Repuk's First Outdoor Run: ACE's Honduras, Ethiopian and Lebanese

[repuk]

This is going to be my first outdoor, organic grow, zero experience growing outdoors, my latest attempt with some autos I got gifted was a disaster... one died, another ended up the size of a lollipop, and the third yielded about 6 grams...

Learning as much as I can as I'm growing fruit trees and a vegetable garden too.

All and any advice is welcome!

Final Place/Pots
I thought on putting them straight in the dirt, but then thought of the convenience of using big pots: if the need arises to be able to move the plants. Thinking on getting 40L baskets (espuertas)
to use as definitive pots. Should them be bigger?

Soil
The soil clay content is rather high, as I'm really close to a river.
It is really rich soil, full of nutes (this soil has been worked on organically on recent years) I had to deal at weed out time with impressive tall nettles, ground carpeted full of yellow oxalis (clovers) flowers, tons of Zantedeschia aethiopica growing wild too.

I thought on ammending the (ground) soil in the final pots with a high peat content, light soil, 50/50 to ease drainage. Maybe a thin layer of compost as dressing on the top on the final pots?

Fertilization
From what I've read at ACE's descriptions, looks like no additional fertilization will be needed?

Sowing
I guess is the right time to start the (regular) seeds indoors, how should I harden them once I bring them outdoors (thinking that would be by the end of May)? Leaving them at the shadow several days?

Potting/initial medium
I usually repot and use dry/wet cycles in coco.

I thought on starting them in coco (easier for me indoors), then move to soil when bringing them outdoors. Or should I sow in soil from the beggining?

 

[Kaskadian]

This is going to be my first outdoor, organic grow, zero experience growing outdoors, my latest attempt with some autos I got gifted was a disaster... one died, another ended up the size of a lollipop, and the third yielded about 6 grams...

Learning as much as I can as I'm growing fruit trees and a vegetable garden too.

All and any advice is welcome!

Final Place/Pots
I thought on putting them straight in the dirt, but then thought of the convenience of using big pots: if the need arises to be able to move the plants. Thinking on getting 40L baskets (espuertas)
to use as definitive pots. Should them be bigger?

Soil
The soil clay content is rather high, as I'm really close to a river.
It is really rich soil, full of nutes (this soil has been worked on organically on recent years) as I had to deal with impressive tall nettles, carpeted full of yellow oxalis (clovers) flowers. Tons of Zantedeschia aethiopica growing wild too.

I thought on ammending the soil in the final pots with a high peat content, light soil, 50/50 to ease drainage. Maybe a thin layer of compost as dressing on the top on the final pots?

Fertilization
From what I've read at ACE's descriptions, looks like no additional fertilization will be needed?

Sowing
I guess is the right time to start the (regular) seeds indoors, how should I harden them once I bring them outdoors (thinking that would be by the end of May)? Leaving them at the shadow several days?

Potting/initial medium
I usually repot and use dry/wet cycles in coco.

I thought on starting them in coco (easier for me indoors), then move to soil when bringing them outdoors. Or should I sow in soil from the beggining?

Congrats on choosing some solid Ace genetics to grow outdoors! I'm definitely tagging along for the show.

Potting
If you're going with pots outdoors I'm of the opinion that bigger is better. These plants are going to get massive and they're going to have a nice large root system that's going to search out and discover every inch of that pot. Is doing a raised bed or large fabric "smart pot" an option for you? Dubi has talked about the potential for Lebanese to auto flower if it doesn't have enough root space so you'll want to keep that in mind. The Honduras and Ethiopian will both produce monsters outdoors.

Soil/Fertilization
I'll let others more experienced with soil comment on the mixture. I don't know much about amending soil, but a good rich soil is excellent for these plants. You should need very little fertilizer throughout the entire grow should your soil provide a sufficient amount of nutrients for them. I don't know about top dressing the soil with compost but perhaps you could mix it in while you're amending what you've got. I'm a coco grower primarily so I would rather just admit I don't have a ton of experience with soil rather than give potentially poor advice.

