Resin Quality Of Pollinated VS Unpollinated Buds. Is There Any Difference?

[Sam_Skunkman]

What other psychoactive Cannabinoids besides THC?

Also you mention that resin is there to protect seeds and their DNA from UV, then why does an unseeded plant have more resin? To protect what?

-SamS

some peeps are saying it has added medicinal effects.

besides the cannabinoid ratio and terpenes ratio compared the actual plant weight itself, there will be less of both in seeded plants.

from my understanding, the resin itself has a smaller ratio of cannabinoids and terpenes from an extract of cannabis.

The cannabinoids are usually in the globular heads, so does that resin have anything different, assuming the length of the trichome has some other plant oils/waxes that can be different between unseeded and seeded possibly?

I assume the resin still stays the same, but as for added medicinal effects, it could be as small as one single action of a function of a cannabinoid modulating a portion of this medicinal effect.

Besides one single cannabinoid changing everything, which I believe if I smoke a good hybrid, it has CBD and THC, not other things that make the high feel different.

The other psychoactive cannabinoids affect the high and medicinal qualities.

The resin is there to preserve the seed DNA by absorbing UV I assume, since THC is the echelon of that plant intelligence. It is with great caution I posit that it is meant to absorb and maybe use this UV light to preserve it's DNA. Another reason is resin traps bugs, but also, I believe the plant in the equator region would have a high-molecular weight chain / optical crystal such as CBD and THC.

I believe at the equator THC has evolved while in the north it remains as hybrids and the natural cannabis has lost all of it's long-chain psychoactive properties for the most part.

Another difference could be the fats/waxes as to the bioavailability of ingested herb, because seeded plants might have more of those types of fats.

 

[SOTF420]

why does an unseeded plant have more resin?

Sam, obviously you know more about this subject than just about anyone around here but I have to say that everytime I pollinate a plant fully in early flower they seem to still ooze with resin and be extremely coated in fully developed trichomes. Because of the expansion of the calyx's with the seed inside it sometimes actually would appear at least visually that there is MORE resin on some seeded plants. Is this a hard fast law in the world of Cannabis or is there a genetic predisposition to more/less resin production when pollinated? As I have understood it the resin is there to protect the developing seeds possibly so it would make sense that it's production would be sustained while the plant was producing seeds after pollination. Asking this in an open minded and wanting to learn manner please feel free to point out anything you feel is relevant.

 

[huligun]

I remember being told many years ago that creating seedless made more resin.

The reasoning being that the pollen sticks to the resin. When a plant is denied pollen it tries harder, produces bigger buds with more resin to collect pollen.

Totally unscientific and unfounded but it seemed to make sense at the time.

 

[Ai Ze]

the problem starts when ppl talk about energy within plants

plants arent human, who say: "oh i got dusted, now im not lazy anymore, im using some energy to become busy"

the only energy involved is coming from the sun, pure photon energy (rest is a chemical reaction) ... so, if all plants get the same amount of photons, they will distribute that amount, as always showed by mother nature, the best economical way, they will split it with other words, to get same amounts of terpenoids just release more energy

take clones of those rope strains, and plant them a couple of thousand meters up higher towards the sun, you would be surpised by the results (the swiss are having for some dacades particullary that problem with exactly those eu rope strains)

also, speaking of terpenoids and in the same sentence (or study) about psychoactivity on examples of near 0 thc strains, which were bred against "terpenoids" is more than naive


best highs, had always a few seeds within the buds (classical landraces)

well, and indoors where you can "manipulate" that energy and its distribution, you wont loose 50% terpenoids, thats science fiction

 

[pineolene]

I am curious do you do any analysis or just read papers on the subject?
-SamS

Actually, I studied GC/MS specifically in college. Did you? Does that matter or just being grouchy? Analysis of my hash has been published in Kush Mag. What else do you want to know old friend?

I'm not really concerned about the amount (quantification) of cannabinoids and/or terpenoids in seeded versus sensi. Concentration isn't really important as the dose is completely up to the user. I'm interested in the molecules that work with THC to create what we call "high". Are these modulators different (possibly sub-atomic) in seeded bud? We simply do not know enough. And you sir are not a scientist (paging dr skunkman lol) so why the attitude?

