dont you love dogs? i got 7 baby shepherds that were just born 2 nights ago. yap yap yap!!! seven more mouths to feed
rescue dogs, so far too much trouble to deal with
- Thread starter Stoner4Life
- Start date
went to visit the vet today, took Scooby of course. He tested her for alpha/beta behavior w/me and assessed that she was submissive to me but agreed that she has a bit of a stubborn streak in her, as mentioned above she tries to dominate me anyway.
I love her so much and papa didn't raise no quitter, I don't know how I could ever forgive myself for giving up on her. the doc recommended Prozac for Scooby. me, I need some quaaludes, remember the old disco biscuits.......
Scooby's here to stay for now, my heart feels clean, guilt free. had I gone down the other road doubt and self-condemnation would have ruled my mind.
Scooby will have to sleep in her kennel from now on so we have no sudden outbursts I can't control, sometimes my sleep meds make me VERY lethargic & near impossible to wake. Alice loves her friend and evidently doesn't feel intimidated or threatened by Scooby, if Alice is so willing to forgive & forget so must I.
Thanks for all your kind words and support.
glad everything has worked out for you now
There is a reason they use the term dog eat dog. They have their own social structure that relies on strength. In packs of wild dogs only the most dominant female and male are allowed to breed. That insures strength in future generations. In a litter of wild dogs the strongest get more food and the weakest die. It is all designed into their instincts to survive and promote the species.
My big male and my pup have quite a social exchange. They will fight and hurt each other for great lengths. My big boy has all kinds of swollen marks on his head from the needle tooth pup biting him all up. But the big boy knows his role and that is make the pup strong and a leader in the pack, someone he can count on to watch his back.
A lot of sadness, but it is hard to change instincts. I hope you find the way to deal with this because humans probably don't have the answer, outside of separation.
My big male and my pup have quite a social exchange. They will fight and hurt each other for great lengths. My big boy has all kinds of swollen marks on his head from the needle tooth pup biting him all up. But the big boy knows his role and that is make the pup strong and a leader in the pack, someone he can count on to watch his back.
A lot of sadness, but it is hard to change instincts. I hope you find the way to deal with this because humans probably don't have the answer, outside of separation.
I know huli, my vet has recommended some behavior techniques to assure I'm respected as the only alpha including that I continue to let Scooby know that Alice is 'mine'.
It was 5-6 months since Scooby's last transgression and so hopefully when 30-40 days pass & the prozac begins to work Scooby might find some peace & calm in her day to day life. I'll be able to tell if she's relaxed any, I can always tell when she's feeling edgy.
I'm praying nothing escalates here, Scooby seems rather subdued today, she still knows she screwed up and I haven't scolded her or treated her unkindly in any way; in fact thinking it was her last day(s) with me I'd been spoiling her a bit, I was disappointed but spoiling her because she owns my heart just as much as Alice does.
I have to protect Alice from Scooby & then Scooby from Scooby.
Here's a pic from just 5 minutes ago.......
S
SeaMaiden
Stoner, I'm going to suggest you no longer allow Scooby up onto the bed or other furniture.
Any animal that's in a physically higher position is in a more dominant position. Horses are often just too stupid to realize that they're so much larger than you, but I digress and don't get me wrong, I love horses, dearly. They're just usually very easy to dominate.
You must also take full ownership of everything in the house, including Alice. That means that you will dictate every move Scooby makes, every move.
This is how I handle my dog, Hazel, because I knew that if I didn't she would have been a very dangerous dog. She was scary at 6mos old and half her current weight.
Hazel is not allowed to go where she pleases in the house, she is only allowed onto her bed, the living room floor when I allow her, and only in other rooms in the house when she's invited. There is now one weird exception to that rule, and that's during storms. For some reason she's becoming a bit neurotic during storms, so I put her by my feet next to the bed so she'll let me sleep (she pants hard when she's nervous).
The result is a rescued dog, one for whom we are her third set of owners (not counting whoever whelped her), with few allegiances but can be trusted completely and totally with humans and cats (she's very 'cat protective'). She must be watched with other dogs, absolutely must be watched, but I can call her off with a single, "AH AH!" She'll push other humans around, but knows that she can't pull that shit with me around. That doesn't mean she doesn't always test me. Why, just last night she swore she didn't remember what "lie down" means! Swore it, up and down.
