Ron Paul 2012!!! Your thoughts on who we should pick for our "Cause"?

[DiscoBiscuit]

American consumer deleveraging is a myth and propaganda spread by the MSM.

I guess you two pretty much have your bases covered. Both historic and contemporary portrayals are propaganda. I digress.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Did you not read or just not understand the WSJ article about bogus American consumer deleveraging?

 

[BrnCow]

This whole thing was a con. They knew it was likely to fail but were gambling that something would turn around the economy and these impoverished home owners could pay . Even if they couldn't and the bubble burst, they had their money and the problem wouldn't affect them. The stocks crashing or near crashing likely got some of them though. And no DB I know nothing of what I am speaking of but a con is a con. And con jobs usually get discovered after the cons have split if not before. I just want to know when we will get the satisfaction of the players being exposed and prosecuted!

 

[whodare]

I guess you two pretty much have your bases covered. Both historic and contemporary portrayals are propaganda. I digress.

Keep drinking the koolaid

You'll probably be dead by the time tshtf

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Did you not read or just not understand the WSJ article about bogus American consumer deleveraging?

We deregulate and watch what we deregulate blow up.

We lower revenues and watch our deficits balloon.

We keep saying that deregulation and tax cuts will cure whats ails us (ever since we started doing it - for 30 years.)

And in the meantime a few folks who want more gold freedoms while we slide off the ever more deregulated cliff.

Yeah, I understand it all pretty well Gramps. At least enough of the the basics to look at the whole thing and not get sidetracked on an idea we tried that didn't work but somehow might if we just try it again.

peace

 

[ShroomDr]

Newt is a Progressive. Regan was a progressive. Bush I and II were progressives. Hoover was a self professed Progressive.

You can call them Neo-Conservatives, but that's just another word that describes Progressive ideology.

wow, its not what 'we' call them, its what historians call them.

Stalin called himself a savior, too bad what you call yourself doesnt mean shit.

GHWB, Clintion, GWB and Hoover were all corporatist. Sure, the jury is still out of the first three, but ulimately their hands in selling american value to the highest bidder will ulimately be seen.

William McKinley was a neo-conservative corporatist too. He caught a bullet, and TR came in blowing up the whole establishment. Teddy Roosevelt was a PROGRESSIVE. Half the Republicans hated him (and were close to drafting an opponent for im in 1904).

These are not my observations, they are the observations of historians.

Rush Limabaugh, Sean Hanity, O-Reily, Beck etc just flat out make shit up. They live in a bubble. Bill O-Reilys newest book on Lincoln was panned for its inaccuracies by historians, it was still a best seller.

Hoover as a progressive is pretty fucking hilarious. The man had ZERO experience and finally raised taxes the year he LOST re-election.

Here is what they use to call "Hoovervilles"

American shanty towns... you label that progressive?

I could have named my dog "stupid" and her toy "'brain" and yell, "go get your brain stupid". Anyone observing the actions would know my dog went and got the toy...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Keep drinking the koolaid

You'll probably be dead by the time tshtf

Another frame and blue ribbon for Pericles.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

... Rush Limabaugh, Sean Hanity, O-Reily, Beck etc just flat out make shit up. They live in a bubble. Bill O-Reilys newest book on Lincoln was panned for its inaccuracies by historians, it was still a best seller.

I find that more times than not, folks who have a weird sense of contemporary reality also have a revisionist sense of history.

No better example than Palin's gaff of Revere's ride. History tells us that Revere warned not only of but specifically how the enemy would attack. Palin was flipping a guns rights message and fashioned Revere as fool parading before British officers and saying, "You can't take our guns away."





Wiki editors tweaked the Paul Revere entry for months, correcting a Palin fan who (among other things) referenced contemporary news accounts of Palin's portrayal as proof that Palin's account was accurate.

 

[freeon]

This is all meaningless , at the end of the day it doesn't matter who becomes the president. The red phone under oval office desk stays the same and if mister president decides not to pick it up , his brain matter will be splattered all over the concrete by morning.

 

[ShroomDr]

Apparently doing exactly what big business and the bankers want you do to do makes you a 'progressive'...



