's not getting enough water, those roots looked healthy if you are able to pull them plants up like that and break easily; it's due to lack of water from the root structure being broken down from being too dry too often.

You can't let the soil be bone dry soil has to stay moist all the time, but not saturated.....

those root hairs died from being dry, see how scroney looking they are? they are not supposed to be looking like that........ root hairs turn brown before they die, but with yours looked like they turned brown tryed to recover and then died again, this is due to when you water they get there water they need, but after you water them they need more due to them being so thirsty, so by the time you water them again it's too late they have already died and it slowly goes to the top.

The way a plant works if it's hurting for water, the root hairs will look for water, the plant will produce more root hairs and when it finds a specific source of water it will send the water fromk root hairs to the main tap root and the areas where there is not enough water say on the right side it will die or kill off root hairs to try to save up as much moisture as possible to send to the main tap root.

tried this when I was in high school when we were growing in clear containers and only watering one side of the pot to see what would happen in biology

 

[MynameStitch]

WHat is your watering habits like?
Like how often do you water and when you water do you let run off come out the bottoms?
Do you put the plants in the proper pot size, not too big not too small?

 

[Deft]

WHat is your watering habits like?
Like how often do you water and when you water do you let run off come out the bottoms?
Do you put the plants in the proper pot size, not too big not too small?

I try to watter a day after it goes bone dry or so.
Sometimes I water enough to get runoff sometimes I only give what I think will not make it soggy but just enough, when it gets soggy after a thorough watering it can take a long time to dry out again since the plants are growing sooo slowly.

I believe the plants are in pots of adequate volume, the ones in 4" pots are not more than 9" tall and the one in the 3 gal is not more than a foot and a half. The roots when inspected the other day were not colonizing much of the pots. Only one plant showed healthy roots and it was at the very bottom of one of one of the 4" pots. I started giving it RO water from the supermarket and it seems to like it. funny thing about the RO water, it seems to absorb much easier and drain through much quicker than my tap or rainwater.

I think I will get an RO machine if not for the plants but for me, I can't stand drinking my tap for some reason and it does have a lot of white solid in it which show up when I leave it out on the wrought iron heaters to keep the humidity up in winter so wood doesn't crack.

 

[MynameStitch]

SEe I don't know how many gallons those pot sizes are, you want 1 foot tall plants to a 1 gallon size pot MINIMUM

1 foot tall plants to 4-5 liter pots.
RO water does drain, it's much lighter compared to harder water, hard water is more dense.

I would use tap water and nEver let the soil get bone dry ever this will cause all kinds of problems especially with the way nutes are absorbed.
It's very clear you were not watering enough/ or not as often and or having the wrong pot size, too big of pot and not watering enough is an example.

Your water is hard then, mine was hard too; if your water hardness is over 250 ppms I would not recommend using it, but if you want to solve your problem too I would use your tap water over your RO water.

 

[Deft]

I found nematodes in my soil today, any way to get rid of them without washing off the roots and using sterilized soil?

I honestly don't think its under watering, the plant that I was watering sparingly is the one that is doing the best by far, the others go dry every 2-3 days and get plenty of water but they are the ones doing the worst.

I did introduce wild soil a while back, probably a mistake

 

[Guest]

ltittle white squiglys with black heads? if so fungus gnats could be there especially with outside soil.

 

[Deft]

No they are worms, only like 1mm long and white. Found them on unrooted clones in peat pucks, thought they were root tips but they took off when I poked them

 

[MynameStitch]

You did not say you used wild soil, why did you not tell this?

Those roots still looks like they were under watered and frail.

But any pest is a pest that could cause a problem.

Using some misquito dunks may clear it up, it's commonly known as BT 1/2 dunk per gallon of water.

You never watered your plants until run off came out did you?
I remember you telling me you did not and those roots looked dry as bone rather than being eaten by pests.

 

[Deft]

Because its been a problem for over a year now, I didn't remember doing it at first when we were discussing in PMs.

I started some seeds recently with the paper towel method because they were old and had gotten small. They all popped and just went in peat pots today, the root tips are having a hard time growing though, they honestly look infected, brown patches even though I used a 3% h2o2 solution to start them in, I know that if I had not used the h2o2 they would have gone soft and died in their shells without any chance because it always happens in towels.

