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root rot!!

bron2k

Member
i've been vegging for 3 weeks now and my root rot problems is getting worse. i have some dutch master zone will this work as good as sm-90? i can't get sm-90 where i live that's y i bought zone. my roots are pretty long and i know you're suppose to cut of the dead roots but what should i do here. should i cut all of it off or leave it? if you're wondering wth is all that foam it's zone and hydrozyme. iono if it's a good thing but i assume it's not so i flushed it. please help thanks..
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Hydro-Soil

Active member
Veteran
i've been vegging for 3 weeks now and my root rot problems is getting worse. i have some dutch master zone will this work as good as sm-90? i can't get sm-90 where i live
:yoinks:
Drop frozen pop-bottles of water into your res and get your temps down.
Increase the amount of dissolved oxygen by adding another air pump or two. Also, put something heavy and plastic on those air-wands to keep them at the bottom of your tank. You'll want the bubbles to rise up past the roots.

The issue is heat and lack of oxygen. If you solve those issues, you won't need any additives.

If you have good tap water, run the shower and fill up the tub with warm water. Drop all your plants in there for a good hour soak TOTALLY SUBMERGED if at all possible. You're wanting the plant to soak up good aerated water (hence the shower) into all tissues exposed to the water. This means through the leaves and stems also. Don't worry, it won't hurt the plant one bit.

Gently massage the smushy roots out of the root balls. If you don't have any good roots left, they would have died anyway :(

Rinse them off and put them back into your CLEANED res with just nutes in it and cool (65F) nute solution. (Use those pop-bottles and a floating thermometer!)

You'll notice a remarkable difference.


You might have light leak issues into your res but it doesn't look like it ;) Nice job there!

For low wattage applications, DWC/SWC rocks but when you get into areas where heat is an issue due to increased wattage or ambient temps, it's best to go with an Ebb&Flow system.

I live in a hot environment and have battled root rot on several occasions. It can be expensive to combat.

Good luck!
 
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Weedhound

Grower
ICMag Donor
I think they look great. I'm afraid I'm not seeing any root rot at all. And if they were my roots I wouldn't change a thing.....except to change out the hydrozyme and Zone (not sure what that is) to Rhizotonic and Cannazym which are my favorites for root health. You don't need SM90. Hydro soil is correct that the issues come from heat and lack of areation but I'm afraid I disagree on using preventatives......I'm 100% all for them.

Good luck.
 

bron2k

Member
hey thanks guys! i just cleaned out my rez last night and now flushing it with some clearex. they're really stressed and root stunned. i checked it this morning and there's a lot of dead roots and somewhat slimy. should i cut these off or just message it like you said? everytime i clean out my rez there's so much of little dead roots floating. man i hope they come back cuz half of them are like 9inchs and very bushy but the roots look like shit. thanks again for the help guys.
 

Weedhound

Grower
ICMag Donor
Well how did they get that way in the first place? I'm still not seeing the issue from the photo you have provided....you are saying there are slimy roots etc but all I see is nice white roots in that photo.......but if the plant is shedding roots then I would continue to do res changes until it's done. How about a photo of the top of the plants? There's tons of info missing here such as ph, nute levels, room temps and humidity etc etc etc.........but I guess it could just be me.
 
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bron2k

Member
wasup weed! yea they're shedding roots and it's worst then the picture shows. the picture is a couple days old. my ph is at 5.8 but likes to climb to 6.2 or so. feeding AN nutes and was at 800ppm but now is flushing with clearex. water temp is now at 68 but likes to climb to 73f but now i got frozen bottles of water to cool it. room temp lights on 75, lights off guessing 70. humidity is around 40-55%. here's some pics of the plants.
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Weedhound

Grower
ICMag Donor
Two basic rules: when in doubt increase oxygen and decrease nute level. I'm not familiar with AN nutes but have heard they are very strong........drop your level back to where you are not getting the ph jumps.......they are telling you that your nute solution is too strong. A quickly rising ph in a normally stable system can be your very first sign of nute burn.

