Rooted clones dying when transplanted to soil

[QuantumFizz]

Recently I've been using a DIY bubble cloner which has been working great for clones. However, when I transplant the rooted clones to soil about half of them die. Here's a photo and description of the setup:

The clones taken yesterday are circled in red. They're all in a soil and perlite mix with no nutrients, under a 175W MW. Temperature 65 degrees, humidity 47. They're on a 24/0 light schedule and watered once every 36 hours or so since the soil dries up quickly.

 

[ArcticBlast]

that's the number one killer of my clones as well... i think its a humidity thing, or maybe i'm overwatering it... either way, i'll wait for an answer with you!

you're not alone!
ArcticBlast

 

[EvilTwin]

Hi QF,
Does your cloner have a dome? I've never cloned with a bubble cloner but when I try and take my rooted clones out from the dome...serious wilting occurs. I have to run them through a hardening-off program like people use to toughen plants before putting them outside. Your clones are most likely going from near 100% humidity to a much lower level. If there's any way you can ease that transition...do it.

One other thought...you're growing clone roots in a hydro environment and then placing them in soil. There are different types of roots. So called water roots (large diameter) and soil roots (very fine).

When I clone in peat and the clones are able to stand tall w/o drooping, then the transition to soil is no problem. Never lose any.

So I think it's a combination of the two issues.
ET

 

[QuantumFizz]

Hi QF,
Does your cloner have a dome? I've never cloned with a bubble cloner but when I try and take my rooted clones out from the dome...serious wilting occurs. I have to run them through a hardening-off program like people use to toughen plants before putting them outside. Your clones are most likely going from near 100% humidity to a much lower level. If there's any way you can ease that transition...do it.

My cloner does have a dome, thanks for offering this suggestion. I'll try to wean them off of the high humidity for a few days before transplanting to soil. I have been misting them several times daily after transplanting but it makes sense that the stress is too great.

One other thought...you're growing clone roots in a hydro environment and then placing them in soil. There are different types of roots. So called water roots (large diameter) and soil roots (very fine).

When I clone in peat and the clones are able to stand tall w/o drooping, then the transition to soil is no problem. Never lose any.

So I think it's a combination of the two issues.
ET

Do you suggest I just clone using soil, then? I don't see what I can do to fix that

 

[EvilTwin]

QF,
You're right...there isn't any way to fix that other then changing your cloning methods. And I'm just not experienced enough with hydro cloning to tell you that.

Work on the other issue first. Give them some time to transition. Then, if they're still dying I'd suggest starting another thread to get that specific info...see what other's are doing. I think with a better transition, you'll do much better.
ET

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

I had the same problem when I was using my water cloner. It's one of the reasons I went back to rooting in cellophane covered 9oz solo cups with perlite/vermiculite medium. I think roots formed in water are just more sensitive to lack of oxygen because I noticed a huge improvement when I started putting them into a 50/50 perlite/soil mix. Another important consideration is drainage holes. I make at least 8 HUGE holes in the bottom with a knife. Big drain holes and a very airy mix with lots of perlite should do it.

 

[Bud Religion]

Looks to me like you're overwatering. Once every 36 hours seems like too often even if your soils drying out. I was just gifted some clones that were rooted in rockwool. I transplanted into solo cups with a 50/50 mix of FFOF and perlite 3 days ago and have only watered once. They are under 84w of CFL. I plan on watering only when they're leaves start drooping. Hope that helps some.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

just give it a good first watering and dont water till it get kinda dry... also would get better success if you started out in smaller pots... they will dry out quicker and roots will stretch more...

 

[newganjaboy]

I just got a clone of purple-kush in a rockwell cube and it almost died when I put it in soil. There is a difference between the roots in a hydro system and those in soil. I had to keep that baby watered heavily everyday for a week until it grew enough soil roots to stay alive. Just my .02
ngb

 

[QuantumFizz]

would get better success if you started out in smaller pots... they will dry out quicker and roots will stretch more...

Really, how is that so? Can the plant or the roots tell how large the pot is? I don't see how a rooted clone could tell the difference between a large pot or a small pot.

 

[QuantumFizz]

would get better success if you started out in smaller pots... they will dry out quicker and roots will stretch more...

Really, how is that so? How can a rooted clone tell the size of the pot that it's in? Thanks for your feedback

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

Really, how is that so? How can a rooted clone tell the size of the pot that it's in? Thanks for your feedback

what it does is gives it less space to store water so it drys out quicker and the roots are not sufficating cause it takes a week or two to dry out... the quicker it drys out the fast the roots stretch to find more water giving you more roots... they sit in wet water all the time the sufficate and dont need to grow to look for water cause its everywhere....

 

[EvilTwin]

PoopyTeaBags is right QuantumFizz...

It's all about the water.
ET

 

[QuantumFizz]

what it does is gives it less space to store water so it drys out quicker and the roots are not sufficating cause it takes a week or two to dry out... the quicker it drys out the fast the roots stretch to find more water giving you more roots... they sit in wet water all the time the sufficate and dont need to grow to look for water cause its everywhere....

Great explanation, thanks!

 

[Technique]

if you still wish to use the bubble cloner,

you might want to try just letting them root say 5mm or there abouts then make the transfer to soil..

otherwise bubble cloner is really for going into a soilless medium

and put half a coke bottle over the plants for the first week with the lid off..

keep it humid..

 

[QuantumFizz]

if you still wish to use the bubble cloner,

you might want to try just letting them root say 5mm or there abouts then make the transfer to soil..

otherwise bubble cloner is really for going into a soilless medium

and put half a coke bottle over the plants for the first week with the lid off..

keep it humid..

This would explain what's going on, some of the roots were very long and developed by the time they were dropped into soil. Next time I'll transplant them more quickly and try the coke bottle method.

 

[StrictlyGateway]

i'm with EvilTwin on this one. Def. need to ween off the humidity. depending on the size of root system upon transplant, could also be the size of the pot, but the humidity ween is key!

 

[QuantumFizz]

i'm with EvilTwin on this one. Def. need to ween off the humidity. depending on the size of root system upon transplant, could also be the size of the pot, but the humidity ween is key!

The root systems were quite large, most in excess of 3 inches or so before transplant

 

[Budley Doright]

I think it has to do with the fact in your bubble cloner they form what I call water roots....

In a different medium they from soil roots....

As someone suggested it may actually help to transplant with less roots....


or try a different method.... quite a few ex bubble cloners use this...


http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=42847

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

ive had this prob or something similar to it.. i promise if you switch to smaller pots and water one good time at transplant and wait till they are damn near dry that you shouldnt get this problem again...