Basically I rule the dog, in part because I know that's how it has to be, and in part because I am truly the Alpha Bitch. I've spent a shit-ton of hours watching shows where I can watch a dog's behaviors, and that has allowed me to learn to see the warnings of attack before the attack happens. Now I can spot it a mile away, just as I'm able to with horses, as long as I can see the dog's body well. Hazel I can read like the palm of my own hand.
I wouldn't be surprised if Scooby actually gives Alice warning, and that Alice and Scooby haven't yet sorted out which of them is to rule you and your spaces, thus the continued 'bickering' and fights between them. It's up to you to settle that debate between them, because there is no debate--you're the boss.
Any animal that's in a physically higher position is in a more dominant position. Horses are often just too stupid to realize that they're so much larger than you, but I digress and don't get me wrong, I love horses, dearly. They're just usually very easy to dominate.
You must also take full ownership of everything in the house, including Alice. That means that you will dictate every move Scooby makes, every move.
This is how I handle my dog, Hazel, because I knew that if I didn't she would have been a very dangerous dog. She was scary at 6mos old and half her current weight.
Hazel is not allowed to go where she pleases in the house, she is only allowed onto her bed, the living room floor when I allow her, and only in other rooms in the house when she's invited. There is now one weird exception to that rule, and that's during storms. For some reason she's becoming a bit neurotic during storms, so I put her by my feet next to the bed so she'll let me sleep (she pants hard when she's nervous).
The result is a rescued dog, one for whom we are her third set of owners (not counting whoever whelped her), with few allegiances but can be trusted completely and totally with humans and cats (she's very 'cat protective'). She must be watched with other dogs, absolutely must be watched, but I can call her off with a single, "AH AH!" She'll push other humans around, but knows that she can't pull that shit with me around. That doesn't mean she doesn't always test me. Why, just last night she swore she didn't remember what "lie down" means! Swore it, up and down.
Basically I rule the dog, in part because I know that's how it has to be, and in part because I am truly the Alpha Bitch. I've spent a shit-ton of hours watching shows where I can watch a dog's behaviors, and that has allowed me to learn to see the warnings of attack before the attack happens. Now I can spot it a mile away, just as I'm able to with horses, as long as I can see the dog's body well. Hazel I can read like the palm of my own hand.
I wouldn't be surprised if Scooby actually gives Alice warning, and that Alice and Scooby haven't yet sorted out which of them is to rule you and your spaces, thus the continued 'bickering' and fights between them. It's up to you to settle that debate between them, because there is no debate--you're the boss.
sounds cruel but I'm riding her hard as the aplha dog again, a position I won't ever relax or relinquish to her, by the time her last attack had happened I was looking @ 5-6 months of stellar behavior from her.
I let my guard down but that's not happening ever again.
a lot of you might see my attitudes here on the boards as pushy or domineering because I don't usually back down from any debating and I'm very outspoken, truth is that my house is a zone of tranquility (until shit like this happens).
after the first 4 attacks I rode Scooby pretty hard for a while, by the time the last one happened I was shocked as her months long behavior was everything I wanted in keeping harmony in our crib.
So until Alice is gone Scooby will have to deal w/my finger pointing in her face and elevated voice commands to make sure she knows who's boss 365/24/7. I hate to be the guy who bosses his dog around but she needs it. of course she'll get her love and treats and snuggles as scheduled, she needs that as equally as the rest of us, she'll never be treated as a 2nd class puppy. Scooby just needs continuous guidance.......
I know how all this, "person is the alpha dog" theory works, and I am not a huge fan. I know that is how Caesar Milan does it too, and he has a lot of my respect. However, I know people that take it to the point that they will slug their (pit bull) in the head with their fist, something I cannot do. I love my dog and I think the way I have brought him up he doesn't need a fist to the head to know he fucked up. The puppy on the other hand, rarely a day goes by that he don't get swatted on the ass (mostly for biting). I am trying train my pit bull pup to not express himself with his teeth, the way nature had designed him. Things are so but at least heading in the right direction. My biggest fear is my dog biting someone at 6 months old and my making the local news.
When you take on a dog it is much like taking on a child. You are where the buck stops on all matters, you are the alpha dog. Whatever you have to do you have to do, and it is up to only you to figure out what that is. You have to make appropriate adjustment as necessary to win. And bottom line with Ceasar Milan is that he offers a concept that is general for working with dogs. The details are up to you below the concept. The concept is the same with horses, and that is the animal is supposed to do what you say no matter what so help you god.