I run my temps from 65-75 in the nute solution itself. No root rot worries because I have full faith in the products i use for root health.

I think your plants look great so I'm missing the issue altogether I guess. During blooming a rising ph is somewhat normal (late blooming) but you aren't there so I'm guessing less nutes would be your answer. But quite frankly, the tops of your plants look nice and healthy to me.
 

bron2k

Member
thanks weed! my plants never got that light green in the middle like that before. it almost looks like sulfur deficiency but who knows. i know they're definitely stunned cuz they havnt grown for last couple days. and the stem and leaves all getting purple as well. right now i'm just concern with my roots. they're getting really brown and slimy so i know it's root rot. again thanks for the help weed.
 

Hydro-Soil

Active member
Veteran
but I'm afraid I disagree on using preventatives......I'm 100% all for them.

Every issue I've ever run into has been cured by changing the environment to a more proper one for growing.

Never paid for an additive in my life.
Never got pro results until I used Floranova either.

I'm not against additives, I just firmly believe that they're beyond the average grower to use properly.
The average grower can't even get really great plants growing with just nutes and environment, additives aren't going to help, only complicate.

Floranova actually makes it simple, without additives.


If your temps are fine, your dissolved oxygen is fine and you don't have light leaks, you shouldn't have root rot.
Bron2K, you might want to check out THIS THREAD, if you haven't already.
 

Weedhound

Grower
ICMag Donor
Actually I prefer the Pure Blend Line. And not to be rude.....but I consider my time and energy much more valuable than my money. I don't want to be checking things all the time making sure the temp, room etc is PERFECT. I myself am FAR from perfect and as a grower I WILL make mistakes. We live in the country.....the electrical goes all the time for one example. That's what those products are for IMHO......convenience and time saving (not to mention they can literally save your crop as well). Some of us do NOT have endless time to play with a system..(being in remission from cancer will teach you ALOT about the importance of your time and your energy) ......nor the time and energy to clean up a root rot mess either. This avoids both and i consider them worth every penny. I'd much rather be out doing something enjoyable then dropping in water bottles and worring about my temps.

Definitely to each his own.

Good luck with your grow bronk!
 
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SKAGITMAGIC

Member
rot rot prevention

rot rot prevention

I got this from another forum, I hope it helps you!!!
Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) it is made up of Hydrogen (H2) and Oxygen (O2), however H2O2 has an extra Oxygen atom in an unstable arrangement - it is this extra negatively charged Oxygen atom that gives H2O2 its useful properties. H2O2 is used for many purposes including cleaning, bleaching, sterilizing, rocket fuel, animal feed treatment and in addition many miraculous claims about its health benefits have been made. This faq focuses on its use in horticultural applications. H2O2 is of great use for both hydroponics and dirt/soilless gardening.

What Does Hydrogen Peroxide do?

H2O2 is an unstable molecule; when it breaks down, a single oxygen atom (O-)and a molecule of water is released. This oxygen atom is extremely reactive and will attach itself to either another Oxygen atom (forming a stable O2 molecule) or attack a nearby organic molecule.

H2O2 will rapidly eliminate the Chlorine used in many municipal water supplies, as well as degrade any pesticides, herbicides or other organic matter that might be present. Well water is often high in methane and organic sulfates, both of which H2O2 will remove.

Both the stable and O- forms will increase the level of dissolved oxygen. Increasing the DO in your nutrient solution will benefit the root system and be detrimental to harmful anaerobic bacteria such as pythium.

Many disease-causing organisms and spores are killed by the free O- atom. The free Oxygen atom will destroy dead organic material (i.e., leaves and roots) in the system, preventing them from rotting and spreading diseases. H2O2 will help eliminate existing infections and will help prevent future ones. It is also useful for suppressing algae growth.

Over Watering

Both soil and hydroponic plants often fall prey to the same syndrome. Hydroponic crops often fail due to "root rot" and soil crops succumb to "over-watering." The actual cause is a shortage of Oxygen at the root zone, allowing a Pythium infection to take hold.