I want rule out a root rot infestation in my closet, but have a question... Will spraying the closet/pots/utensils and wiping down with bleach, using all new soiless medium with 40% perlite, and washing/repotting the moms in the veg box help get rid of rot IF I have it?

I have pics of the weak little sprouts but I don't have a site that allows direct linking.

One thing is for sure though, I fuxed up my roots some how!

 

[Deft]

I did under water, and I did overwater.. most definatly. The overwatering happened because the roots died and the water would sit and stagnate (medium holds way too much, like a sponge). The under watering pictured was my over reaction to that, at least thats what I think. I usually water till I get runoff, but when it stays in the pot for over a week in 80* days I stopped giving it full waterings and only used a few oz at a time.

I have the carnivorous fungus and it seems to work on the flys, after using it they went away completely. I'll put a few bits in with a watering.

 

[MynameStitch]

Root rot is hard to get in soil, cannabis roots in soil is hard to rot unless there is a problem with the roots and water sits like you are talking about, then yes they can get rot and further cause the problem to become worse and make it mimic like the water did the damage when the real culprit was something else......

If plants are not taking in water; there is a root problem most definatly.....

It's never good to have any bugs in with your plants; they are there for a reason and some strains don't like bug infestations and can't tolerate them as much as other strains... some strains can react quickly due to pests when some won't get bad until the infestation has been there for quite some time.

 

[Buzz Lightyear]

Fafard is good soil. #3 mix is great. All have enough lime and gypsum already.

If your runoff ph is 6.4, you should not have added lime. Ph in soilless mixes should be 5.6 to 6.2

Root rot is common in soils too. You might try an occassional drench of 50% captan fungicide at 1 1/4 to 2 teaspoons per gallon of water. This fungicide is old and not terribly effective especially on Rhizoctonia fungus. Keeping the mix on the dry side is your best prevention.

Always water till runoff. Then allow to get really really dry but not let the plant wilt.

 

[MynameStitch]

Root rot is only common in soil when a pathogen or constant overwatering, badly over watering where it sits in water a lot.

If the roots are infected with something in form of a pest or fungus then yes it can get rot, but without them and it would be a little harder to get, I have seen some severe overwatering cases and there roots in my time and a lot of them were perly white even though constant overwatering, it's where the roots sitting in stagnet water and no where to go is what contributes to the rot, now if other stuff was involved it can and will give you rot far quicker since the root system is being more strained on.



Always water till runoff. Then allow to get really really dry but not let the plant wilt.

This is only true if the plant is in the proper pot size and even then if you have seedlings in cups you don't want run off till they got at least 2 sets of leaves on them....

So be careful with how much you do water, when the plants get big yes you do want run off everytime to ensure plants will grow there roots down and to ensure all root mass is moist and getting an even amount of water.

 

[Deft]

Roots are defiantly infected, the seeds I sprouted that got mold right away (fought off with captan + h2o2) are now in a kind of weird stasis mode where they are green and look healthy but do not grow one bit. I found out why also, I pulled up a clone thats been living but not growing at all for over a month (very weird) out of its peat pot and there is a kind of tumor like mass where roots have been trying to grow out but they keep being destroyed when they try to grow outwards. I do let the peat pots dry on the outside pretty well.

I found a seedling with a blue fungal mass growing on its otherwise healthy looking coty leaf. The seedlings never went in my closet, just in the outside room which makes me think I have a lot of spores floating around that room. I think its time for ventilation of the closet/room.

 

[Deft]

If anyone knows what I could do to help fight mold or could help me determine what would be effective to reduce mold please post up, I need help.. I cant even get my living plants to grow except one, they just sit in stasis like they are having the life sucked out of them and none but the growing one has good roots.

I have a high flow HEPA filter just sitting around, was wondering if it might help reduce spores in the air or if it would just become a breeding ground for mold itself. The building I live in has issues with mold in the basement and I live in a moldy region of New England so I don't think zero mold is possible, just mitigation in the grow room/closet.

 

[Deft]

Mold sucks ass, it killed my basil seeds even though I used a seed starting mix guaranteed to prevent damp off! One day after sowing in very airy and low moisture sphagnum moss mix they are covered with translucent goo and are now soft and dead.

They never even got a chance to open!