TR did what ever the fuck he wanted. Eisenhower was a 'progressive' too. He was not as radical as TR, but he did build the interstate system, raised the top tax rate to 90% (what a commie!) rallied against the MIC, etc.

Reagan and Newt (Santorum Romney Boehner McConnel) are double talking liars (read: politicians) who say one thing and do another. In Newts case, as along as you keep doubling down on the lies, you can keep rolling.

Modern GOP playbook^^^

I dont think the Dems are much better, but id rather get slapped in the face than kicked in the balls.

We need a 3rd party, whether its Dr Paul or another.

-

 

[bentom187]

This race isnt over by a longshot,ive got somthing new to cosider,party rules vs election law.this may be another way for us to win the RNC,now the GOP can start worrying,because ron paul and supporters are the future of the republican party.

http://www.dailypaul.com/211757/rep...-other-than-the-winner-of-their-state-primary

http://www.fairvote.org/response-to...-party-rules-may-surprise-in-201#.TzBjpsiXG24

heres some carziness that happens at the RNC,but this time the vets for ron paul will be there,it will be intresting to see if the establishment has a military division worth of oath takers that will not fold.
http://www.freeople.com/blog/brady-...neapolis-suggests-next-steps-r3publicans/1410

john mcains cyber security bill will make the chinese internet restrictions look like childs play.
http://act.demandprogress.org/act/m...erring_akid=1264.1546828.Pn4Wzi&source=typ-tw

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/civil-libertarians-slam-mccain-cybersecurity-bill-202619424.html

harry reid and the dems have a similar bill, so it seems to me that we will be getting it one way or the other.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Hoover as a progressive is pretty fucking hilarious. The man had ZERO experience and finally raised taxes the year he LOST re-election.

The fact that the progressives in this thread don't understand the roots of their own ideology is pretty fucking hilarious. Hoover was progressive. Just not progressive enough.

Herbert Clark Hoover (August 10, 1874 – October 20, 1964) was the 31st President of the United States (1929–33). Hoover was originally a professional mining engineer and author. As the United States Secretary of Commerce in the 1920s under Presidents Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge, he promoted partnerships between government and business under the rubric "economic modernization". In the presidential election of 1928, Hoover easily won the Republican nomination, despite having no previous elected office experience. Hoover is the most recent cabinet secretary to be elected President of the United States, as well as one of only two Presidents (along with William Howard Taft) to have been elected without previous electoral experience or high military rank. America was prosperous and optimistic at the time, leading to a landslide victory for Hoover over Democrat Al Smith.
Hoover, a trained engineer, deeply believed in the Efficiency Movement, which held that the government and the economy were riddled with inefficiency and waste, and could be improved by experts who could identify the problems and solve them. He also believed in the importance of volunteerism and the role of individuals in playing a role in American society and the economy. Hoover, who had made a small fortune in mining, was the first of two Presidents to redistribute their salary (President Kennedy was the other; he donated all his paychecks to charity).[1] When the Wall Street Crash of 1929 struck less than eight months after he took office, Hoover tried to combat the ensuing Great Depression with volunteer efforts, public works projects such as the Hoover Dam, tariffs such as the Smoot-Hawley Tariff, an increase in the top tax bracket from 25% to 63%, and increases in corporate taxes. These initiatives did not produce economic recovery during his term, but served as the groundwork for various policies laid out in Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal.

He promoted the incestuous relationship between governments and corporations. He believed "experts" could make decisions better than "the people." His policies laid the groundwork for the New Deal. You want to call him and others Corporatist (Fascist)? I'm fine with that too. Liberals (the real ones) spoke out against FDR and his New Deal as being Fascist. Hitler and Mussolini liked the New Deal. The difference between the three was FDR preserved civil liberties. The other two did not.

The Nazi Party newspaper, the Völkischer Beobachter, "stressed 'Roosevelt's adoption of National Socialist strains of thought in his economic and social policies,' praising the president's style of leadership as being compatible with Hitler's own dictatorial Führerprinzip" (p. 190).

Mussolini, who did not allow his work as dictator to interrupt his prolific journalism, wrote a glowing review of Roosevelt's Looking Forward. He found "reminiscent of fascism … the principle that the state no longer leaves the economy to its own devices"; and, in another review, this time of Henry Wallace's New Frontiers, Il Duce found the Secretary of Agriculture's program similar to his own corporativism (pp. 23-24).

