Reverse Osmosis questions

[B00st3d]

the ro-45 is offered with an optional 14 gallon tank that can be placed up to 40 feet away which would be great for me since my water source is about 20 feet from where I grow. But whats the difference between the Apec tank and a regular FDA approved water tank like the ones they sell at bayteccontainers.com ? The Apec tank is pressurized and plumbed to work perfectly with the ro system. Seems like it would work flawlessly plus the ro 45 comes with a tiny tank thats not gonna do me much good so id be payin for something I cant really use.

However , I also like the idea of gettin a 30 gallon storage tank from baytec along with two 5 gallon jugs they sell cuz you can put the optional spigot on the jugs. So I could hold each 5 gallon jug under the storage tank and fill each one in a few minutes then mix my nutes into each 5 gallon jug, lay them down sideways and open the spigot on the jug to fill my liter bottle that I use to water. I need basically 30 gallons per week to suit my needs which means I could fill that 30 gallon tank they sell once a week which makes life easy.

How does RO water do when stored for up to a week? Does the PH drift and does it need to be oxygenated?

 

[Pharma Geddon]

afaik you can't have any metal in contact with ro because it will start 'absorbing' the metal, or whatever the process is called.

Go for the storage container if it looks like being handy for you. As I said before, I'm happy enough with the float valve on a res arrangement but that might not suit you.

 

[B00st3d]

ya the water storage containers have an optional plastic spigot you can get. Think Im gonna go ahead and get the 30 gallon container plus two 5 gallon jugs with spigots and I should be good to go. Im curious tho, does RO water have any oxygen in it ? Does anyone actually bubble their RO water or is it not needed? Gonna go ahead and order one tommorow most likely, just cant decide on which unit to get. If funds were unlimited I would get the 300 GPD Waterfall. I like the RO45 by apec but I dont wanna pay for something Im not gonna use and I wont ever use that 3 gallon container it comes with. Im curious tho if the PH of RO water depends on the source of the water or is it always gonna come out the same regardless of the source? Wish someone could answer that for me.

 

[sparkjumper]

I dont know but my tap is 350-400PPM and about 8 PH the R/O water is 20PPM and about 6 or slightly higher PH.When you use R/O water ferts affect the PH much more drastically then with tapwater.PH up and down also

 

[N707]

So I have realized my water is why my plants arent up to par. I use a Tall Boy filter which takes out chlorine and sediment. However the water comes out at 160 ppm according to my milwaukee TDS pen and at 6.8 ph or so. So by the time I add the "lucas formula" and enough PH down to get to 6.0, my ppm's are over 1500 on my pen. Not to mention all that ph down isnt good, I know its leading to nute lockouts.

I also notice that my filter which is rated at 2 gallon per minute is only flowin at half gallon per minute accordin to my inline "flow meter" So is that filter holdin back water pressure or is half gallon per minute what my faucet in there is capable of maximum? Will an RO filter flow out alot slower? I notice they dont rate them in GPM instead they go by gallons per day and they are all rated very very slow compared to what I have now. Even a 600 dollar RO filter seems like it will flow slower then what I have now.

The flip side is that RO water will come out at a lower PH meanin very little PH down will be needed. Right now I have to add over 3 teaspoons per gallon of PH down to get my lucas formula'd water down to 6.0!!! Thats insane. That 3 teaspoons adds several hundred PPM's which is just empty PPM's to me that do nothing but cause other nutes to lockout. Even a gallon of plain water with no nutes , once I PH it to 6.0 , comes out to over 650 PPM on my Milwaukee pen. Im pretty sure thats unheard of and def not safe.

So what I want to do is get an RO filter in hopes that I will solve my hardwater issues and get a lower PH. My PH doesnt change once I add my GH nutes, it stays around 6.8 or so, so in theory when I add my nutes to the RO water it should also stay the same, right around 6.0, right ?

Which RO filter is everyone else using and whats the most bang for the buck? I know I will prolly have to spend 600 bux. I need to be able to produce 8-12 gallons of water per day and like I said, I want it to be around 6 ph and have little to no TDS at all. I wanna fill two 5 gallon jugs at once, add my nutes and PH if needed. I dont want it to take me an hour or two either cuz hand watering all these 5 gallon buckets is a pain in the ass as it is. Am I on the right path here, does this all make sense? Im thinkin it does and I think this is the solution to the problems Im havin now with yellowing plants, smaller top colas then I should have and havin to buy a ton of PH down.

