refractometer to measure brix

[c-ray]

http://www.cropservicesintl.com/ld_pricing_new.php

Voodoo - giggle

likely it works well because otherwise they would not be continuing to sell it for so many years, does not seem logical to me, with a business that is based largely on word of mouth and repeat customers.. have you or any of your colleagues used one before and if so what was your experience?

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

I make my own sea-crop from celtic sea salt and red devil lye or KOH.. it can also be made for next to no cost using ocean water, rain water and wood ash..

Sounds interesting. Care to share the recipe?

 

[c-ray]

check it out c ray...i think nutri tech stole your idea

it does make a nice little channel for the sap to run down.

I actually stole their idea / for the ghetto club
I'm thinking a hand lever press would be much nicer (non nutri tech brand of course)

 

[c-ray]

Sounds interesting. Care to share the recipe?

ya it's pretty simple

the disclaimer would be to use proper safety protocols, wear full lab gear to protect the skin and especially the eyes since we are dealing with bases (lye or KOH).. do not attempt unless completely familiar with these chemicals and their safe handling

dissolve 1/2 cup celtic sea salt (solar dried sea salt that is still moist) per litre distilled water (or just use sea water) and strain through a couple coffee filters..

make a solution of red devil lye or KOH powder in distilled water around 1:25, or just use KOH based pH-down..

slowly drip the lye water into the salt water solution until the pH stabilizes between 10.7-11.0.. I just pour a bit at a time into a coffee filter or 2 and let that drip into the salt water, agitating the salt water every so often

then just let it settle out overnight and siphon off the sodium rich brine keeping the white fluffy fraction at the bottom.. optionally it can be washed with distilled water a few times to get most of the sodium out, I normally don't bother with this step because there is not much left

this can be used as a soil drench or foliar feed up to 2% concentration.. I use more like 0.1% in the res and 5-10 ml/litre in the foliar application.. it can also be used as a seed soak 1 hour @ 2% just before sowing..

the olde school way is a little bit more involved, but I can describe it if someone wants to try it out

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

I see thanks. My ph meter is gathering dust and the battery is dead. Can i eyeball/guess when its ready?

I have used sea water collected from a tidal river as a foliar and drench. Diluted 10 -1 with my tap water. Now it was very salty but not 100% so lets say 15 -1...

My plants showed no negative signs from a foliar (diluted right down) or from 2 soil drenches at the 15 - 1 ratio.

Indeed my fungus gnat problem appears to be solved which was the intention as well as the Italian study on tomatoes having more micronutrients and the like...which is why i settled on 10%.

Sodium would appear to not be a problem as long as it doesn't accumulate too much and/or the soil dries right out.

It would be interesting to do a side by side experiment.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Man... I'm gonna have to break out the hydrometer!

sea-90 is a dry (dead) salt full of sodium and chloride

sea-crop is a live ocean water concentrate that has it's sodium reduced to 5%, and contains waters of hydration, marine humic substances, phytoplankton etc

I make my own sea-crop from celtic sea salt and red devil lye or KOH.. it can also be made for next to no cost using ocean water, rain water and wood ash..

Hmm... curious about how Sea Crop can be alive. It sounds as though it's almost unfiltered. Must research that aspect more, thanks. I did see some interesting results using the Sea-90 on my tomatoes and squashes with BER.

Why Celtic sea salt? If you were to listen to some folks, all sea salts are exactly the same. Then again, if you were to listen to them, you should be able to buy some of that solar dried sea salt, throw it into some water adjusted to 1.025 (specific gravity) and voila, you, too, can keep any saltwater animal you wish.

Have you worked with Sea-90 at all? I've found it does have a salty flavor, but it's not intense. May have to get that hydrometer and mix it up like I would a batch of seawater and see what specific gravity I can get out of it, then see what I have to measure actual salinity.

 

[VortexPower420]

sea salt talk I love it....

c-ray making ORMUS... Nice

Saw a blurb in Acres about a Hydroponic-farm in Egypt growing a full array of veggies on sea salts.

I have more to say but the key board is dieing damn wireless

Timbuktu

 

[c-ray]

I've never user sea-90, but I have used celtic sea salt on plants quite extensively.. most plants do adapt to increasing sodium levels over time, but they can only take so much before they start to yellow and burn ime / hard to get the volume of traces that is possible with sea-crop

 

[OBSoul33t]

great info here , grabbed a quality brix meter and have been trying different recipes to see how they affect brix , coco using 2 different nute lines about to be 4 , 3 different organic soils , different feed programs , foliar with kelp , calcium , spray n grow , thrive alive , sea-crop, compost tea and caps tea . i take readings before any application of soil feed or foliar and then an hour after again after 6 hours and 24 hours . lol no matter what i have tried i get the same brix readings .. by all regards most of the plants look amazingly healthy but all brix readings are really low between 5-6 . the meter calibrates fine and when i check the brix of other things i get different readings ..
c-ray i would be interested in what you find to raise the levels ?
plant sap is mostly similar ranging from 5.5-5.7 which is also low and would suggest i need more K however based on the wide variety of soils and feeds i don't think K would be a problem across the board ..

trying to make sense of this

btw i don't foliar with all of those products at same time i spray them individually..

