Remote CFL Ballasts..... Who has the skinny on these?

[DonkeyPunch]

DP, have you considered mixing HPS with PL-L's? I seriously think there is some potential there.

One thing I don't like about HID is the fact that it is point source which requires you to move the plants (or the light source) to get uniform growth. PL-L's on the other hand, while not as intense HID's do provide a more evenly distributed light source. In addition, fluoro's offer the option of combining different color temperatures (2700k to 10,000K+) which would allow one to customize the blue to red ratio depending on your needs. In theory by using more blue one could offset the stretching that is often seen when using just HPS. Just sharing thoughts

-bakelite

I am strongly considering mixing. I have always used HID in the past.

I was thinking of trying all PL-L this go round, but I have not found many threads with people using them, and don't have a great idea of how well they work yet.

I am starting to think maybe a 250 HPS in a cooltube, and 4 PL-L's around the box hitting the sides of the plants might do it...

 

[DonkeyPunch]

Oi, looks like I slipped on my meds again. Sorry


I think the question you should seriously pose to yourself is.... "How much are you going to need?" That's really going to establish what type of light you're going to need.

If it's just you, 220w of PL-L lamps are going to bury you in smoke if you follow the Lucas formula and go hydro. You won't need all those extra lamps, it will run super quiet and you can cool it with a single Panasonic Whisper CEILING 80cfm fan. About $100 on sale.

If it's 2 people or you're treating cancer I'd definitely go with HID, depending on how much they require as well. I'd recommend a 400w CMH lamp for maximum potency and minimum Infra-Red heat to deal with. Best of both worlds.

So.... How much do you use currently each month and what quality is the source?

Wife and I use about an ounce a month, and I would say the quality is fairly kick ass, but of course I am biased to my own shit.

 

[bakelite]

I am strongly considering mixing. I have always used HID in the past.

I was thinking of trying all PL-L this go round, but I have not found many threads with people using them, and don't have a great idea of how well they work yet.

I am starting to think maybe a 250 HPS in a cooltube, and 4 PL-L's around the box hitting the sides of the plants might do it...

DP, that sounds like a plan

I'm in the process of running my first complete PL-L grow right now. I'm running 4 x 55 watt PL-L's (3500k). I'm about 2 weeks into 12/12 right now. The plants are just showing their sex and are nice and healthy and bushy and green. I'll have a better idea as to how well they work in about another 6 weeks or so. I finally got the temps under control (a S&P TD100X did the trick, temps are 75-79F with lights on :smile

My other cab is a 250 hps in a cool tube, just like you were thinking of. One of these days I should run a clone under under each and compare them.

-bakelite

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I am strongly considering mixing. I have always used HID in the past.

Me Too! Started with 150w's and ended up with a 1000w Switchable.

I was thinking of trying all PL-L this go round, but I have not found many threads with people using them, and don't have a great idea of how well they work yet.

You'll find a lot more if you speak spanish. Apparently these lights are much more popular in some countries in Europe and have been used for a few years now.
Knna has posted a lot of information that you could use.

I am starting to think maybe a 250 HPS in a cooltube, and 4 PL-L's around the box hitting the sides of the plants might do it...

Wow... that's a lot of light!

I've used the HPS and I LOVE the health, color and quality that comes from straight out CFL. 3000K spectrum.

The only consideration is that the best results will come from LST/Scrog/Supercropping or Sog. I found that the light penetration is maxed out at about 6-7" into the canopy.

Considering all the screw ups that affected my first flower with these, the results were still tremendous. I'm completely blown away and can't wait for the second run with actual hydroton. (Don't use lava-rock for drip.... use it in ebb&flow only)

 

[DonkeyPunch]

Me Too! Started with 150w's and ended up with a 1000w Switchable.


You'll find a lot more if you speak spanish. Apparently these lights are much more popular in some countries in Europe and have been used for a few years now.
Knna has posted a lot of information that you could use.



Wow... that's a lot of light!

I've used the HPS and I LOVE the health, color and quality that comes from straight out CFL. 3000K spectrum.

