?Riddle Me This?

[sergentjunk]

Thanks Kushism! I think I'm finally getting it. Ya know how things just make a light bulb go on in your head...I had one of those moments last night while watering...an epiphany if you will, I'd like to see if I'm correct in my thinking:

In the two plants, I had an input of 980 PPM and a PH of 5.8. Runoff was 340 PPM and a PH of 6.0. So I would like to make sure I'm understanding this correctly....knowing that adding nutes lowers the PH, taking them out would raise it right? So reading a runoff that lowers the PPM and raises the PH...means the plants soaked up a lot of nutes???? Makes sense to me, I just want to make sure it's the correct conclusion. I didn't feed the problem plant as much, but her runoff was the same ratio as the input of the others. Also, there is not one bit of new damage with the problem plant...she has seemed to stabalized.

Thanks again!

*junk

 

[kushism]

i am not all that scientific with my plants.. i use a recirculating systems prone to spike in ppm levels as days go on. I am going to assume that if the runoff is less ppm than the input, then yes a good deal of the nutes were absorbed into the medium..

As far as the PH i have never really payed attention.. i ph to 5.6 and let it go.. so i am not 100% sure

 

[sergentjunk]

LOL...maybe I'm too scientific. Oh well, that's just me...I want to know how and why with everything, I guess I'm anal like that....I get too analytical when I smoke. Plus being brand new, I want to know every little nuance and how plants work. I'm glad you mentioned the 5.6 PH, I was afraid to administer it that low. Seeing as how the runoff is more than the input though, I think I would like to lower it to 5.6 and let it drift up.

Now I'm getting to the point though that I can compare my readings to the physical look of the plant, so I can tell what they are liking and what they are not liking just by looking at them...learning their language.

On a side note, just to express some thought...I believe now that Cannabis is a fruit and not a weed. It's natural life and harvest cycle is the exact same as fruit bearing plants, not of weeds. Just thinking out loud. See what happens when I wake and bake! LOL

*junk

 

[Citizen024]

Runoff TDS

Runoff TDS

Runoff is different in recirc vs. run to waste. In recirc you run off after your cycle of watering should match your res. If it does not, it means you waiting too long between watering cycles and your evaping out so much water your nutrient is concentrating in your medium- or your not running your watering long enouugh for it all to balance out. It takes a good amount of water running to do make that happen in coco/rockwool. Much less in rocks. 15-30 minutes. If your seeing considerable nutri build up in a recirc system you need to really flush out your mediums, I mean really really. Your standard watering cycles are often not enough to flush out a medium that has built up in ebb and flow trays (but NFT, aero, drip, etc. you can simply run for hours to even out.) A recirc system should not be building up much at all, that is dangerous.

In a run to waste system your seeing the medium absorb nutrient, hence the lower tds. Once it builds up, it can actually have run off that exceeds what your putting in. This is known as salt built up. This is why we have to flush from time to time. OR you can simply run lots of nutrient every watering and keep it from building up too much; you can kinda think of this as regular flushing. Tends to be nutrient wasteful at that point. Yes the plents feed, but that not quickly- the lower tds runout is not due to that when we are talking short amounts of time. with run to waste you need to make your plants piss. Seriouusly- a lot of folks do not want to run much run off cause it gets pricey. BUT in order for it to work right you MUST have run off. Without it, or enough of it, you simply stacking nutrient on top of nutrient. Recipe for unfun.

 

[sergentjunk]

Makes more sense than my theory Citizen LOL. Thanks for clearing that up. That's exactly what I was wondering is if it's the medium soaking up the nutes, or can plants really feed THAT quickly?!

My schedule now is to feed for two days, flush the third,,,,seems to be working well. I'm sure I could probably get away with maybe even feeding for three and flushing on the fourth, don't know. I'm still learning/experimenting, so I'll figure it out I'm sure. I have noticed to potential for nute waste in run to waste system that I'm doing, and water waste...so I'm trying to be efficient as possible, while still being beneficial to the plants.

Citizen...can you send me that link again please??? I thought I had bookmarked it but apparently I skipped that step.

Thanks a lot!

*junk

 

[sergentjunk]

Oh...one more question for all:

I'll try to explain this to the best of my ability. On the two good plants, the little jagged points along the edges of the leaves (not the endpoints of the leaves themselves) have started to turn up a little bit. I haven't seen anyone post about this before, and it looks strange. The rest of the leaf looks fine...nice green color, no spots, no canoeing. The end tips look slightly yellow, just at the very tip, but not major at all so I wasn't worried about it. It could be normal though...I just don't know. I attached a previous picture that I have cropped to isolate the problem, so it's been going on for a little bit, just keep forgetting to ask about it.
Any clues????
Thanks!

*junk

 

[ooya]

Oh...one more question for all:

I'll try to explain this to the best of my ability. On the two good plants, the little jagged points along the edges of the leaves (not the endpoints of the leaves themselves) have started to turn up a little bit. I haven't seen anyone post about this before, and it looks strange. The rest of the leaf looks fine...nice green color, no spots, no canoeing. The end tips look slightly yellow, just at the very tip, but not major at all so I wasn't worried about it. It could be normal though...I just don't know. I attached a previous picture that I have cropped to isolate the problem, so it's been going on for a little bit, just keep forgetting to ask about it.
Any clues????
Thanks!

*junk

I was reading up on it and they said the curling upward could be a slight magnesium deficiency or copper deficiency. I have that on some of my leaves.