 

[SeaMaiden]

I've never user sea-90, but I have used celtic sea salt on plants quite extensively.. most plants do adapt to increasing sodium levels over time, but they can only take so much before they start to yellow and burn ime / hard to get the volume of traces that is possible with sea-crop

I'm mostly curious as to how and why you landed specifically on the Celtic salt.

These sea salts behave much differently from the dry mixes used to make sea/saltwater for living organisms, and the main difference I see and feel is that if water is dropped on them there is no reaction, no heat is generated. At this point, in fact, I'm rather curious about my good old Reef Crystals, Instant Ocean, and others.... hmmmmm...

Also, you mentioned the Sea-Crop being alive. Literally?

 

[YosemiteSam]

great info here , grabbed a quality brix meter and have been trying different recipes to see how they affect brix , coco using 2 different nute lines about to be 4 , 3 different organic soils , different feed programs , foliar with kelp , calcium , spray n grow , thrive alive , sea-crop, compost tea and caps tea . i take readings before any application of soil feed or foliar and then an hour after again after 6 hours and 24 hours . lol no matter what i have tried i get the same brix readings .. by all regards most of the plants look amazingly healthy but all brix readings are really low between 5-6 . the meter calibrates fine and when i check the brix of other things i get different readings ..
c-ray i would be interested in what you find to raise the levels ?
plant sap is mostly similar ranging from 5.5-5.7 which is also low and would suggest i need more K however based on the wide variety of soils and feeds i don't think K would be a problem across the board ..

trying to make sense of this

btw i don't foliar with all of those products at same time i spray them individually..

the four main elements that drive brix are Ca, B, Mg and P. All of your bottled nutes are short on Ca period...they like to use both CaNO3 and KNO3, the second you do that you cannot hit high brix levels

On your organic soils you want to control the Ca:Mg ratio...you want something like 4-7:1 depending on how much clay is in your soil.

The other thing that will reduce brix is too much K (another problem of bottled nutes).

Albrecht ratios are the key to high brix.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Was Rosebud high in nitrates? I don't think so.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I don't know what Rosebud is. Some of the stuff that does not have high nitrate N has lots of urea...a terrible choice to add to soil because of the breakdown process. If you use it make sure to complex it with humic acid.

I may have posted this before...but good video about brix

http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/blog/2009/09/the-refractometer-an-indispensable-monitoring-tool/

 

[SeaMaiden]

For some reason I was brought to think of Citizen Kane. Complete and total non sequitur, I know, but I saw the nitrates and then thought about roses and there it was, Rosebud, whispered in my head.

Do you mean additional humics to what may be being produced in the soil? And if so, do you have anything specifically in mind? I can't recall if you've mentioned before any specific product. I do recall that video, though.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Yea...I would mix them together before feeding. Tie the urea up before it volatilizes. Any high quality humic will work.

 

[VortexPower420]

So I just recently broke out the refactometer and was thinking I would get a higher number then I got.. Right inline with what OBsoul was getting. About 5- 5.5. The highest I got was a 7.

I was very disappointed. I got the same on a few different strains and different places on the plant and different times of day.

My plants look great not a sign of deficiency on them and I had thrips bad, I was spraying and then stopped because I ran out of neem. Well the thrips were starting to come back, that was right around the time Imade my own soil mix and stopped using bottled nutes (General Organics) and went to all herbal teas, sprout teas, aloe and humics. I can't say they are completely gone but now I have to look for damage.

I was really hoping for a higher number.

So I was thinking maybe the plants are just pumping all the sugars into the flowers which I don't want to take down or press for obvious reasons to see their numbers.

I went to a couple of clones I transplanted about 5 days ago from some friends. They are not in the most Ideal conditions so they are lagging a little. Also I know my friends used superthrive on them during cloning plus what ever else botani-crap has throw at them.

Well I pressed one of those leaves and got a 9.5. I was shocked.

What do you guys more experienced with these things have to say about this?

I know this is kind of uncharted ground in some respects and this is only a tool to gauge what is happening and is very variable, but is there any base numbers you guys have seen?
Just curious, I plan on making a chart when I get things a little more synchronized her in my garden.

Thanks all.

Timbuktu

 

[W89]

you need to get yourself some of them nemo toads....

 

[VortexPower420]

C-ray's two spoons and a vice grip works like a charm. 1 medium to large leaf needed make into a ball, put between spoons. Volia. A couple of drops of juice.

Thanks C-ray for that tip.

Timbuktu

 

[c-ray]

we are seeing 10-16 degrees brix in vegging plants atm, most are around 14 ..I am actually expecting higher numbers in flo because the plants are not getting much P atm since I am using the same compost on all plantys and have a number of early outdoor plantys that will go into flower if their P:Ca ratio leans too far to the P side... I could prob drive the brix up a few more degrees with foliars but have been too busy past few weeks to apply foliars

we have a 3 moms with lots of foliage that get tested every day or two, the standards of the room, and I find the brix to be pretty stable.. I went away for a week and had a buddy watering the plants and the brix went down 3-4 degrees on average, I forgot to tell him to pH adjust the water so plants were getting ~7.5 pH water, so only pH 6.4 water from now on

VP I will run your mix through a spreadsheet I have set up to analyze mix numbers, see if anything looks off

 

[W89]

what do you use to pH your water?