Sowing
Hardening off your plants is pretty easy. You could either offer them limited exposure (put them out for a few hours, bring them in), or put them outside on a patio or somewhere where they will not be getting strong direct sunlight for the entire day. I usually like to leave my outdoor plants under my covered patio where they can get indirect sunlight for most of the day then I move them under direct sunlight for a few hours at a time and gradually increase the amount of direct sunlight they're receiving.

Potting/Medium
As far as transplanting goes I would imagine it would be less stressful to go from soil into soil. With coco (as you're aware) you're looking at adjustments of PH, different water requirements, etc. I haven't tried transplanting from coco into soil but I imagine it could potentially cause stress. If you have the ability to start in soil then move them into soil I'd say that's going to be your best bet.

Best of luck this season!

 

[repuk]

for all the advice Kaskadian!

Pots
Gonna rethink pot size, you're right. Will aim for minimum 122L (30gal) Smart Pots then. Yes thought on raised beds, but that wouldn't be practical to move. May use that though for peppers.

Hardening
Note taken!

Initial Potting
Yes, I've done that in the past on my last grow, and definitely the plant didn't like it at all.

Maybe sowing them straight into the peat based light feed soil will be the best option? Washing it maybe to be sure of not being to hot for seedlings?

 

[Kaskadian]

for all the advice Kaskadian!

Pots
Gonna rethink pot size, you're right. Will aim for minimum 122L (30gal) Smart Pots then. Yes thought on raised beds, but that wouldn't be practical to move. May use that though for peppers.

Hardening
Note taken!

Initial Potting
Yes, I've done that in the past on my last grow, and definitely the plant didn't like it at all.

Maybe sowing them straight into the peat based light feed soil will be the best option? Washing it maybe to be sure of not being to hot for seedlings?

Happy to help my friend! You'll do great and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing these gals under some beautiful Spanish sun. I'm definitely jealous of your local climate. I love where I'm at but I'd trade it in for Spain in a second.

I don't think you need to be overly concerned with the soil being to hot unless you're putting it into something like super soil. A lot of folks around here start their seedlings directly into something like Fox Farm Ocean Forest/Happy Frog which is a relatively nutrient rich soil. I was starting a landrace grow late last year that unfortunately ended per-maturely because of a family problem but I started Green Haze, Purple Haze x Honduras, and Mangobiche all in the Fox Farm Happy Frog without any issues. A similar soil should sustain the plants for quite a long time until they get transplanted again. If you use a nutrient rich soil similar to those mentioned above they'll be fine with nothing but water for quite some time.

I took the long road to answering your question... sorry! I think a light peat based soil would be absolutely okay as well. When I wasn't growing in coco I used to often use a mix of 40% ProMix, 40% Perlite, and 20% Earthworm Castings (1-0-0).

Cheers!

 

[repuk]

I really enjoy reading your advice, feel free to elaborate all that you want

Ok, then I think this soil will be fine. I planted four avocado trees last year (which need tons of drainage) directly on the ground, I had enough of this soil for one of them to amend its spot, had to use other soils for the rest.

Fast forward one year, this (young) avocado is leaning off due to flower weight, and have all its leaves new ones sprouting all over... whereas the others didn't like the other soils that much (burnt leaf, lost all leaves, etc) and are "recovering" now.

If it was that good for the avocado, I'm sure it will be for the seedlings

My idea to acclimate the plants is to start mixing in ground soil with the peat based one at higher proportions each time I repot, does that make sense?

 

[farmerlion]

Kaskadian, nice detailed answer.