In a soil system, the soil consists of particles, a film of water on the particles and air spaces between the particles. When too much water is put into the soil, the air spaces fill with liquid. The roots will quickly use up the dissolved oxygen within these pore spaces. If the root system has not absorbed the water within these pore spaces, air will not be able to enter and Oxygen within that space will become depleted. In a low oxygen environment, roots will begin dying within twenty-four hours.

As the roots die, the plant’s ability to uptake water and nutrients will drastically decrease, and the plant will show symptoms of nutrient deficiencies (pale leaves, and slow growth). Plants will start to wilt (appearing water deficient) – at this point many growers will mistakenly water their plants!

In a Hydroponic system, oxygen deprivation is often caused by high temperatures and inadequate nutrient circulation and/or aeration. High reservoir temperatures interfere with Oxygen's ability to dissolve into water. Temperatures above 70F (20C) will eventually cause problems, 62F-65F (16C-18C) is recommended.

Oxygen deprivation symptoms in hydroponics are similar to that of soil - but at least you are able to check the roots. Healthy roots should be mostly white with maybe a slight yellowish tan tinge. If they are a brownish color with dead tips or they easily pull away there is at least the beginning of a serious problem. An organic, ‘dirt like’ rotting smell means there is already a very good chance it is too late. As roots die and rot, they remove Oxygen out of the water; as Oxygen levels are depleted even further. more will roots die - a viscous circle!. Reduced Oxygen levels and high temperatures encourage anaerobic bacteria and fungi, which attack the plant further mercilessly.

How does Hydrogen Peroxide prevent root rot & over-watering

Plants watered with H2O2 will experience extra oxygen in the root zone when the peroxide breaks down. This helps stop the Oxygen from being depleted in the water filled air spaces until air can get back into them. High Oxygen levels at the roots will encourage rapid healthy root growth. In a Hydroponic systems, H2O2 will disperse through out the system and raise Oxygen levels as it breaks down. Strong white healthy roots with lots of fuzzy new growth will be visible. This fuzzy growth has massive surface area allowing for rapid absorption of the huge amounts of water and nutrients needed for rapid top growth. A healthy plant starts with a healthy root system.

How to use/apply it

H2O2 comes in several different strengths: 3%, 5%, 8% and 35%, also sold as food grade Hydrogen Peroxide. The most economical is 35% which we recommend be diluted to three percent before using. When working with food grade H2O2, it is very important that you clean up any spills or splashes immediately, it will damage almost oxidize everything very quickly. Skin will be temporarily bleached pure white if not washed cleaned. Gloves are strongly recommended when working with any strong chemical.

Food grade H2O2 can be diluted to three percent by mixing it one part to eleven parts water (preferably distilled). The storage container should be opaque to prevent light from getting in and it must be able to hold some pressure. If three-liter pop bottles are available in your area they are ideal for mixing and storing H2O2. There are twelve quarter liters (250ml) in three liters, if you put in one quarter liter H2O2 and eleven quarter liters (250ml) water in the bottle it will full of three percent H2O2 and the bottle can hold the pressure that the H2O2 will generate.

Three percent Hydrogen Peroxide may be added at up to 3 ml's per liter (2 1\2 tsp. per gallon), but it is recommended that you start at a lower concentration and increase to full strength over a few weeks.

For hydroponic applications, use every reservoir change and replace twenty-five percent (one quarter) every day. Example: In a 100L (25gal) reservoir you would add three hundred ml's (3%) H2O2 when changing the nutrient. You would then add seventy-five ml's more every day.

[Editor’s note: high concentrations of H2o2 can be detrimental to organic additives (such as beneficial additives) and organic nutrient mixtures.]

Application:

US Standard
1.28*G/C= Liquid Oz's per day

Metric
10*L/C= Ml per day

Where;
C= % concentration of H2O2
L= Number of liters in reservoir
G= Number of Gallons in reservoir

Example: How much 3% H202 should I add to 7 gallons of nutes?
1.28*7/3=2.986 Oz's each day.