When you take on a dog it is much like taking on a child. You are where the buck stops on all matters, you are the alpha dog. Whatever you have to do you have to do, and it is up to only you to figure out what that is. You have to make appropriate adjustment as necessary to win. And bottom line with Ceasar Milan is that he offers a concept that is general for working with dogs. The details are up to you below the concept. The concept is the same with horses, and that is the animal is supposed to do what you say no matter what so help you god.
there's no bickering between them or I'd be able to assess the problem(s) & work on those issues like removing meaty bones from the treat menu(mentioned much earlier), now it's just biscuits and each dog knows she's getting exactly what the other one is.
each time this has happened it's been Scooby just snapping like a maniac out of nowhere, I wish I knew what the trigger might be to be able to correct it. I own a large home but we live in a small area, the dogs have been 4 feet away from me each time so I know there's been no verbal or body language warnings.
Alice is very laid back & never competes for love, Scooby is young & agile and she takes advantage of getting plenty of attention, it's 80/20 in favor of the Scoobs and that might be a BIG part of the issue w/her. Maybe by giving her more love she might consider herself higher on the food chain than she really is.
keeping my fingers crossed on the prozac, taking the edge off that puppy would make a huge difference in her day to day life.
deltagrower99
Member
With pitbull type dogs for the most part they dont show body language before they fight. They will also ignore it. the other dog could tuck it's tail and scream but the bulldog will keep going waging his tail. If your dogs are fighting already i would separate them for ever. They could be fine for months and then one day its on. Pitbulls can kill curdogs fast. Every pitbull owner should have a break stick in case your dog ever gets in a fight you can break it up quick.
S
SeaMaiden
I've had one occasion where a dog didn't show what was on its mind before it bit, and it was a bloodhound. If you watch their eyes, their bellies (the way they breathe changes), angle or set of ears, and if they've got it then the tail, you will see it coming.
Stoner, I think there's something happening that you're missing. They're giving each other a look, something, that's bringing it on. Perhaps the puppy Prozac will help, but I think that you will be able to do the most about this since you're going to take control.
Try redirecting his chewing and biting, then praise when he bites and chews what *you've* selected for him. He's a puppy, so it's gonna be at least a couple of years of this. Hell, Hazel is going to be 8yo and she still pulls what I call 'puppy shit' that a grown-ass dog just doesn't do. Like chewing shoes left on the porch. Come on, mang! You're a grown-ass dog!
All I have to do is give her a look and she knows. Doesn't mean she obeys, that Rhodesian ridgeback side is fucking stubborn, worse than a Rottweiler. But she's God damned smart, she KNOWS.
The exception to this rule are stallions who are fully self-aware. I know of no more dangerous domesticated animal except perhaps hogs or bulls. I'd like to show a clip of an 'orphan' horse, stallion, who I read the moment I laid eyes on him.
I still cannot watch the full sequence without becoming nauseous, heart rate going up and feeling like my heart is in my mouth because I once knew someone who was killed by a savage stallion who took her by the neck, snapped it. I saw the problems with this horse I'm going to show you when he was still in the horse trailer. The first time I watched it I took one look at him and even said aloud, "I would not get NEAR that horse!" The clip doesn't show that, it shows where this stallion showed exactly what business he meant, and he meant to kill.
This man is 'sacking out' the horse. I've done it many, many times and have NEVER seen a horse react like this. Then again, I've seen plenty of stallions at their worst and never would have been in the ring with him in the first place.
WARNING! It's a bit graphic and you can hear the horse's teeth make contact with the handler's skull.
[YOUTUBEIF]D7FMuIwI8vU[/YOUTUBEIF]
Stoner, I think there's something happening that you're missing. They're giving each other a look, something, that's bringing it on. Perhaps the puppy Prozac will help, but I think that you will be able to do the most about this since you're going to take control.
I know a lot of people who think it's cruel. I lost a friend over her feelings about how I treat my dog. However, I have never had to get rid of a dog or have it put down because of its aggression, towards me or a member of my family. This woman has had to put down SIX dogs for that very reason. IMO, it's the handler, not the dog, and she couldn't stop humanizing them to the point that they didn't know what to do except bite. It is NOT cruel, not in any way, shape or form. It is no more cruel than being a parent to your children.
They're not using Millan's techniques if they're HITTING the dogs. They're becoming frustrated if they're getting to that point, and nothing good happens from there on. That's like hitting a horse on the head, and you'd better believe that whenever I saw someone doing that I was all over them like white on rice!