If your using any type of sediment filter and still getting tht high of a TDS then you need to return it for a different model or replace the cartridge.
A good physical sediment stage shoung eliminate over 99% of the TDS regaurdless of it's original content.
I would avoid those made for hydroponics personally as I havent purchased one that was up to par yet (have gone through afew).
Check out the reef 3 stage filters, those will help you out big time.
You can pickup a nice 4 stage with a UV sterilizer for around $190-$250.
You really should not have any ppm if your running a sediment stage.

Also , when using an RO.DI unit as stated you need to add a buffer to the water to keep it stable.

 

[sparkjumper]

What do you mean add a buffer to keep it stable.Cal-mag?

 

[B00st3d]

So the PH of RO water will be altered once I add nutes compared to my water now which doesnt lower or raise in PH at all after I add nutes. I can deal with that. And what do you mean by adding a buffer?

 

[oldgrayhair]

If your using any type of sediment filter and still getting tht high of a TDS then you need to return it for a different model or replace the cartridge.
A good physical sediment stage shoung eliminate over 99% of the TDS regaurdless of it's original content.
I would avoid those made for hydroponics personally as I havent purchased one that was up to par yet (have gone through afew).
Check out the reef 3 stage filters, those will help you out big time.
You can pickup a nice 4 stage with a UV sterilizer for around $190-$250.
You really should not have any ppm if your running a sediment stage.

Also , when using an RO.DI unit as stated you need to add a buffer to the water to keep it stable.

Not sure if you are confused writing this, but definitely wanted to clear up that sediment filters/stages do nothing for TDS....total dissolved solids. Sediment filters only remove non dissolved solids.

Peace - OGH

 

[sparkjumper]

Whatchu talkin bout buffer willis

 

[N707]

Not sure if you are confused writing this, but definitely wanted to clear up that sediment filters/stages do nothing for TDS....total dissolved solids. Sediment filters only remove non dissolved solids.

Peace - OGH

My bad read/responded off base altogether..lol.

I thought his post filter was running at 160 ppm....?
Even though the sediment filter is basically a solid state micron sock it should be removing nearly all impurities...especially if it is a gradient micron SF, giving effluent that reads a much lower TDS than 160..., and a nice neutral ph if its an ro/di. I think he was refering to his solution though post nutes, so I misunderstood him.
Buffers, are you guys serious....am I that wierd....lol?
You use ph up and down to adjust your ph, then a buffer to hold it there. Alot of folks just run up or down, I adjust after nutes then lock it in with a nice buffer. If you use a nice high quality buffer and adjust your nutes to match, you no longer have to battle ph.

 

[B00st3d]

I wasnt referring to my TDS after nutes, I meant before adding anything. The water comes out at around 150-160. I just use PH down, I dont add any buffer you speak of, plz explain what youre talkin bout. You still havent made that clear

 

[N707]

I wasnt referring to my TDS after nutes, I meant before adding anything. The water comes out at around 150-160. I just use PH down, I dont add any buffer you speak of, plz explain what youre talkin bout. You still havent made that clear

Let me start off by explaining my concern/what I practice.

I used to run a two stage filter, but still got diatom algae in my main res (a 350 gallon sump ona pallet), so I switched to an RO/DI4 tage unit with a uv sterilizer. The water put out my mine runs at a very consistant ph of 7 , near 0 TDS, generally neautral in ways of any impurities.

I realise that is not the type of filter you are using, but it does share two of the same stages, I think my main sediment stage is 3 parts...15,20,and an 80 (off my head i may be afew off) micron prefilter. Thats why I would assume your TDS should be lower somewhat, as mine is.
My tap water runs at a ph of about 8, and is loaded (lots of chloramins, sediments, iron, ect...) with a tds that is pretty freakin high @ a consistant 1000 or so. So is our nieghbors.
To get the ph to 5.7-6.0 I add the buffer powder which raises the alkalinity (degrees karbonat hardness) that in turn helps stabalises the ph. The buffer does contain some cabonates but they tend not to affect the availablitiy of nutes from what I have seen. By making sure that your alkalinity is on point gives the res a much more stable ph, as well as other elements that may be in your nutes. Also the soil may drag down or raise the res ph over time, so that can also be factored in. Its not super critical but helps out alot ime.