Repuk, I also use the 30 gallon sized pots/ grow bags.
I still have cloudy weather in May. I seed straight into main grow bags with a keg cup sized holes filled with starter mix packed in. My soil here is rock hard clay. I buy soil and add worm castings. The Ace genetics will do the rest. I'm also running Lebanese this season. I look forward to seeing your grow.
I've never had a problem with the Ace genetics getting to much sun. They will thrive.
Peace brother

 

[repuk]

Thanks for passing by Farmerlion!

The size reference I got from your Greenhouse posts

They'd better be prepared for Spain sun... they're gonna thrive!

I'm sure we will reach 45C/113F at shadows already in May... rest of summer 50C/122C at the sun is not rare at all at midday, I'm on one of the hottest Spain inland areas (South)... thought on a greenhouse but I'm afraid it won't work with these temps?

 

[farmerlion]

I don't have to deal with that much heat. We rarely see 100f. Only a couple days a summer at best. Dubi would be the one for the best scenario on young plants outside.
Have a great week and happy growing. Peace

 

[orfeas]

Oye, repuk, growing toms is similar to growing cannabis...you're good so far... however there's this pot thing that baffles me, I mean you logically plan 40 lt ones, transportable alright, then you aim for 122 lt, transportable? quite a load to haul about...

Have a nice ride, amigo!

orfeas

 

[Widow P]

Hi.
Nice strains for your out.
For the begining, i prefer to use seed potting soil.
When the plant is about fifteen centimeters, you can transplant it in its final pot.
For the pot you could use large bin with handle (around 100 liters).
If you want to move it, it's possible with two guys.
Good grow.
Peace

 

[repuk]

@orfeas: I know, >120kg is not exactly "portable", but still could be moved around if the need arises, as Widow P pointed out could be carried by two.

Still better than being directly on the ground, where the only solution would be culling them... and I want to watch some trees

@Widow P: great idea! (bins)..

thank you all for the advice!

Will be sowing two of each tomorrow, in soil. Thinking also on a Zamaldelica clone if I get a girl from the indoor grow... should be a lovely plant outdoors here.

 

[dubi]

This is going to be my first outdoor, organic grow, zero experience growing outdoors, my latest attempt with some autos I got gifted was a disaster... one died, another ended up the size of a lollipop, and the third yielded about 6 grams...

Learning as much as I can as I'm growing fruit trees and a vegetable garden too.

All and any advice is welcome!

Final Place/Pots
I thought on putting them straight in the dirt, but then thought of the convenience of using big pots: if the need arises to be able to move the plants. Thinking on getting 40L baskets (espuertas)
to use as definitive pots. Should them be bigger?

Soil
The soil clay content is rather high, as I'm really close to a river.
It is really rich soil, full of nutes (this soil has been worked on organically on recent years) I had to deal at weed out time with impressive tall nettles, ground carpeted full of yellow oxalis (clovers) flowers, tons of Zantedeschia aethiopica growing wild too.

I thought on ammending the (ground) soil in the final pots with a high peat content, light soil, 50/50 to ease drainage. Maybe a thin layer of compost as dressing on the top on the final pots?

Fertilization
From what I've read at ACE's descriptions, looks like no additional fertilization will be needed?

Sowing
I guess is the right time to start the (regular) seeds indoors, how should I harden them once I bring them outdoors (thinking that would be by the end of May)? Leaving them at the shadow several days?

Potting/initial medium
I usually repot and use dry/wet cycles in coco.

I thought on starting them in coco (easier for me indoors), then move to soil when bringing them outdoors. Or should I sow in soil from the beggining?

Hi repuk,

Thanks for choosing our genetics for your first outdoor grow

Correct me if i'm wrong, you are planning to grow them in pots and not directly in the ground. One of the main failures that outdoor growers when growing with small/medium pots do (especially in hot terraces like in south of Spain) is to provide the plants too big pots when they are growing, so the plants have a great growth, but later when they are about to flower the grower doesn't transplant them again with the fear that the plants get too big ... then the plants suffer from ph unbalance, salt saturation and from lack of new nutrients and lack of new space for the roots in the most important moment of the cycle: when the plants are flowering.