The only consideration is that the best results will come from LST/Scrog/Supercropping or Sog. I found that the light penetration is maxed out at about 6-7" into the canopy.

Considering all the screw ups that affected my first flower with these, the results were still tremendous. I'm completely blown away and can't wait for the second run with actual hydroton. (Don't use lava-rock for drip.... use it in ebb&flow only)

1. Don't know spanish - lol I am a lazy american - but thanks for the heads up, I do know how to use google to translate into sometimes very humorous pages and will go looking

2. I also love how well the CFL plants look on here. CFL seems to provide very healthy looking plants. I do notice that CFL buds, while smaller always seem to have more of the good goo on them... At the same time I know very well what an HID can yield, and I don't see any comparison.

3. Thanks for the info on the 6-7 inches penetration. I had been reading more like 10-12. I am wondering if the lower yields I see on here in CFL have more to do with poor light placement, and if that could be improved by placement. (I am not knocking CFL - Like I said - I like the pics of what it grows, just not the weight)

 

[Hydro-Soil]

3. Thanks for the info on the 6-7 inches penetration.

Sorry, let me clarify that a bit LOL

I have lamps that are simply stuck in sockets under a shelf that has slots cut in it for ventilation and mylar wrapping paper taped to it. It's not really a reflector at all.

It still put FROST 6-7" deep into the canopy. The total penetration on the lights was a good 11-12", yes.

I'm looking forward to upgrading to something with a reflector for these lamps

 

[Tanuvan]

Sorry, let me clarify that a bit LOL

I have lamps that are simply stuck in sockets under a shelf that has slots cut in it for ventilation and mylar wrapping paper taped to it. It's not really a reflector at all.

It still put FROST 6-7" deep into the canopy. The total penetration on the lights was a good 11-12", yes.

I'm looking forward to upgrading to something with a reflector for these lamps

This is true, I suspect light penetration is really good at no greater than 11-12in. These lights are hands down the best CFL's I have seen to date.

And as far as yields go, I don't see them being a slouch even compared to HPS at 220 watts and below. Given the choice, I would definitely recommend PL-L over the 150 HPS for reasons such as better spectrum, and more even light footprint.

 

[420ish]

look on ebay for reflectors .i think they are around 15 shipped per 2 foot reflector

 

[CaptainStoner]

I did the remote ballasting a retrofit built in ballast CFL spiral on a couple of lamps last year, found that the ballasts don't even get warm, all the heat is the coil. It's a lot of messing about that is only of benefit in that the big cap in the ballast should last longer.

watercooling these lamps.. i see where you're coming from and water is a good medium but anything directly touching the lamps would incur optical losses. any other method, doesn't give you enough surface area for the water to work its magic on. You could cool the hood, but why?

conceivably you could have a sealed hood with a glass shield, and have a double wall hood with water flowing around inside it, might work but again you'd probably be better doing a cooltube-esque direct exhaust air cooled..

best to just put the socket ends of the lamps on the same side as the extraction, and aim a bit of 12v pc fan-ness at the tubes.. air won't block your light and will cool your lamps, total surface area

 

[lunatick]

is this method for making a reflector is applicable to pll's?

http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/1475.htm

will it be efficient?

 

[knna]

Its not the most efficient way of reflecting back the light, because it send it back throught the tube: light has to go throught two glasses and the phosphor layers.

Said this, its an option, very easy to do. Its most usefull when using fluorescent tubes, which has less power density, due this allows to place several tubes very close to each other.

When using PLLs, we usually dont have the problem of installing enought watts, so its better to use a conventional reflector, that distributes the light better. But at the end, any of them as going to cost about a 25% of the avalaible light, so if this method is the easiest for you, its useable.

I would suggest to use more tape than on the tutorial linked. Ideally, the open window should be about 120º wide.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I did the remote ballasting a retrofit built in ballast CFL spiral on a couple of lamps last year, found that the ballasts don't even get warm, all the heat is the coil.

We're talking about PL-L and other remote ballast CFL's that are 'Flat' loops, not a coil. The efficiency is off the charts compared to coiled CFLs.

 

[Tanuvan]

Any thoughts on 3 55w Pll 3000k and 1 Pll 6400K for flowering vs 4 3000K? For the mixed spectrum...

