Reversed Backcrossing:)

[Colina]

Hi GMT,

The selfing there plays an important role of producing/isolating a plant to use as a recurrent parent that will effectively produce offspring resembling the recurrent parent at an acceptable rate. If the original clone when selfed gives rise to offspring that resembles it at a rate considered acceptable, then yes, back up and use the original clone as a recurrent parent - in this case we would have only used selfing for genotyping purposes. However if the S1's do not resemble the original clone at what is considered an acceptable rate, then by selfing we've found that out (that it would not be a very effective choice as a recurrent parent), as well as moved forward at a most efficient rate towards producing/isolating one that will. If A, then B, if C, then D.

 

[Rockster]

Hi englishrick,

I'm tinkering with the Cheese myself and have Cheese x Sk#1 BX1 seeds maturing on the plants atm.

In my next grow I'll be doing Cheese x Sk#1 BX1's,F2's and my first S1's which should be interesting.The BX1's will will be inbred for F2's to be grown out in the next phase as well as BX2's produced on other Cheese clones.

For the very reasons Chimera states,repeated backcrossing cannot result in a true Cheese chemotype although I will be doing this for observation and learning purposes,see what comes out the other end.

I've thought as a possible route is selfing the Cheese which should then express as a Skunk#1 female F2 population(thinking aloud here,please correct me if I'm wrong?)and then grow out a large amount(theres the rub!)in the hope of finding an individual or individuals for an S2 generation in the hope that a significant percentage be expressed in the S2,barring possible bad effects from going up a narrow genetic back alley,so to speak.

I don't know if my thinking is sound on this but it's the route I'm taking and should learn much along the way.

First pic is a Cheese clone carrying the BX1 seeds,other pics Cheese x Sk#1 F1 seeded bud.Last pic a reversed Cheese clone.

 

[GMT]

Colina, yeah I see the logic, that makes sense, thanks.

 

[englishrick]

Hi englishrick,

I'm tinkering with the Cheese myself and have Cheese x Sk#1 BX1 seeds maturing on the plants atm.

In my next grow I'll be doing Cheese x Sk#1 BX1's,F2's and my first S1's which should be interesting.The BX1's will will be inbred for F2's to be grown out in the next phase as well as BX2's produced on other Cheese clones.

For the very reasons Chimera states,repeated backcrossing cannot result in a true Cheese chemotype although I will be doing this for observation and learning purposes,see what comes out the other end.

I've thought as a possible route is selfing the Cheese which should then express as a Skunk#1 female F2 population(thinking aloud here,please correct me if I'm wrong?)and then grow out a large amount(theres the rub!)in the hope of finding an individual or individuals for an S2 generation in the hope that a significant percentage be expressed in the S2,barring possible bad effects from going up a narrow genetic back alley,so to speak.

I don't know if my thinking is sound on this but it's the route I'm taking and should learn much along the way.

First pic is a Cheese clone carrying the BX1 seeds,other pics Cheese x Sk#1 F1 seeded bud.

ive seen your work bro,,,,its wickid stuff,,,,Cheese x Sk1 is one of my all time fave project ideas,,,,i see you came to the same conclushion,,,,grate minds, eh?.......


i say test the selfing route to its max,,,,,even test the Reverce Backcross just for kicks an laugh`s,,,,,

S2 is the Twiglet Zone,,,,crazy things might happen,,,,,,, wowowwowoow

 

[englishrick]

Hi GMT,

The selfing plays an important role of producing/isolating a plant to use as a recurrent parent that will effectively reproduce offspring resembling the recurrent parent at an acceptable rate. If the original clone when selfed gives rise to offspring that resembles it at a rate considered acceptable, then yes, back up and use the original clone as a recurrent parent - in this case we would have only used selfing for genotyping purposes. However if the S1's do not resemble the original clone at what is considered an acceptable rate, then by selfing we've found that out (that it would not be a very effective choice as a recurrent parent), as well as moved forward at a most efficient rate towards producing/isolating one that will. If A, then B, if C, then D.

i propose,,,,,crossing 2 different S1`s plants from the same mother might be very interesting,,,,,,,S1 x S1,,,i think it will limit phenotypes,,,,it sounds like im outcrossing 2 indervidual Selfed lines,,,,if i choose the right S1`s the results will be extreemly homogeneous yet it would still show hybrid vigor

 

[GMT]

Sorry Rick but you misunderstand . To be honest I'm ashamed to say that I'm not entirely sure of the correct terminology. F represents a sibling cross, f represents a selfed offspring, S is the term that has become popular, (Charles did a post on it a while ago and I didn't study it hard enough). So an S1 is an f1, so an S1xS1 would be an F2f1 or and f1F2 or something like that. But either way 2 S1s from the same P1 plant is not an outcross. We've gone over this. Afghani x Haze is an outcross because they are differnt breeds, but cheese S1 (a) x cheese S1 (b) is an incross and as such is not going to show hybrid vigour.