My main recommendation regarding pot size and transplantings would be to start them in medium sized pots during their growth, and only transplant to final bigger pot when they start to flower, so plants have all the new nutrients and space for the roots to use them for flowering stage.

Clay is not the best soil for growing cannabis, the clay becomes too hard when it is dry and the ph of clay is usually very high. If you are growing in pots then i would recommend you to use a soil based on mainly high quality peat (90 %) with a bit of worm casting (10%) for the growing stage, you can add perlite to improve soil aeration or vermiculite to improve the retention of water of your soil. For the flowering transplant add guano in powder.

Another key factor when growing in pots is the use of clean high quality water (rain water or osmotic water) and to water/feed always in the correct ph range for soil (6.5-6.8).

Lebanese, Ethiopia and Honduras are sativas with low/mild fertilizer requirements. Start them in their first weeks of life with a soft soil mix (peat + coco fiber for example), after 1 month of life they will start to enjoy richer soils (peat + worm casting), until then the soil will provide most of the nutrients they need, so you won't probably need to fertilize in their first month and half of life. You can fertilize them when plants pass the seedling stage, but usually at third or half dosage than the recommended by the fertilizer company.
It's always recommended to fertilize a bit in the first 2/3 parts of the flowering to increase yield.

Take also in consideration that Lebanese will start to flower around first half of July while Honduras and Ethiopian will start to flower around mid September, so plan accordingly.

I would start/plant them directly outdoors in the place you plan to develop your grow. I don't see any benefit starting them indoors. Just protect the seedlings in their first days of life from the intense mid day sun and from excessive heat from the ground of the terrace (typical in summer in our country).

Hope it helps, feel free to ask any doubt you could have during their development.

Best wishes! dubi

 

[repuk]

Hi repuk,

Thanks for choosing our genetics for your first outdoor grow

Correct me if i'm wrong, you are planning to grow them in pots and not directly in the ground. One of the main failures that outdoor growers when growing with small/medium pots do (especially in hot terraces like in south of Spain) is to provide the plants too big pots when they are growing, so the plants have a great growth, but later when they are about to flower the grower doesn't transplant them again with the fear that the plants get too big ... then the plants suffer from ph unbalance, salt saturation and from lack of new nutrients and lack of new space for the roots in the most important moment of the cycle: when the plants are flowering.

My main recommendation regarding pot size and transplantings would be to start them in medium sized pots during their growth, and only transplant to final bigger pot when they start to flower, so plants have all the new nutrients and space for the roots to use them for flowering stage.

A thousand thanks for all the advice dubi!

Note taken, plan to up-pot prior to flower. One week in advance, or once I see it starts flowering?

Clay is not the best soil for growing cannabis, the clay becomes too hard when it is dry and the ph of clay is usually very high. If you are growing in pots then i would recommend you to use a soil based on mainly high quality peat (90 %) with a bit of worm casting (10%) for the growing stage, you can add perlite to improve soil aeration or vermiculite to improve the retention of water of your soil. For the flowering transplant add guano in powder.

Any recommendation regarding high quality peat brands commonly found around here for agriculture suppliers?

For the flowering transplant, you mean using again 90/10 peat/worm castings, adding guano on top?

Another key factor when growing in pots is the use of clean high quality water (rain water or osmotic water) and to water/feed always in the correct ph range for soil (6.5-6.8).

Ok... ground water here in Seville is very alcaloid, PH8-9. Will plan a tank or pond to treat it organically and lower the PH, would like to avoid the need for an RO filter.

Lebanese, Ethiopia and Honduras are sativas with low/mild fertilizer requirements. Start them in their first weeks of life with a soft soil mix (peat + coco fiber for example), after 1 month of life they will start to enjoy richer soils (peat + worm casting), until then the soil will provide most of the nutrients they need, so you won't probably need to fertilize in their first month and half of life. You can fertilize them when plants pass the seedling stage, but usually at third or half dosage than the recommended by the fertilizer company.
It's always recommended to fertilize a bit in the first 2/3 parts of the flowering to increase yield.