 

[pineolene]

From an analytical discussion group I am part of, for Sam:

Active terpenes: the genus Salvia is full of highly active terpenoid compounds beginning with the infamous S.divinorum and Salvinorin A to the suspected diterepenes in P.violacea active terpenes abound in nature. Their non-alkaloidal nature make them highly unique with diverse effects from the most potent naturally occuring hallucinogen to the mild anxiolytic effect of S. splendens,coccinea and Out right stoned feelings from S. nemarosa. the activity of terpenes cant be discounted in Cannabis, as we all here have known and would like to quantify. My point is very little is known about the phamacokinetics of terpenes.And even less about their synergism with their close cousins the Cannabinoids.

What say you professor Skunkman?

 

[KonradZuse]

the problem starts when ppl talk about energy within plants

plants arent human, who say: "oh i got dusted, now im not lazy anymore, im using some energy to become busy"

the only energy involved is coming from the sun, pure photon energy (rest is a chemical reaction) ... so, if all plants get the same amount of photons, they will distribute that amount, as always showed by mother nature, the best economical way, they will split it with other words, to get same amounts of terpenoids just release more energy

take clones of those rope strains, and plant them a couple of thousand meters up higher towards the sun, you would be surpised by the results (the swiss are having for some dacades particullary that problem with exactly those eu rope strains)

also, speaking of terpenoids and in the same sentence (or study) about psychoactivity on examples of near 0 thc strains, which were bred against "terpenoids" is more than naive


best highs, had always a few seeds within the buds (classical landraces)

well, and indoors where you can "manipulate" that energy and its distribution, you wont loose 50% terpenoids, thats science fiction

Lots of nice info in here. Yes plants aren't like humans in respect in Energy, but they will absorb the sunlight and then at night apparently do cell division. The thing is that energy stored, when making seeds, should be giving all of their energy to the seeds and pass all of their genetics onto it.

Trich count and such SHOULD NOT matter. IMO who says that all Trichs are as strong? If you have 1 mega trich that's 10x as potent as any other plant, but is 1/2 less trichy on the buds? I just thought this up, but nothing I've ever read said they are consistent with potency..

Also terpenoids have been thrown out a lot in this... I thought they were just the taste/smell of the bud, but what else do they do?

 

[Ai Ze]

my understanding of this subject is as follows, terpenoids and cannbinoids are stages of a big chemical reaction chain, now to breed against cannabinoids also lowers terpenoids and vice versa, both have their chemical relationship within this reaction chain

im familiar with a handful of those rope strains (grown em, smoked em, baked em and also breed with em), and they have the same common ugly taste and smell, completly different than any other thc strain (total different terpenoid profile), also many of those rope strains are natural breed hermies (which furthermore puts this study into a shady questionable corner)

you are right about the stored energy within the plant, but where did it come from
and i also share your view on trics, im also a simple pragmatic guy .. how many bowls does it take, individual trics dont tell the whole story, and as i understand it, true lab test should (when done idealy) count and test all availible trics to come to a conclusion, not just one bud .. or some shake of the bud .. or however the lab technician decides ..

terpenoids are just plant singnal markers, plants way of communication with other plants of the same species ... (you got a female, which is hard to flower indoors ? .. put next to her a male plant ... just one of their communication ways .. cou will see, that girl will be easier and fater to flower) .. this communication is multifold, im sure it can even transport selfdefense infos, which induce more trics on neighbouring plants ...

well, all just observations ... without scientific proof, but with a few co - observers who have seen such "behavior" too on their plants


greetz

 

[devilgoob]

The reason I say that is equatorial strains that are very sativa, have a lot of THC and very clear high.

The absorption peak of THC is in the UV range, so when speaking in terms of the earth, the UV rays go right through the atmosphere at the equator, but other part of the world are angled - so they produce less big terpenes to diffract the light away from damaging the plant or letting the seed pods dry out themselves, because of moisture loss.

Ruderalis is a good measure of this, as is indica.

The intelligence of the plant is unknown, the trichomes I am sure are for stopping bugs, diffracting light, preventing moisture loss and possibly being a metabolic system using the light itself to produce the cannabinoids.

Another possible psychoactive chemical, could by an unknown mechanism, be acting. As all of them have not been isolated and tested.

Something called 2 cachexol or something close, is a known anxiolytic by the Dept of Health and Human Services. Another could be the shorter chain THC, which might not even act on the same parts of the brain. A dopamine blocker is sometimes hard to tell if you're on, but it blocks all D3 receptors and affects you...without you knowing it. It's illusionary until proven I guess.