Where to get it

35% food grade is called “food grade” because it has no toxic impurities. Of course your local hydroponics retailer or web stores have it (there may be shipping restrictions on high strength peroxides). The local feed supplier may have it in small towns. Prices range from fifteen dollars per quarter liter to eighty dollars a gallon. One gallon will treat up to fifty thousand liters of water.

3%5%, 8% Can be found at most drugstores or pharmacies, prices start at a less than a dollar for a one hundred-ml bottle that will treat one hundred liters.



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Weedhound

Grower
ICMag Donor
You may have put this in that post skag....but if not......always check your products before you add H202.....many "zyme" products are not to be mixed with peroxide as it will kill off the beneficial enzymes. Read your root product labels carefully before adding.

Dosing I use 10ml/gallon of 3% H202 every other day
OR
If using the hydro stuff.....(35% or something) 2ml/gallon every other day. But I still prefer the root products myself.
 
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basstard

Member
Hi,

Do you use humic and/or fulvic acids, or a product which contains it ?

Because the roots coloration could came come from the use of those products...

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Weedhound

Grower
ICMag Donor
man them look pretty good!!

i thought so too.....that's why I can't exactly find where his complaint is. I'm just not seeing anything uhealthy here except that foam in his res which he said was due to one of his products. I think his stuff looks good too!
 

SKAGITMAGIC

Member
need a little nutrient advise

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i just started a soiless grow useing AB FERTILIZER it's a two part called SVA and SVB super nutrients, i plan on using this on the white widow grow, I familiarized myself with it on purple erkle and it reads, theSVA N-P-K 1.5-0- 2.6 the SVB part is NPK 0.5- 0.5- 5.0, I hope it does as well with the ww as the other, anyway,I'm asking if anyone familiar with this brand and if the numbers look good for the white widow grow? is it a strong mix? i plan to feed every third watering is that too much food? i put a few in miracle grow in case i screw this nutrient thing up, and marked there pots,I'm using a calender to keep track, i forwarded this post from the white widow big bud post, I really don't want to mess this up.i put in a little album of my erkle grow, i tried to learn to bring my pics to the thread to make it easy, but this computer stuff, where's one of those kids when i need em lol anyway do you think the H202 peroxide additive would be compatible with this AB nutes? It doesn't seem organic i'm sure its not. I'm a outside dirt farmer that legally came indoors DEC. 5th, doing my first soiless grow and just trying to learn as much as possible, I grew indoors in 1977 78, indica pure here in northern washington, My outside stuff did way better,than the inside i burned every leaf off them lol, i washed the rootwads and replanted and they came back miraculusly
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Weedhound

Grower
ICMag Donor
Well there's two things I don't know a single thing about ......coco and soilless (like hempys soiless, not like hydro) but hopefully someone else can answe your q.

bronk, my centers get like that sometimes (more yellow) but the green up as they age. Is this happening to your stuff? I personally have not had it cause a problem but freely admit my knowledge base is somewhat limited so if someone else has I hope they speak up. :D
 

Hydro-Soil

Active member
Veteran
I don't want to be checking things all the time making sure the temp, room etc is PERFECT.

That's what "properly setting up a grow environment" eliminates.

I don't have the time either, which is why I put my resources into planning and setup. The end result is nothing to maintain, just add the bare minimum nutes and time.
I guess it really comes down to how you developed your methodology. Mine came from no budget for additives. :)

As you said though :) To each their own.
 

d4twamp

Member
I agree with Weedhound, Root stimulants/additives,beneificial bacteria's, any "ZYME" product can be the difference in a ok yield or a Bumper Harvest...

I personally use Roots Excelurator From House and Garden...It's pricy but my roots are beautiful, other things factor in on this as well, but good root health is a must...

This is how I see it... The better and bigger the roots, the better and bigger the fruits...

I spend my veg time building a huge & healthy root structure, to feed the thirsty girls during their time of gluttony (bloom) Root additives makes this possible...

It does not matter how well a grow room is planned, or you how great the system runs, in the end if your not giving your plant Root additives your robbing your plant of it's full potential....

But that's just my $.02.....
 
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