Ratio for green dragon?

[adron]

I've got 2.3g of good bud to experiment with, nothing amazing but gives a good solid high and has some visible crystals.

I'm planning on trying to find some 75% ~ 85% alcohol content citrus extract of some sort.

I'm going to go with the curing over time method first, not going to try and speed up the process just yet.

Anyone know what my approximate ratio should be (amount of extract to use)?

 

[adron]

Nobody has any idea?

 

[grasspass]

For that much herb , I would only use about 1-2 ounces. I take 1/8 of an ounce of herb chopped up added to 3 ounces of everclear [190 proof]. After your done letting it sit for about 3 weeks , you can let some of the alcohol evaporate to make the tincture stronger. I like to bake the chopped up herb for about 5 minutes on a piece of aluminum foil at 300 f before adding it to the drinking alcohol.

 

[adron]

I like to bake the chopped up herb for about 5 minutes on a piece of aluminum foil at 300 f before adding it to the drinking alcohol.

Is this for decarboxylation? Can this be accomplished better in a microwave?

 

[grasspass]

Yes decarb to activate thc. I don't know if its necessary. I haven't tried a microwave . The end product for me is put in a little tincture bottle with dropper. I use a whole dropper full, put in a drink. I think its about half or quarter of a teaspoon for a dose . Experiment . Make sure you use only drinkable alcohol when making a tincture.

 

[adron]

Yes I wasn't planning on using any isopropyl, I don't want to go blind

I was just going to pick up some citrus extract used in baking, there is high alcohol content and it should make the flavor interesting in the end.

The only reason I was thinking about using a microwave, as some suggest, is because it seems like you wouldn't have to worry about losing any THC to combustion... but I suppose a microwave could heat water molecules to a point where it would flash the plant material...

One other question, you said you let some of the alcohol evaporate off afterward... since the THC is binding to the alcohol molecules, or that is the goal anyhow, if you let alcohol evaporate off, won't it bring some THC with it, thus wasting it?

 

[Papulz]

if your starting with something thats 150 plus proof already, you can use as little as an ounce of liquor.. i wouldnt recommend the citrus extract as your primary alcohol source unless thats your only option. I think the pure extract will have WAY too much flavor to be enjoyed unless heavily diluted. i would use high proof grain alcohol personally.

no heat is required in the process, however some people heat it to aid in the efficiency of the extraction and to make some of the active ingredients more easily absorbed for people with different physiology.

i would not recommend a microwave as it heats unevenly and can easily cook the magic out of your material..

ALCOHOL EVAPORATION - THIS IS DANGEROUS!
no evaping the alcohol does not remove any thc, if done correctly. you can purge the active goodies right out of the solution by heating it up too much.
However, someone were to take green dragon, filter it, then purge out all the alcohol you would be left with a low quality hash oil.

hash oil is made by stripping the oils in the plant off with a chemical solvent, then evaporating off your solvent in order to recover an extracted oil.

hence, how i perceive green dragon or "tincture" is basically as hash oil in solution.

as a final note, i make my tinctures with hash usually, and using a ratio of 10 grams of ethanol to 1 gram of source material works fine for me, a dose of tincture for me ends up being something like 2 grams of solution which is something like a half teaspoon. I place these doses into a shot glass and mix in something tasty with it just prior to ingesting.

 

[adron]

if your starting with something thats 150 plus proof already, you can use as little as an ounce of liquor.. i wouldnt recommend the citrus extract as your primary alcohol source unless thats your only option. I think the pure extract will have WAY too much flavor to be enjoyed unless heavily diluted. i would use high proof grain alcohol personally.

If you're talking about flavor as the only concern here, then it does not matter to me because I will wind up mixing it into a small cup of something, juice/soda/beer. The reason why I want the citrus extract is twofold, I'm not a big drinker and I will have a lot of left over (useless) alcohol if I only use 1-3 oz of what I buy, I'm thinking the containers of citrus extract will be relatively small, and perhaps even higher alcohol content than what can be found legally at liquor stores in the state I live in.

Also, I fancy myself a chef, so strong/bold flavors do not offend my palette easily.

no heat is required in the process, however some people heat it to aid in the efficiency of the extraction and to make some of the active ingredients more easily absorbed for people with different physiology.

i would not recommend a microwave as it heats unevenly and can easily cook the magic out of your material..