 

[kushism]

LoL well i am 3 days from harvest, we will see if my dangerous ways will cause trouble.. It's not looking that way.. I didn;t say my run-off was prone to ppm spikes.. after 4 days of feeding there is a certain amount of flushing that does occur, along with natural evaporation. this causes an elevation in ppms in my resi.. my runoff ppm is the same or slightly higher than resi, due to this flushing occuring. it is just a given that with time and evaporation that PPMs will rise in a recirc system unless you are topping off with fresh water everyday to stabilize the ppm's.. I add 3 gallons of R/O water to my resi everyday, and yes it drops the ppm levels, but evap will occur regardless of how often i water or for how long, so that ppm rise from evap is in-evitable..

You make valid points citizen, but i know what is working for me.. i water via drippers every 4 hours for 8 mins.. i also know that within the 1st 35 seconds that the trays start draining that the run off is significantly darker, usually indicating some kind of leaching happening...

 

[sergentjunk]

Ok everyone...I just ran into a bunch of more questions and would like the input of you folks that have been following my thread(and anyone else for that matter)...if you don't mind lending your 2cents.

Runoff. Apparently this is a big issue and there are many different opinions on this based each grower's success and failures. So if possible, I would like some opinions please. I posted this as well in the run off thread in the coco growing sections, but I'd like to see what you all think.

I'm questioning everything I've been doing, although my plants seem to be doing well...I know they could be doing better.

I have 3 plants in 6liter (1.5 gallon) square pots using Botanicare Ready Grow moisture formula...coco/perlite. I am in my fifth week of flowering. My watering since I've started troubleshooting here has been as follows...

day 1: water with a mix of calmg+/probloom at 1kPPM to just a little runoff...enough to know my solution has gone all the way down.

day 2: Water with the same solution, to a bit more runoff. Just enough to know the previous days nutes were somewhat washed away.

day 3: complete flush with Clearex.

Repeat.

There are a good amount of methods to try and I'm starting to wonder if I'm watering and/or flush too much. By doing so...destroying the "buffer" and balance that I've created over the past two waterings.

Now please keep in mind I can only water once a day, and am handwatering to waste...no res. Would the more experienced coco growers recommend watering with nutes everyday, just enough to keep the upper parts moist. The bottoms of the pots obviously have no problems staying wet. Then maybe flush once a week? Or does watering to a 5% runoff accomplish this "flush"? So many MORE questions! LOL This is so crazy, just when I think I have some things figured out, I find a post that raises more questions. I just want to do GOODER (ya that's a world ).

Thanks again everyone!

*junk

 

[kushism]

in my OPINION, I think you are flushing too much.. it is good to flush, but not needed so often.. i would think that you would need to flush every week or 2. I do not think watering to a 5% run-off will accomplish the flush, as 5% is nothing.. in the 8 mins i water, i usually end up with, and this is a rough estimate, 85% runoff.. so much solution if flowing through the mesh pots that most buildup is leached out..

it's all about finding what works for you, taking all the advice, adding your common sense and trial and error.. I feel the same way, all my plants could be healthier, but in reality they are just about healthy as can be.. Some strains are super finicky, and super hard to keep happy throughout the entire cycle..

you are well on your way to figuring things out.. and i know exactly what you mean about wanting the best possible..

 

[sergentjunk]

in my OPINION, I think you are flushing too much.. it is good to flush, but not needed so often.. i would think that you would need to flush every week or 2. I do not think watering to a 5% run-off will accomplish the flush, as 5% is nothing.. in the 8 mins i water, i usually end up with, and this is a rough estimate, 85% runoff.. so much solution if flowing through the mesh pots that most buildup is leached out..

it's all about finding what works for you, taking all the advice, adding your common sense and trial and error.. I feel the same way, all my plants could be healthier, but in reality they are just about healthy as can be.. Some strains are super finicky, and super hard to keep happy throughout the entire cycle..

you are well on your way to figuring things out.. and i know exactly what you mean about wanting the best possible..

Exactly the conclusion I've come up with. I've basically come up with a system that I will get probably less than 5% runoff on normal days, then 85% or more for a flush day....that might be once a week or so. Seems like a good thing to try.

Ya that's all I've been doing is taking in all this info I see and only applying the concepts that might apply to my situation. I know there are no set in stone rules for growing...just what works for you and your particular strain and setup. It's all great info, and I love this site for that. But one person can't take another person's grow methods, apply to theirs and expect the exact same results...not gonna happen.

Thanks for the input Kushism!

On a side note, regarding my grow. The problem plant has not produced any damage for the past few days, and has seemed to really become stable and happy. Thanks everyone for helping me out with her!

*junk

 

[kushism]

Glad the troubled one is stable and happy again.. That system sounds perfect. on feeding days you do not need tons of run-off, especially being that you handwater. On leaching days you want as mush run off as possible and i would monitor the ppms of the runoff until they are about equal to the ppms going in.. You already know that the ppms will be higher in the initial run off, and gradually decrease indicating that leaching is in fact occurring.. Bravo!!

The only way you could take someone's methods and expect the same result is if you are duplicating their set-up to a "t" and growing the same genetics they are, and duplicate all environmental variables...

That is my case actually. I duplicated a friends setup and method almost exactly, i grew the same genetics he did, and the end result will be pot that is indistinguishable from one another. It is rare that this happens, but we are also relatively close, and deal with the same environmental factors..

Kudos bro