People still do claim these, effects and not cannabinoid has been tested. The strains high in THCV and CBDV fight inflammatory cancer, I have researched.

So any afghani, that is purple.....is usually a good sign of this. The evidence is out there, but I am sure you know the THCV and CBDV come from around the middle east.

So there are fewer cannabinoids AND terpenes.......dang, that really does prove a point.....

I have ingested herb with fewer cannabinoids and terpenes, I wonder if the lower forms or different oil was upconverted to something in the liver when ingested. 11HydroxyTHC, from THC. So the hydroxlate of THCV and CBDV are what help in inflammatory (pretty much all cancer, autoimmune) cancer.

I also believe, little chemicals could play some chemical signaling. THC makes me hungry somehow, but does not take food from my stomach. Another cannabinoid is probably signaling the TRPV1 to signal more apoptsis in cells, from what I have been researching. THCV and CBDV play a big part, but there are other things they see their extracts do vs what THC and CBD are known for.

It's like ingesting THC, it's not the plant, it will not have the same effect. I know even CBD added, doesn't make me that drowsy......but a hybrid plant with other cannabinoids beside THC and CBD will make a person more tired and have an effect of the down-regulation after THC.

I have some science in me, but I am just saying things I have read in pubmed abstracts and based off my own knowledge about how light works.



Are you sure there isn't more CBD in seeded, because seeds take longer to mature and the resin heads would be more mature? I think that's the case......wow I am kind of foolish!

 

[Sour Deez]

Also terpenoids have been thrown out a lot in this... I thought they were just the taste/smell of the bud, but what else do they do?

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=217232&highlight=Wake+Smell+Terpenes

 

[Chamba]

The intelligence of the plant is unknown, the trichomes I am sure are for stopping bugs, diffracting light, preventing moisture loss and possibly being a metabolic system using the light itself to produce the cannabinoids.

Stopping bugs and animals, most probably, but that's only part of it

(I can't see why would cannabis evolve to diffract light or prevent moisture loss? to protect the developing seed? highly unlikely as the bract encloses the seed as it develops.)

I think the main reason cannabis evolved to produce resin is to protect the seeds (which are more palatable to birds and other animals when fully mature)...the main reason is not while the plant is alive, but when it is dead. I think resin protects the seeds from the elements, animals and insects over Winter, If the seeds were not protected from moisture in the Fall then they would germinate and not survive Winter. In Spring as the plant decomposes and breaks up, temps increase and the rains come, the seeds are exposed, germinate and another life cycle begins. As cannabis spread to tropical zones, these cannabis varieties developed to the environment by dropping seed rather than staying enclosed in the bracts.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I just just trying to understand where you were coming from, while I am not much of a scientist but I have worked with and directed them most of my adult life. No attitude intended.

-SamS

Actually, I studied GC/MS specifically in college. Did you? Does that matter or just being grouchy? Analysis of my hash has been published in Kush Mag. What else do you want to know old friend?

I'm not really concerned about the amount (quantification) of cannabinoids and/or terpenoids in seeded versus sensi. Concentration isn't really important as the dose is completely up to the user. I'm interested in the molecules that work with THC to create what we call "high". Are these modulators different (possibly sub-atomic) in seeded bud? We simply do not know enough. And you sir are not a scientist (paging dr skunkman lol) so why the attitude?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Very different terpenes, can you list one terpene found in Cannabis that gets you high without THC?

-SamS

From an analytical discussion group I am part of, for Sam:


What say you professor Skunkman?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

CBD and THC% yields are controlled by genetics, not if the plant is seeded or not. Yes I am sure.
-SamS

Are you sure there isn't more CBD in seeded, because seeds take longer to mature and the resin heads would be more mature? I think that's the case......wow I am kind of foolish!

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Why does unseeded Cannabis produce more resin then seeded plants if resin is to protect seeds?

-SamS

The intelligence of the plant is unknown, the trichomes I am sure are for stopping bugs, diffracting light, preventing moisture loss and possibly being a metabolic system using the light itself to produce the cannabinoids.

Stopping bugs and animals, most probably, but that's only part of it

(I can't see why would cannabis evolve to diffract light or prevent moisture loss? to protect the developing seed? highly unlikely as the bract encloses the seed as it develops.)