Try redirecting his chewing and biting, then praise when he bites and chews what *you've* selected for him. He's a puppy, so it's gonna be at least a couple of years of this. Hell, Hazel is going to be 8yo and she still pulls what I call 'puppy shit' that a grown-ass dog just doesn't do. Like chewing shoes left on the porch. Come on, mang! You're a grown-ass dog!
All I have to do is give her a look and she knows. Doesn't mean she obeys, that Rhodesian ridgeback side is fucking stubborn, worse than a Rottweiler. But she's God damned smart, she KNOWS.
Well.. horses are different, we can talk about horses as I have quite a bit of experience and training there. It is far easier to dominate a horse, for two reasons. 1) It's tasty and knows it's tasty; 2) It's a herd animal with eyes on the SIDES of its head, aka an herbivore.
The exception to this rule are stallions who are fully self-aware. I know of no more dangerous domesticated animal except perhaps hogs or bulls. I'd like to show a clip of an 'orphan' horse, stallion, who I read the moment I laid eyes on him.
I still cannot watch the full sequence without becoming nauseous, heart rate going up and feeling like my heart is in my mouth because I once knew someone who was killed by a savage stallion who took her by the neck, snapped it. I saw the problems with this horse I'm going to show you when he was still in the horse trailer. The first time I watched it I took one look at him and even said aloud, "I would not get NEAR that horse!" The clip doesn't show that, it shows where this stallion showed exactly what business he meant, and he meant to kill.
This man is 'sacking out' the horse. I've done it many, many times and have NEVER seen a horse react like this. Then again, I've seen plenty of stallions at their worst and never would have been in the ring with him in the first place.
WARNING! It's a bit graphic and you can hear the horse's teeth make contact with the handler's skull.
[YOUTUBEIF]D7FMuIwI8vU[/YOUTUBEIF]
deltagrower99
Member
Pitbulls are on another level. I know some can have them live together with no problems but its never worked for me but i kept gamedogs. They are very different then other breeds with the way they act towrds other dogs. You wont beable to control that part its in there genes. Id never recommend a 2 dog house hold for pitbulls if you dont plan on keeping them separate. This isn't like 2 curdogs fighting your pitbull wont stop tell your dogs dead and some dogs would still go in to a dead dog. Other dogs wont Evan fight for a full minute tell one quits and then they stop. Game pitbulls will go 2 plus hours.
This may cheer everybody up , i doubt it will be on yahoo for too long so if it dissapears it`s available on youtube . Rottweiler & baby .
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-shows-baby-boy-giggling-dog-licks-hands.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-shows-baby-boy-giggling-dog-licks-hands.html
S
SeaMaiden
If people saw what my boys did to our Rottie, they'd be shocked and maybe not a little annoyed that I would let them pull on his pud, stick their hands into his mouth, take food away, take toys away, climb ALL over him. His response if they were doing something annoying? Lick 'em, lick 'em good! A good dog knows that it can lick a kid up the face and that stops all annoying behavior in its tracks.
Thanks for sharing that, MJ. It reminds me of that old dog, Harley. Ugly as hell, a real son of a bitch to adult men he didn't know, but kids were all his. I raised my boys with that dog, guess I should have gotten some video!
Thanks for sharing that, MJ. It reminds me of that old dog, Harley. Ugly as hell, a real son of a bitch to adult men he didn't know, but kids were all his. I raised my boys with that dog, guess I should have gotten some video!
That rotty is like my big boy pit. He love babies and wags his tail every time he sees one. I think initially he was attracted to the food they dropped and licking their faces meant a taste of whatever they were eating.. Just a theory.
When it comes to adult men, especially in uniform, he is a terrifying threat. He don't bite, but assumes an aggressive posture and behavior that allows very little to the imagination. He has a thing about guns too, he always alarms me when someone is packing heat. There is this tall thing guy named Scottie in my circle of friends. Scottie is a creep, he is taller than me and wears a hat. Things that bug my boy, but then add the gun he carries. Scotty could come over a million times and my dog will always corner him. I don't care for Scottie so I never say anything to my dog about stopping it either. I would rather the freaking meth head just stay away.
I can't begin to tell you how many '2nd chances' I've had all my life, I'm gonna do everything I can to keep the peace and our home intact. the good news is that Scooby has had only one nightmare since starting her on prozac.......