Take also in consideration that Lebanese will start to flower around first half of July while Honduras and Ethiopian will start to flower around mid September, so plan accordingly.

Priceless

Regarding vegging and flowering pot sizes? could be 30gal/100L, final size for flowering? what about vegging pot size? 60% of final flowering one? (concerned with the Lebanese)

I would start/plant them directly outdoors in the place you plan to develop your grow. I don't see any benefit starting them indoors. Just protect the seedlings in their first days of life from the intense mid day sun and from excessive heat from the ground of the terrace (typical in summer in our country).

Hope it helps, feel free to ask any doubt you could have during their development.

Best wishes! dubi

I noticed something today: the seedling tent is temp controlled to 21C in winter, but as we've had a couple spring days with high temps, it was hovering 30C... expected to see the Malawi and Panama seedlings stressed, but they were actually thriving and had grown 3x their size/volume!

That coupled with the two kind of stalled Zamaldelicas at the big tent made me think these genetics do actually need high temps to thrive? (temps in the big tent hover between 16-22C, I'd say 18C average, which I put the shame on the Zamaldelicas stall)

Outdoors, I still see morning frosts, my question being: should wait a little before sowing them outdoors? Maybe bring them indoors to sleep?

 

[dubi]

A thousand thanks for all the advice dubi!

Note taken, plan to up-pot prior to flower. One week in advance, or once I see it starts flowering?

Hi repuk,

A pleasure to help

Sativas react very well to transplant even in early flowering, especially the more tropical sativas have a very active root system in early flowering.

For the flowering transplant, you mean using again 90/10 peat/worm castings, adding guano on top?

You can add guano after the seedling stage for the rest of the growing stage and especially for the flowering. It's better to mix uniformly the guano with the soil although add it later on the top also works quite well.

Plagron's guano or Guanokalong work quite well, i usually add a fistful of guano per 7 liters of soil mix when working with heavy feeders. In your case i would recommend you to add half of this quantity, because lebanese, honduras and ethiopian need lesser nutrients.

would like to avoid the need for an RO filter.

Not sure how is the EC of your tap water, but if the EC of your tap water is too high and considering you live in an area with very hot summers and considering you are going to grow several plants of medium/big size, then a source of abundant good water will be a must to get the best from the genetics you are growing.

I know is another expense, but you will recover the investment with just an outdoor grow, and you will have a source of good water for future outdoor and indoor grows and for your own use at home. It's really worth it.

Regarding vegging and flowering pot sizes? could be 30gal/100L, final size for flowering? what about vegging pot size? 60% of final flowering one? (concerned with the Lebanese)

That's very appropriate for a terrace outdoor grow.

I noticed something today: the seedling tent is temp controlled to 21C in winter, but as we've had a couple spring days with high temps, it was hovering 30C... expected to see the two seedlings stressed but they were actually thriving and had grown 3x their size/volume!

That coupled with the two kind of stalled Zamaldelicas at the big tent made me think these genetics do actually need high temps to thrive? (temps in the big tent hover between 16-22C, I'd say 18C average, which I put the shame on the Zamaldelicas stall)

Outdoors, I still see morning frosts, my question being: should wait a little before sowing them outdoors? Maybe bring them indoors to sleep?

Tropical sativas certainly enjoy with high temps (between 24ºC up to 35ºC) although too hot temps produce excessive stretching indoors and too lanky structures. Outdoors, plants can handle better the hot temps.

Outdoors, I still see morning frosts, my question being: should wait a little before sowing them outdoors? Maybe bring them indoors to sleep?

If you live in hot coastal or lowland climate in south Spain like Seville then you can perfectly start to plant your seeds without fear of frosts, only in very continental highland areas like Granada you would need to be carefull with the planting in early spring.