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Any thoughts on 3 55w Pll 3000k and 1 Pll 6400K for flowering vs 4 3000K? For the mixed spectrum...

You can see, in the photos in my 220w thread, that the second lamp is different. It's actually a 5600K.
Didn't seem to affect growth at all.


The issue I see (with my particular setup here) is that not much of that light is spreading to the rest of the cab. I grow with the lamps hoovered right to the top of the canopy. We're talking less than an inch away.

That doesn't leave much room for it to spread out and change the spectrum of the plants under the other lamps. I'd really like to switch it up and do two separate runs and log the differences with each spectrum. That's a lot of time I won't have though.... not for a few years anyway.

 

[Tanuvan]

Oh! That is a really good point Hydro. I hadn't thought about that. I wonder what the height would have to be for good dispersion. With these bulbs, one of the benefits is keeping them close to the flowers...good point indeed!

 

[fsaebud]

watercooling these lamps.. i see where you're coming from and water is a good medium but anything directly touching the lamps would incur optical losses. any other method, doesn't give you enough surface area for the water to work its magic on. You could cool the hood, but why?

conceivably you could have a sealed hood with a glass shield, and have a double wall hood with water flowing around inside it, might work but again you'd probably be better doing a cooltube-esque direct exhaust air cooled..

best to just put the socket ends of the lamps on the same side as the extraction, and aim a bit of 12v pc fan-ness at the tubes.. air won't block your light and will cool your lamps, total surface area

my idea involved having the aluminum reflector also carry water on the top of the reflector in aluminum square tubing with end caps at the ends for rubber hoses to run to a cooling tower or radiator type deal with fans(water then reflector then light) so the optical loss would not be a major factor. heat rises so you are taking the rising heat and moving it out via water that runs through the bent aluminum reflector that is in a V like bend between the two tubes of the PL-L style bulb either touching it or just above it a few cm.

The aluminum also is a great conductor of heat not as great as brass but brass doesn't have the same reflection properties the aluminum does. the beauty of this idea is that the PL-L's are so long i think there is plenty of surface area to draw the heat from with circulating cool water and we are really only talking about a very low heat these things don't put off the same heat as the HID's that is being drawn to cool it down enough for the buds not to get burned like mine did this past grow a little bit (first time growing sativa dominate they are stretchy devils).

i think properly done it would work amazing my analogy was of gas motors evolving from air cooled to water cooled sure air works just fine but water will draw more heat and you can get it right up on the source of the heat and draw it out and keep it a sealed space if you wanted to add Co2. pipe dreams that i have no intention of doing now that i have more space to grow in.

either way this idea of mine was trashed because i am not keeping my PL-L's as my flower lights therefor i don't need them to be cooled so i don't burn my top buds because i am only going to veg in the box i have.i should have tread up here tonight of my 440W PL-L set up with finished buds from 7 plants that are getting chopped tomorrow i am very impressed an d while a few of my plants were low yeilders i will be covered in smoke till my next harvest which is all i was hoping for and they appear to be quite frosty.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Hydro-soil.. yup.. PL-Ls rock, going to use them for my grow.. was just experimenting with those spirals.

fsaebud, you're right but man that's a lot of work... best way to do that would be to make the whole hood double skin.. one body skin, one internal skin which is your aluminium reflector.. put some baffle channels in the gap between the two skins, and push water through it.. but.. law of diminishing returns?

 

[lunatick]

tnx for the input knna.

 

[DonkeyPunch]

This may have been answered in this thread already, but I did not see it if it was.

Are the PL-L's for use in the UK that are at 2700k the same as the bulbs in the US.

Like what I am asking is, I know the UK has a different power standard than the US. I know I could not use a UK ballast here, but was wondering if I bought UK bulbs and had them shipped, and put them on an American ballast, if all would be good.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Are the PL-L's for use in the UK that are at 2700k the same as the bulbs in the US.

Yes, AND there are also 55w Pl-L lamps with a different type of base sold over there as well. Make sure you're getting the lamps with the 2G11 bases. They'll work just dandy