An electric oven does not heat evenly either, in fact I would -think- that for material that is not thick and dense (like a roast), a microwave probably distributes heat MORE evenly than an electric oven, unless you insulate the substance you are putting into the oven in some material or container that would re-distribute absorbed heat more evenly. Aluminum foil probably does this somewhat, but ideally I think something ceramic or clay might be even better.

ALCOHOL EVAPORATION - THIS IS DANGEROUS!
no evaping the alcohol does not remove any thc, if done correctly. you can purge the active goodies right out of the solution by heating it up too much.
However, someone were to take green dragon, filter it, then purge out all the alcohol you would be left with a low quality hash oil.

"If done correctly" - what is the incorrect way? I wasn't planning on adding any heat this first time around, save the decarb step. Alcohol should evaporate if you just let it sit around with the container open. If I decided to let some of the alcohol evaporate, would this not be sufficient?

 

[Papulz]

the flavor is still likely be too concentrated with an extract, but try it out and see how it goes i suppose.. the alcohol has already used some of its solvent power in taking up the oils giving it the flavor in it.. so its not as effective of a solvent comparably to an alcohol that has nothing in it. if you live in a state that restricts sale of 190 or 191 proof grain alcohol, like i do, you can always use the locally available 151 proof (75.5%) grain alcohol or some folks choose rum for a mellower flavor.

your right, ovens dont heat very evenly either.. but they heat in an entirely different fashion. Generally speaking, if you want an even distribution of temp on something as temp sensitive as this, a double boiler would be a good choice.

incorrect way would be the use of too much heat. as i say previously "you can purge the active goodies right out of the solution by heating it up too much. " THC and other active chems vaporize at certain temps, hence we have vaporizers for some.


when im extracting with heat, or even purging with heat i stay very low with the temps around 200 or lower generally.

again, your correct alcohol does evaporate when left out in a room long enough.. unfortunately purging a half a liter of alcohol takes quite a while when your solely using unaided evaporation. Remember also that if for example you are using anhydrous ethanol to extract, the pure alcohol will pull water out of the air into your solution as it sits out in the open.

if you want to reduce volume and concentrate your extract via evaporation this would work fine, also light heat will aid the process. Remember when your evaporating that surface area is your friend.

 

[adron]

the flavor is still likely be too concentrated with an extract, but try it out and see how it goes i suppose.. the alcohol has already used some of its solvent power in taking up the oils giving it the flavor in it.. so its not as effective of a solvent comparably to an alcohol that has nothing in it. if you live in a state that restricts sale of 190 or 191 proof grain alcohol, like i do, you can always use the locally available 151 proof (75.5%) grain alcohol or some folks choose rum for a mellower flavor.

I'm not sure if I'll be able to find 151 grain alcohol - where would I try? And wouldn't rum or any other flavored liquor for that matter have the same story as the extract in terms of the alcohol having already used some of its solvent power?

your right, ovens dont heat very evenly either.. but they heat in an entirely different fashion. Generally speaking, if you want an even distribution of temp on something as temp sensitive as this, a double boiler would be a good choice.

incorrect way would be the use of too much heat. as i say previously "you can purge the active goodies right out of the solution by heating it up too much. " THC and other active chems vaporize at certain temps, hence we have vaporizers for some.


when im extracting with heat, or even purging with heat i stay very low with the temps around 200 or lower generally.

again, your correct alcohol does evaporate when left out in a room long enough.. unfortunately purging a half a liter of alcohol takes quite a while when your solely using unaided evaporation. Remember also that if for example you are using anhydrous ethanol to extract, the pure alcohol will pull water out of the air into your solution as it sits out in the open.

if you want to reduce volume and concentrate your extract via evaporation this would work fine, also light heat will aid the process. Remember when your evaporating that surface area is your friend.

Thanks for your insights. It seems like you know a lot more about alcohol than I do, looking forward to putting some of that knowledge into practice. Again though, my primary obstacle is what to use for the source of alcohol...