Hope it helps! dubi

 

[repuk]

I sowed a couple seeds from each this morning (full moon today)...

Keeping them in the meanwhile at a nursery/greenhouse of sorts (not used yet hen coop, under a translucent plastic roof, same place I'm starting all my vegetables with great results) the journey has begun!

I used same soil mix I sourced locally, which I used to start peppers and tomatoes: happens to be almost exactly your advice out of the bag Dubi: quality peat lightly enriched with worm manure. It feels lighter than coco and it's incredibly porous...

Had a look at my oldest compost bin, compost (heaps of soil worms) looks perfect (like used coffee grinds), being a year+ old, I aireated it to mature in order to mix-in a little of it at repotting time when seedlings are 2 weeks+ old..

Ordering Leonardite this week, to be used in the vegetables garden to amend the otherwise incredibly rich soil (only issue being high clay content), will add some to the most recent compost piles too, to speed up and homogeinize the process.

 

[repuk]

6 days later: breaking soil...

6 days later: breaking soil...

Phew... this is why I suck badly growing with soil, I don't have patience and my reference timings come from coco, I thought they weren't going to make it!

An Ethiopian hasn't raised its little head yet, hoping for the best.

 

[Nup]

Gonna be a super grow! That Spanish sun will no doubt work wonders

Waiting for seeds to pop their heads out can be a painfully patient exercise.
A bit off topic: What soil mix did you find the avocados like best? They can be hard to keep happy.

 

[repuk]

They like good drainage, medium water-retentive soil, rich in organics (humics), but not too hot on nitrogen. Loamy soils.

Placement is key, they don't like wind at all. As much sun as possible, but they'll need watering each night.

My soil has lots of clay, best results I got on their beds (planted four and used different mixes on each) was a very light, loose soil (naturplant blumenerde) mixed with universal substrate cejudo (really high on humics), 2:1 proportion. Added like 1 of compost to that (i.e. per each "big" 3 year, implanted, suppossedly yielding hass avocado about 1,5m tall, used 70L Naturplant blumenerde, 35L substrato universal Cejudo, 25L compost).

I make their beds regularly adding my used coco on each mj crop/cull and add compost repeteadly to their foot, along with earth worms when I (really easilly) find some. Some I share with hens, but I keep them from reaching the tree stem failing short by at less 40 cm, can only keep the outer perimeter, but obviously this means good, steady slow release nitrogen supply from hens at a "distance".

You know those old bush fresh, light but very dark and fragant soil? With turba, ferns? That's the kind of soil they like.

Also you should shape them so that leaves get good sun exposure but protect harsh sun rays from hitting the avocado fruits.

The best is to get the own ground natural and optimal processes going so that a healthy root/soil ecosystem is created.

Cool, humid feet, happy tree.

They've exploded now, but it took a year to get them well established. Water them regularly, you know a ficus elastica? Similar tastes for soil and climate.

Having flat or irregular pieces of clay from broken pots, bricks and wood pieces etc around the tree feet also helps on keeping humidity and a healthy ecosystem for worms. Some rusting iron pieces too.

 

[Nup]

Cheers, lots to take aboard - much appreciated!
I have them indoors, they're due a transplant and different soil is certainly in needed.
Happy growing

 

[farmerlion]

Waiting for the seedlings to poke through is agony. I soaked and warmed mine, but not to the tap root. Placed them in main grow bags, four days nothing. Shit, I'll regerminate more seeds with tap roots. So as they are popping now. Low and behold stuff is coming up in the bags.
Damn my impatient side of life. So some are going outside in freshened up soil. So now I have Erdpurt and Panama Deep Chunk added to the list. I will let the outside plants be a little neglected but not abused. So I basically wasted a couple hundred dollars worth of genetics.
So again my Ace germination rates were very good.....Twice. Peace