 

[Forest20]

(American proverb)
It doesn't work to leap a twenty-foot chasm in two ten-foot jumps.

 

[REZDOG]

Mostly,it causes a mess.

:smile:

 

[englishrick]

Sorry Rick but you misunderstand . To be honest I'm ashamed to say that I'm not entirely sure of the correct terminology. F represents a sibling cross, f represents a selfed offspring, S is the term that has become popular, (Charles did a post on it a while ago and I didn't study it hard enough). So an S1 is an f1, so an S1xS1 would be an F2f1 or and f1F2 or something like that. But either way 2 S1s from the same P1 plant is not an outcross. We've gone over this. Afghani x Haze is an outcross because they are differnt breeds, but cheese S1 (a) x cheese S1 (b) is an incross and as such is not going to show hybrid vigour.

i know exactly what your saying GMT,,,,,

yes,,,, Charles explained that S is just a popular term,,,,,Charles also explained the number after the "F" is whats important,,,,,,eg F5......in a "selfed line" the term F5 still applys ,,all it means is its been removed 5 times from the origonal line..

is that correct?

 

[englishrick]

Mostly,it causes a mess.

:smile:

im embarresed you got to see this mess Rez....you know i wouldnt do this in your fourm...

 

[Forest20]

Aldous Huxley:

There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self.
​

 

[GMT]

appart from a capital F refers to a male x female, a selfed generation is denoted by the small f or more popularly an S.

 

[Paco]

Mostly,it causes a mess.

:smile:

Rick, i think rez is saying that selfing and everything that you want to do will make a mess of your grow. You should listen to him if you are shirking Chimeras advice. Please come back to this once you have actually done something
Not trying to be rude, but you are posting 50+ posts a day, i don't see when you have time to do anything you are talking about.

 

[purpledomgoddes]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14571756/The-Biotechnology-of-Cannabis-Sativa
the bio technology of cannabis sativa

this may be helpful. enjoy your garden!

 

[Forest20]

“One's condition on marijuana is always existential. One can feel the importance of each moment and how it is changing one. One feels one's being, one becomes aware of the enormous apparatus of nothingness -- the hum of a hi-fi set, the emptiness of a pointless interruption, one becomes aware of the war between each of us, how the nothingness in each of us seeks to attack the being of others, how our being in turn is attacked by the nothingness in others.” - Norman Mailer

 

[englishrick]

appart from a capital F refers to a male x female, a selfed generation is denoted by the small f or more popularly an S.

ahh very good info,,,,i missed that bit,,,,il stop using the in favor of the [f]

in the case of 2 f`s from the same mother,,,what would the resulting seeds from f1 x f1 be?,,,,,,,would it be classed as an f incross?

in the case of 2 f coming from different mothers,,,,,what would the resulting seeds be f outcross

is the resulting seed from a Selfed indervidual classed as an inderpendant line?..

 

[GMT]

1) yes
2) depends on the lines the mothers came from, possably yes possably no.
3) independant lines need a line to be independant from. No line is independant of everything.

 

[Colina]

Keep using the S Rick , It clearly denotes the fact that we are moving at a rate more than twice than that of full-sib mating.

 

[englishrick]

1) yes
2) depends on the lines the mothers came from, possably yes possably no.
3) independant lines need a line to be independant from. No line is independant of everything.

ok

1) ok,,,,,f incross

2) ok,,,,,,if the 2 mothers are from different IBL lines...,,,,,,,.eg AfghanIBL f1 x HazeIBL f1?,,,,,,,,= f outcross?

3),,,,this is the point we dissagree on........

i think: when an indervidual is selfed,,,,this is 1 path to making an f IBL....an im thinkin: i could make many f IBL`s from the 1 origonal indervidual....am i wrong?

 

[Colina]

For the very reasons Chimera states,repeated backcrossing cannot result in a true Cheese chemotype

There was more there than that Rockster, the why nots gave hint to how to work around them.