 

[B00st3d]

Ok well I hooked up my RO filter I got and Im gettin 4 ppm tds which is fine and dandy but now my PH is way higher then it was before. Now Im at 7.2 wtf! Its a 4 stage just RO, no DI. With the Tall boy filter I was gettin 6.8 PH which sucked cuz I had to add a ton of PH down to get to 6-6.1. So this doesnt help me at all. Everything I read said that it would come out betwen 6 and 6.3 yet here I am at 7.2. So now I gotta add PH down to get it where it needs to be or so I assume. Unless I can drop a single drop of PH down in there to lower it. WTF is up with this, this RO unit was supposed to simplify things and improve things and it seems to me that I might be in worse shape then I was before. Is the PH reading Im gettin from my pen possibly not accurate becuz of the low TDS and almost pure water Im gettin now? I know my pen is gonna need a new probe soon since its a year old but when I put it in the calibration solution it shows that its perfectly calibrated. What should I do now? Help!!!

 

[sparkjumper]

I dont know why your PH is so high but I wouldnt be too concerned with 4 PPM.I would rather have mine a little high than a little low since ferts bring down PH.I use a 5 stage apec system and my ph is close to six with my PPM's being close to 20 after 4 grows.Its 350-400 out of the tap.

 

[JohnnyToke]

Ok well I hooked up my RO filter I got and Im gettin 4 ppm tds which is fine and dandy but now my PH is way higher then it was before. Now Im at 7.2 wtf! Its a 4 stage just RO, no DI. With the Tall boy filter I was gettin 6.8 PH which sucked cuz I had to add a ton of PH down to get to 6-6.1. So this doesnt help me at all. Everything I read said that it would come out betwen 6 and 6.3 yet here I am at 7.2. So now I gotta add PH down to get it where it needs to be or so I assume. Unless I can drop a single drop of PH down in there to lower it. WTF is up with this, this RO unit was supposed to simplify things and improve things and it seems to me that I might be in worse shape then I was before. Is the PH reading Im gettin from my pen possibly not accurate becuz of the low TDS and almost pure water Im gettin now? I know my pen is gonna need a new probe soon since its a year old but when I put it in the calibration solution it shows that its perfectly calibrated. What should I do now? Help!!!

a suggestion. fill a gallon container with your RO from your new unit. now mix your normal nute mixture into the gallon of RO. see if your ph drops from the 7.2 reading you are getting with pure RO. it should drop it. the higher ppms you mix, the lower the PH should drop. this is with out any PH up or down.

also, what kind of ph down are you using to have to use so much to get your ph to drop RO water as you have stated? my RO water comes out about 5 ppms and a ph of 7.1. I add 1/16th tsp (tiny pinch) of ph down to a gallon and it drops it down to 5.7 - 5.9 quickly after stirring it in. im using GH powder up and down. a pinch of powder would be about 1 drop if using liquid PH down.

I never adjust PH in RO until after I have mixed my nutrients first and let it sit for a few minutes. then adjust ph as needed. I grow hydro so I mix to 5.8-5.9.

My mothers are in soil and I mix and adjust to 6.5-6.8 before watering. my mothers are healthy and producing daughters faster than I can use them.

if watering with plain RO, then you would need to adjust it down a little and like I said, it should take very little PH down to do this in RO whether you are growing in soil or hydro.

JT

 

[N707]

Ok well I hooked up my RO filter I got and Im gettin 4 ppm tds which is fine and dandy but now my PH is way higher then it was before. Now Im at 7.2 wtf! Its a 4 stage just RO, no DI. With the Tall boy filter I was gettin 6.8 PH which sucked cuz I had to add a ton of PH down to get to 6-6.1. So this doesnt help me at all. Everything I read said that it would come out betwen 6 and 6.3 yet here I am at 7.2. So now I gotta add PH down to get it where it needs to be or so I assume. Unless I can drop a single drop of PH down in there to lower it. WTF is up with this, this RO unit was supposed to simplify things and improve things and it seems to me that I might be in worse shape then I was before. Is the PH reading Im gettin from my pen possibly not accurate becuz of the low TDS and almost pure water Im gettin now? I know my pen is gonna need a new probe soon since its a year old but when I put it in the calibration solution it shows that its perfectly calibrated. What should I do now? Help!!!

Don;t worry bro, those arent that bad.
Also, if your running a 4 stage your water should be coming out very close to 7 (neutral).

This is my suggestion/routine

I frun my ro/di system for a day or so untill my main res is full.
I then check the ph/tds (tds just fto make sure my back end is functioning), nothing else.
My ph should be around 7. I use a ph 6.0 and a bit of ph down, that brings it to almost 5.5 on the button and holds it there. I then add the ph down once a week, my ph doesnt shift more than .3 ever.

OR you can just use ph down to get you res to 5.whatever but you will have to check it every couple of days.

RO/DI water should always be neutral in just about every aspect.