I think the main reason cannabis evolved to produce resin is to protect the seeds (which are more palatable to birds and other animals when fully mature)...the main reason is not while the plant is alive, but when it is dead. I think resin protects the seeds from the elements, animals and insects over Winter, If the seeds were not protected from moisture in the Fall then they would germinate and not survive Winter. In Spring as the plant decomposes and breaks up, temps increase and the rains come, the seeds are exposed, germinate and another life cycle begins. As cannabis spread to tropical zones, these cannabis varieties developed to the environment by dropping seed rather than staying enclosed in the bracts.

 

[Chamba]

Why does unseeded Cannabis produce more resin then seeded plants if resin is to protect seeds?

I don't know (but I'm sure you do!), maybe it's because to a plant, being seeded is all what's it about, and .an unseeded plant reacts to the lack of pollination by further protecting itself? one of the reasons that resin evolved was to discourage the plant's flowers in early flowering from being eaten and to ensure that there will be enough resin to protect the seeds over winter . An unseeded plant will have more bracts, so it will require more resin for when it becomes seeded to protect the seeds when the plant dies...but in terms of evolution, aren't seedless plants a bit like battery hens? a recent, artificial, unnatural, manufactured thing. Where cannabis grows wild, there are no seedless plants, so would it be best to look at wild populations to understand about why resin production came about and then why sensi plants have more resin?

 

[mad librettist]

Where cannabis grows wild, there are no seedless plants, so would it be best to look at wild populations to understand about why resin production came about and then why sensi plants have more resin?

there isn't any evidence showing resin is a defense ,mechanism, but there is plenty of evidence that it attracts certain animals, and those animals protect the plant.

 

[devilgoob]

sam, you're definitely right, the seeded don't create more resin and the genes control the cannabinoids CBD and THC, phenotypical representation of those genes is altered by environment.

mad librettist, although there is no evidence of the resin against bugs or the resin keeping in water, or protecting from heating and DNA damage through UV, or that the smell attracts certain animals and some animals don't break down the shell. We have no proof, only theory behind that proof. In the same way I have no proof that actual electrons are passing through my computer, I have enough knowledge to only assume I hold proof. The proof itself is only a theory, but theories are truer than laws, because a law in a human is absolute, while reality isn't. It's only a simple way to say we're only humans, let's make an assumption yet again on something and progress on the horizon of the unknown or the known, rather than stuck in paralysis of thought.

chamba that is a good theory, as resin is glass hard in winter temps and sublimates moisture.

In the same way I think, I am. These plants, they don't "think" persay, they do. A lot of what they do is so combinatory, that it doesn't even matter one specific case in which resin protects it, because it's a synthae of itself and it's environment.

There are two receptors CB1 and CB2 all throughout the body.

Different endocannabinoids will have different functions at different sites. So will the cannabis cannabinoids of that equivalence, which we have not yet discovered.

I hope I don't bother anybody, I'm not trying to make aggressive assertions, I just think there is more than just knowing......there is discovery, not only our past knowledge.

Is anybody listening when I talk about light angles and the atmosphere is different at the equator because it's direct rays and it's not diffracting sideways through the atmosphere separating blue light in the sky? I am talking about UV also.

If I was a plant, I would do all the things that resin does to protect myself.

Why no thorns? I smell good and certain animals have a UV eye for me and a stomach that cant break my seed case down?


I really like the difference between the northern and the equatorials, it teaches you a lot just based off that and not just the light, the roots, sun, evironment, animals, bugs.

Sativas have a lot of energy integrity, if a limb goes missing, the plant still spreads its canopy, which is different from a christmas tree. Sativas get a branch or two eaten or maybe bugs, but northern plants dont have to worry about that mucky, moist climate of bugs for the most part. The sativas, we can learn from and breed them perfect to the northern ones. Also separting their medicinal qualia have been a godsend to those looking for their own medicine.

 

[pineolene]

From Robert, the guy who runs Full Spectrum Lab in Colorado, is an actual scientist with an actual post graduate degree in this field and actually runs a lab.

cannabinoid ratio is stable male vs female. Seeded vs non seeded. We see about 1/10 the cannabinoid content in males vs non seeded females. Still see same base cannabinoid ratios...high thc, 50/50 thc/cbd....ect

 

[pineolene]

Very different terpenes, can you list one terpene found in Cannabis that gets you high without THC?

-SamS

I'd guess that the terpenes found in cannabis are wide and varied, and we don't know enough yet to say either way. The absence of evidence will never be the evidence of absence.