 

[SpasticGramps]

Apparently doing exactly what big business and the bankers want you do to do makes you a 'progressive'...

Just like the the father of the Progressive movement did in 1913.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence

"Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are the United States government's institutions. They are not government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign swindlers" -- Congressional Record 12595-12603 -- Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency (12 years) June 10, 1932

 

[ShroomDr]

tying corporations and govt can be more accurately defined as fascism, not progressiveness.


Hoover had ZERO govt experience, 'progressive' by definition is a change from the previous, Hoover had NO previous (and sucked corporate and wallstreet dick for 3 years).

Like i said, Stalin called himself a savior. well, yeah i guess since EVERYONE didnt die, he was the 'savior' from the nazis.

He was a real reformer too... no one would doubt he had a lot of 'reforms'.

There is a reason youre not allowed to coin your own nickname...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

The fact that the progressives in this thread don't understand the roots of their own ideology is pretty fucking hilarious.

Your citation reads like it's crux is something other than rating Hoover's ideology. Not unlike reads that suggest inaction didn't contribute to the Great Depression.

IMO, disagreement with your historic reference is no indication that folks don't know what happened or what's happening. Hoover initiated zero policies to thwart macro contraction, manage unemployment and mitigate rampant home foreclosures.

Hoover was progressive. Just not progressive enough. He promoted the incestuous relationship between governments and corporations. He believed "experts" could make decisions better than "the people." His policies laid the groundwork for the New Deal. You want to call him and others Corporatist (Fascist)? I'm fine with that too. Liberals (the real ones) spoke out against FDR and his New Deal as being Fascist. Hitler and Mussolini liked the New Deal. The difference between the three was FDR preserved civil liberties. The other two did not.

holy moly

Hoover presided over the greatest income disparity, (other than present-day.) You don't get record income disparity without policies that favor the top or zero policies that favor everybody else. There is nothing progressive about that.

Sometimes folks turn things so inside out it's a wonder whether they're attempting to make less than difficult concepts harder to comprehend. You say he promoted expert opinion but the opinions he listened to said "do nothing." One of the reasons folks called makeshift accomdations "Hoovervilles" is because they received zero relief from gub. Self perseverance, i.e. "get a job" was the mantra, even though unemployment was unmatched before or since.

 

[SpasticGramps]

(and sucked corporate and wallstreet dick for 3 years).

Kind of like our current Puppet in Chief. Only in private though. He panders to his base in public with empty rhetoric.

 

[whodare]

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." (Laurence J. Peter)

 

[gaiusmarius]

what a mess it is when people have come to the point where they are arguing about the meaning of particular words. how can anyone have a discussion if we don't all have the same definitions for the words we use? i wonder if this is another result of the deliberate dumbing down of society, or is actually being encouraged on purpose? to me the meaning of progressive, is just a person who believes we should make progress. he will have his own list of things that constitute progress, but on the whole it would seem progress means things getting better for the majority. but what about if your a group of bankers that wants to be able to earn more money with less risk? well in that case progress would mean some thing totally different. so as with the freedom fighter being one mans terrorist and an others liberator, one mans progress is another mans regression to the dark ages.

but progressive in the terms of glen beck are those george zoros funded groups that operate tax free as ngo's that can be used to further their bosses and donors agenda. they are organizations like acorn that believe so strongly in their aims that they are willing to break the rules to achieve them.

but is that really what a progressive is? i never thought that was the definition before, but it explains the bum wrap the title has received

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Must spread around more reputation before you give it to Shroom Dr. again.

Dude, Shroom, you are right on the money about the Bill Maher's bubble. I am a conservative, but I sit back and look at the G.O.P. and am amazed at what I am hearing from the so called conservative party. Not one god damn thing they want to do is conservative. This is why I was so happy to see Ron Paul trying to actually bring real conservatism to the G.O.P.

 

[bentom187]

Lecture 11 from "The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History" Lecture Series [32:15]

Herbert Hoover and the Great Depression Thomas E. Woods, Jr. The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History: Lecture Series


http://mises.org/media/2046/Herbert-Hoover-and-the-Great-Depression