Edit:
Also, would there be a problem with throwing some stems into the mix? I mean, I'm sure they won't contribute much but they were from some really primo stuff, I'm sure there's some crystals stuck to them.

 

[Papulz]

anything other than pure grain alcohol will be less effective as a solvent yes. big liquor stores usually carry the 151. if it comes to the point where you cannot find 151, you can try something around 90-100 proof, basically the higher you can get the better. Also, since it wont be 'everclear' at that point you'll probably end up needing to look at vodka.

stems work as source material absolutely. the higher the quality of anything you put into the process, the better you can expect the outcome. even if its "trash" like stems. stems do of course have lower potency and will likely contribute a bit more plant waxes etc that arent active. nonetheless, it wont hurt.

the crystals your talking about are "glandular trichomes" or trichs as many would call them.. you can use either your bare eye or a magnifying loupe/lense or even a pocket microscope to see these glands on the outside surface of herbal material many of these glands contain the oils which we all love so. - try typing trichome into google and looking at the image tab.

hence, when you either isolate mechanically like sieving with screen or making bubblehash, you are isolating the glands which are rich in oil - this is what you want from the plant, the rest of the material present in bud is extraneous for our medicinal or recreational purposes.

when making tincture you are chemically dissolving the oils out of the material you put in, and then drinking that oil mixed with alcohol (the solvent) in the form of green dragon.

 

[adron]

Right, right, that's the part I get, so I was definitely leaning toward throwing the stems in beforehand, just wanted to ask to be sure. Sometimes you hear rumors.

So your recommendation is go to the liquor store and ask basically in this order:

151 grain alcohol -> 151 rum -> 90-100 proof vodka

?

 

[Papulz]

yup good luck.. dont worry about having a bunch left over of the booze, even if you get a .75 liter for 20$ it never goes bad and it has plenty of uses.

 

[adron]

Ok man, thanks a bunch, I'm going to start making some purchases this week probably. For the mixing container I'm going to look for an amber glass jar, and for storage probably something slightly smaller but amber tinted and made of glass as well, hopefully with a pipette in it.

Again thanks for the info, moderator(s) might want to consider stickying this thread, I don't see any other green dragon threads at the moment and this one has some good information if you're just looking to try the slow method.

Last question, for insight on the usability of the final product:

To grasspass and Papulz, what potency is your respective tinctures? How strong of a high/how long does it last/what kind of tolerance do you each have?

Thanks fellas.

 

[Papulz]

my tolerance for these purposes is inconsequential.. because its astronomical and isnt useful for normal calculations. My tincture comes out at about a 4-6 hour experience.. and is made to suit an average daily or frequent smoker. if the dose is for someone who does not smoke or uses very infrequently, i usually use half the amount that would be called for in dosing a daily toker.

effects are generally very similar to any other edible.. body stone. However, depending on the source material and the means by which that you process it... you can end up with some more cerebral results.

check out www.specialtybottle.com for the amber glassware and vials with droppers etc.

you can make the tincture and store it in one bottle too.

 

[adron]

Hey, thanks a lot for the site recommendation. I probably will just order off of there.

My tolerance I think could be considered average these days. I can smoke a small bowl (3 hitter) of good stuff and be high for 30-45 mins, with residuals lasting up to 2 hours. I can still make 1/8th of an ounce last me an entire month, smoking once every night, out of the same normal small bowl, nothing fancy.

Compared to some I still might be considered a casual smoker, but I've noticed my tolerance slowly increase, though I take breaks to try and keep it relatively low.

Keeps my costs down

 

[RandyMarsh]

Has anyone had much luck making it with the faster method? The one I'm referring to is described in detail here:

http://www.greendragon.lhosting.info/

I'm tempted to try it out, but I've heard mixed results. From 1 drop destroyers to complete duds. Also, I've heard skepticism for the temp to cook at, here he says 325 for 5 minutes, though I've heard others swear that it's too much and 200 for 20 is a better way to go. Anyone had experience with this?

 

[Papulz]

faster extraction - i boil my tincture at just under 200 degree fahrenheit for around 2-3 hours total, switching to fresh solvent once. i extract my tincture from granulated concentrate however.

i use a round bottom boiling flask, with some tamer tabs and a vapor condensing column, then i heat with either an oil or water bath.